I JUST HAVE TO GO PRESBYTERIAN

[Earth Wind and Fire]

While I disagree with lots of Presbyterian dogma, I do not see any true baptist churches in my neck of the woods so I am forced to conclude that to satisfy my need for a church that I will have to swallow my pride & start going to the local OPC church down the road from where I live. And I dread it...the horror of having to deal with paedo/ sacramental types frankly bothers me.

 

[Smyth]

While I disagree with lots of Presbyterian dogma, I do not see any true baptist churches in my neck of the woods so I am forced to conclude that to satisfy my need for a church that I will have to swallow my pride & start going to the local OPC church down the road from where I live. And I dread it...the horror of having to deal with paedo/ sacramental types frankly bothers me.

They're probably very tolerant of Believers Baptism. If you see them sprinkle a baby, just think of it as a dedication.

 

[utilyan]

While I disagree with lots of Presbyterian dogma, I do not see any true baptist churches in my neck of the woods so I am forced to conclude that to satisfy my need for a church that I will have to swallow my pride & start going to the local OPC church down the road from where I live. And I dread it...the horror of having to deal with paedo/ sacramental types frankly bothers me.

Going to a church you totally disagree with is good for you, Cause then it takes ACTUAL faith in God to keep going.

You set an example. If God put you out there it could mean your calling. Don't call this a curse, find the blessing in this.

You can't find a Baptist Church? Brother YOU ARE THE BAPTIST CHURCH.

Look I'm a Catholic rooting for you. You need to stand up like God has your back. Be respectful and kind, have mercy on those people. Learn to appreciate those people. Learn to love those people and pray for them and pray on their behalf. You should talk to their pastor too be open about your situation.

 

[The Biblicist]

While I disagree with lots of Presbyterian dogma, I do not see any true baptist churches in my neck of the woods so I am forced to conclude that to satisfy my need for a church that I will have to swallow my pride & start going to the local OPC church down the road from where I live. And I dread it...the horror of having to deal with paedo/ sacramental types frankly bothers me.

You have got to be kidding me right? Out of one side of their mouth they preach the gospel and out of the other side of their mouth they repudiate the gospel by their ordinances and membership requirements. They are only a partial reformed Roman Catholic church. Any Baptist church that at least had the fundamental truth of justification by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone without works - meaning they embrace eternal security of true born again believers is better than jumping on to the Roman Catholic bandwagon. It is far easier to explain to your wife and kids the inconsistencies of the Baptist church than the flagrant repudiation of the very essence of what is required to make a church a New Testament church - born again membership, ordinances for believers only. In essence making such a transition would be a repudiation of the faith once delivered. Any pedobaptism congregation is by essence, a congregation of unregenerates as their membership is primarily composed from infancy not from personal individual new birth or faith.

 

[Smyth]

Any pedobaptism congregation is by essence, a congregation of unregenerates as their membership is primarily composed from infancy not from personal individual new birth or faith.

What you say is untrue. Pedeobaptists believe in regeneration, faith, and rebirth.

 

[The Biblicist]

What you say is untrue. Pedeobaptists believe in regeneration, faith, and rebirth.

I never said they didn't. I said their ordinances and membership qualifications repudiate the gospel and that is a fact. Their membership qualifications make them a non-church of Christ as the basic fundamental demand of Christ to be a true church is its membership requirements that every member be a professing child of God by personal repentance and faith - no proxy believers.

Every pedobaptism church is by essence composed of members from infancy - thus unregenerates. If they eventually are born again, they need baptism as baptism is not for unbelieving infants and thus no true church of Christ is composed of unbelieving infants.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

You have got to be kidding me right? Out of one side of their mouth they preach the gospel and out of the other side of their mouth they repudiate the gospel by their ordinances and membership requirements. They are only a partial reformed Roman Catholic church. Any Baptist church that at least had the fundamental truth of justification by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone without works - meaning they embrace eternal security of true born again believers is better than jumping on to the Roman Catholic bandwagon. It is far easier to explain to your wife and kids the inconsistencies of the Baptist church than the flagrant repudiation of the very essence of what is required to make a church a New Testament church - born again membership, ordinances for believers only. In essence making such a transition would be a repudiation of the faith once delivered. Any pedobaptism congregation is by essence, a congregation of unregenerates as their membership is primarily composed from infancy not from personal individual new birth or faith.

I'm as serious as a heart attack Mark. I know full well & agree with your evaluation....and to add insult to injury, they were the ones who told me matter of fact, that my baby (who died in infancy) was in hell......long, long ,long story.

But what am I to do, travel an hour to an hr & 1/2 to go to a Baptist church who I cant commit to because of distance (as well as my economic concerns ....I drive an 03 Honda which has 187,000 Miles now. But more importantly, I would not be there for all the things I need to be there for. The OPC is not even a mile away so I can be there consistently and interact, so at least.....

In any event, I don't see the harm in speaking with the pastor....I find him to be very dedicated & honest.

 

[The Biblicist]

I'm as serious as a heart attack Mark. I know full well & agree your evaluation....and to add insult to injury, they were the ones who told me matter of fact, that my baby (who died in infancy) was in hell......long, long ,long story.

But what am I to do, travel an hour to an hr & 1/2 to go to a Baptist church who I cant commit to because of distance (as well as my economic concerns ....I drive an 03 Honda which has 187,000 Miles now. But more importantly, I would not be there for all the things I need to be there for. The OPC is not even a mile away so I can be there consistently and interact, so at least.....

In any event, I don't see the harm in speaking with the pastor....I find him to be very dedicated & honest.

To expose your family and yourself to that kind of constant teaching and condition is worse than not attending church at all. It is better to conduct Bible study and worship in our own home than to enter into the synogogue of Satan. I am not saying they are all lost but I am saying they support a church membership that is all lost. It is better to attend ONCE A MONTH at a reasonably sound New Testament church and other times simply worship at home then to immerse you and your family into that kind of influence.

You may not be able to afford going every Sunday, but twice or even once a month is better than that option. Unless, you are an outright heretic, sooner or later such a church is going to see the need and attempt to meet that need.

 

[Adonia]

I'm as serious as a heart attack Mark. I know full well & agree your evaluation....and to add insult to injury, they were the ones who told me matter of fact, that my baby (who died in infancy) was in hell......long, long ,long story.

But what am I to do, travel an hour to an hr & 1/2 to go to a Baptist church who I cant commit to because of distance (as well as my economic concerns ....I drive an 03 Honda which has 187,000 Miles now. But more importantly, I would not be there for all the things I need to be there for. The OPC is not even a mile away so I can be there consistently and interact, so at least.....

In any event, I don't see the harm in speaking with the pastor....I find him to be very dedicated & honest.

Good for you. I understand you will be attending services there, but will you actually become a member? I have in the past attended other Christian denomination services when I couldn't easily get to a Catholic Church, but actually joining another one would be quite a different matter entirely.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I never said they didn't. I said their ordinances and membership qualifications repudiate the gospel and that is a fact. Their membership qualifications make them a non-church of Christ as the basic fundamental demand of Christ to be a true church is its membership requirements that every member be a professing child of God by personal repentance and faith - no proxy believers.

Every pedobaptism church is by essence composed of members from infancy - thus unregenerates. If they eventually are born again, they need baptism as baptism is not for unbelieving infants and thus no true church of Christ is composed of unbelieving infants.

Mark, Im sorry but the current state throws a plethora of "Proxy Churches" at us probably because that's what most want....IE Luke Warm & Carnal membership.....NOT True HS Believers. See what I want is to feel a part of a very bible believing church thats in the community where I live & can contribute, not a hoax/proxy church.

BTW, most of these OPC people were not raised in the Presby Church, not in NJ at least. They are mostly EX-Catholics. In fact the entire state is mostly Catholic to some iteration. So when they leave the RCC, they go to liberal churches (But in the back of their heads they must go to church or they are not going to heaven.....thus they equate church with heaven (not going is a mortal sin) & there are many many liberal churches that play to that fear & guilt, VS developing disciples---(where I want to be).

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

To expose your family and yourself to that kind of constant teaching and condition is worse than not attending church at all. It is better to conduct Bible study and worship in our own home than to enter into the synogogue of Satan. I am not saying they are all lost but I am saying they support a church membership that is all lost. It is better to attend ONCE A MONTH at a reasonably sound New Testament church and other times simply worship at home then to immerse you and your family into that kind of influence.

You may not be able to afford going every Sunday, but twice or even once a month is better than that option. Unless, you are an outright heretic, sooner or later such a church is going to see the need and attempt to meet that need.

Yes, but they dont want me there once....they want full engagement ...esp for membership.

 

[The Biblicist]

Yes, but they dont want me there once....they want full engagement ...esp for membership.

So, why do you have to be a member just to attend? Attend, and build a relationship and things will work out.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Good for you. I understand you will be attending services there, but will you actually become a member? I have in the past attended other Christian denomination services when I couldn't easily get to a Catholic Church, but actually joining another one would be quite a different matter entirely.

I actually dont want to join....but Ive not spoken to the Presbyterian Pastor about it. However if the Baptist Pastor (a distance away) would be willing to allow attendance once a month, then I would have to take a hard look at it.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

So, why do you have to be a member just to attend? Attend, and build a relationship and things will work out.

Recently my brother was excommunicated for not attending regularly....and he was a youth pastor in Pennsylvania until a few years ago. I know of two pastors (Baptist) that don't consider distance & time constraints as a legitimate excuse.......both have told me that if I was committed then Id find a way.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

They're probably very tolerant of Believers Baptism. If you see them sprinkle a baby, just think of it as a dedication.

I appreciate what you are saying but sprinkling baby's is abhorrent to me. See, Ive seen to much of this infant baby baptism, Walking the isle & saying a prayer to tell me that there is a ton of souls slipping through the cracks. Dedications don't do it for me, nor does early childhood conversions (before the age of reason). Wouldn't it really be better to allow the HS to capture your heart & soul thus changing you in a genuine conversion experience? Then you live your life differently----you live heart, body & soul for Christ----primarily cause you love him.

 

[Smyth]

I abhor nothing anyone does in faith in Christ. I might disagree with it, but I don't abhor it.

Presbyterians see Baptism as the New Testament version of Circumcision. It's not that they've decided to compromise with anything outside of faith. For a church to allow membership for married homosexuals, that would be something to abhor. For someone to deny that Jesus is the Christ, that is something to abhor.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I abhor nothing anyone does in faith in Christ. I might disagree with it, but I don't abhor it.

Presbyterians see Baptism as the New Testament version of Circumcision. It's not that they've decided to compromise with anything outside of faith. For a church to allow membership for married homosexuals, that would be something to abhor. For someone to deny that Jesus is the Christ, that is something to abhor.

we each have our own interpetition of doctrine. Like I visited one of these Bible churches & found it to be so liberal & LGBT favorable to accepting homosexuals that it turned my stomach (they had recently converted two lavatories to be gender neutral......WOW was my reaction & then whats next. So I will not going back there. Also I disliked the fact that they never sang any hymns ----only complementary music. But that's me. Also please remember that I agree with the Biblicist on his take on Presbyterians....I only think its fair to at least speak to the pastor. Ive just been avoiding it because of a past experience with him that went horribly wrong & for that I abhor them.

 

[Salty]

Any reason you could not help start a Baptist church?

 

[pilgrim_99]

As someone who has experience with the OPC, I do recommend you meeting with the pastor to get your questions answered. I do know that if you aren't a member of an evangelical church, they will not allow you to take the Lord's Supper. (If they do, they aren't following the denomination's rules.) I don't know your family situation. But I know of at least one OPC pastor who threatened to suspend a couple from the Lord's Supper if they didn't have their child baptized. The OPC tends to be quite a bit more strict on these things than the PCA.

I don't know whether or not you are a Sabbatarian, but they generally are strict on that as well. No eating out on Sunday, no unnecessary work, maybe no watching football and so on.

You might see if you can go to the far away Baptist church when able but attend the OPC congregation when that isn't possible. But some Baptist churches (as well as others) will expect you to be there every time the door opens, so that might not be possible. Also, explain your situation to the Baptist church that is far away. I've heard of churches that will actually provide financial support for transportation, etc. for those who live far away. A lot of Calvinistic Baptist churches are basically commuter churches, with much of the congregation driving 30 minutes to over an hour one way to get there. (If you're not Calvinistic, then you really must be in dire straits to consider attending an OPC congregation!)

Since you are considering attending an OPC congregation, I assume you consider yourself to be a "Reformed Baptist." You might also consider contacting ARBCA or F.I.R.E. to make sure there aren't others in your area who aren't interested in seeing a "true" church planted. It may be that there are others in your area that are traveling long distances. I assume you have checked the directories on 9 Marks, Founders, Farese and other RB sites? Founders has a "Founders Friends" category as well as a church category. But some of it may be out of date.

 

[The American Dream]

I grew up in a PCA church, and there is no justification for going Presbyterian. The PCUSA is apostate for recognizing same sex marriages. The Cumberlands ordain women pastors All Presbyterians sprinkle infants, totally unscriptural and a pagan ritual of the RCC. They have hierarchies that are totally at odds with the NT churches in the Bible. They practice elder rule which has no Biblical foundation. They believe the Universal Church has some function on earth when God's work is carried out by the local church. They say creeds Sunday after Sunday which were written my man, and therefore flawed. They say them so often the words become meaningless and the creed turns into a chant. They waste money on presbyteries, synods and general assemblies which could go to missionaries and to help the poor. They believe at the Lords Supper the Lord as a spiritual presence, while the Bible says its symbolic, the key phrase being "do this in remembrance of Me." The hierarchy interferes with choosing pastor, choosing Sunday School material, forming the budget for local churches, and approving upgrades and repair of the church.