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Featured The Difference between the Old, New and Everlasting Covenants

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by The Biblicist, Jul 25, 2016.

  1. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    I think what most overlook is that the "first" and "second" or "old" and "new" are VISIBLE PUBLIC HUMAN ADMINISTRATIONS of these covenants whereas the former covenant or covenants of promise are purely divine administrations. Hebrews 9:1 makes this abundantly clear. The "old" and "new" have a very public visible human administrative aspect. Both have a specific point of origin in time. Both have public qualified ordinances. Both were sanctified by shedding of blood. Both have pubic qualified ministries, mission and scriptures pertaining to each and both are limited in their future extent. The Old continued to what it anticipated was fulfilled - Christ on the cross. The New continues to the "end of the age" (Mt. 28:19-20).

    Certainly the "new" is better than the "old" in many ways as a visible public human administration. However, neither is the completion or fulfillment of the "everlasting covenant" as that covenant is not completed until what we see in Genesis 1:26 as a sinless new world is recovered once again in another sinless new world (Rev. 21-22:4).

    Now Roman Catholicism sees the obvious visible human administrative element in these two covenants and claims to be the visible administrator in an effectual and legislative sense. Therefore they claim that salvation is actually obtained and applied by the church and through its administration of the ordinance just as it was through the levitical administration under the old covenant.

    However, there is no actual literal visible administration of salvation under either covenant by the human administration involved. The institutional and public human administration in both covenants is confined to declarative and ceremonial in both covenants. In both covenants the actual administration of salvation is totally by divine administration according to the "blood of the everlasting covenant" or the Trinue administration of salvation directly to God's elect under both covenants.

    Here is the issue that most fail to deal with. Both covenants have an authorized visible human administration (Heb. 9:1). Both have public houses of worship. Both have a qualified public ministry. Both have scriptures. Both have public qualified ordinances. Both have a qualified commission. Both have a public immersion in the Spirit. Both have chosen prophets in their point of origin (Moses, Christ).

    The problem is to distinguish between what function the human administration plays in these covenant administrations versus what function God serves through these administrations.

    In the former, the human administrative function was not designed to obtain life (Gal. 3:21) but to serve as a school master to educate the individual Jew with regard to the nature of sin and then lead them to faith in the gospel of Christ as expressed in the sacrificial ceremonial types. The actual fulfillment of both purpose within the individual's heart (recognition of sin and recognition of Christ and coming to him by faith) was purely due to the divine administration of the "everlasting covenant."

    In the new, the human administrative function is purely declarative. The ordinances are ceremonial or pictorial, based upon a much clearer presentation of the gospel of the "everlasting covenant" because of the fulfillment at Calvary and the empty grave accompanied with apostolic scriptures.

    I am afraid that most commentators ignore the human adminstrative aspect of each covenant administration because they are not able to separate it from the divine administrative aspect or in reaction to Roman Catholicism.

    However, those of us who have a proper understanding of the true nature of the New Testament church and its ordinances, ministry and mission need not fear or fail to properly dissect the human from the divine adminstration aspects in each covenant.

    The "everlasting covenant" is all about the ultimate restoral of paradise lost. What God began in Eden is finished in the New heaven and earth. The covenants of "promise" are progressive manifestations of that everlasting covenant along with progressive revelations of the gospel promise in "seed" form first given in Gen. 3:15. The "old" or "first" covenant as a HUMAN ADMINISTRATION is instructive and declarative in nature while actual literal individual salvation is wholly by the divine administration of the everlasting covenant. The same is true to the "second" or "new" covenant as a HUMAN ADMINISTRATION except what the first anticipates the second declares to be fulfilled. The second is the superior covenant, not because salvation is secured by the human administrative aspect, any more than under the former covenant, but because this covenant administration's declarative function stands on the fulfillment of the promised seed and anticipates the coming prophetic fulfillment of the "everlasting covenant" in a new heaven and earth, thus restoring paradise lost.
     
  2. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    The "new" covenant administration gives the clearest declaration of the terms of the "everlasting covenant" yet revealed among men. And in that sense, it is the ultimate working out of the "everlasting covenant" in visible manifestation than any covenant hither to. Yet, it is a time restricted covenant with regards to its beginning, its earthly administration and its extent in that its visible administration concludes with the "end of this age." At that point the "everlasting covenant" is manifested in all of its glory by direct divine intervention.
     
  3. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. From Matt 19:28 KJV

    Is that administrated under the new or the everlasting? I believe new. Who are the administrators? I believe Christ and those being called as a people for his name, ie God.

    For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak. KJV Heb 2:5

    Which is that administrated under? I still believe the new.

    In verse 6 of Heb. 2 where it speaks of , what is man, I assume that is speaking of the first man Adam and his children and that all things would be put under subjection to him and his children yet we do not yet all things put under him. Then it speaks of Jesus. Is this speaking of Jesus as the last Adam, man, in which all things have been put under along with his brethren, the yet being, when they be conformed to his image, of whom he, Jesus, is the firstborn Rom 8:29?

    After that will all be delivered up to the Father as the everlasting covenant?
     
  4. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Is the King present on earth when this is being administered? If so, then God is directly administering this covenant as he is the direct administrator of the everlasting covenant.
     
  5. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    I think we need to be very careful here. I don't think Hebrews 9:1 proves what you are saying at all. It is speaking only of the 'First' or 'old' covenant.
    The Old Covenant had a human, earthly mediator, Moses, and a human earthly priesthood offering the sacrifices of various earthly animals in an earthly temple. The whole point of the New Covenant is that it has a better mediator, a better priesthood and a better sacrifice in the Lord Jesus Christ who has ascended into the 'true tabernacle that the Lord erected, and not man' (Hebrews 8:2). We therefore have now (contra the Church of Rome), no earthly head of the church(es), no earthly priesthood and no continuing sacrifices.

    The writer to the Hebrews never mentions the ekklesia when he is comparing the two covenants. Nor does Paul in 2 Corinthians 3, the only other place I can think of where the two covenants are contrasted. This is not to say that we can do whatever we like in the ekklesia- not at all!- but it is to say that the church is not the New Testament version of the Tabernacle or Temple; that is not on earth but in heaven (Hebrews 8:2; 9:11).
     
  6. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Forsaking the assembly was seen as an act of forsaking the new covenant administration (Heb. 10:25-28). The New Covenant administration is directly inclusive of the ekklesia whose names are written in heaven but who are on earth (Heb. 12:22-23).
     
  7. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Hebrews 10:23-25. 'Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much more as you see the day approaching.'

    In the context, the instruction not to forsake assembling together is not to do with the new covenant, but with the need for mutual encouragement and exhortation. The great difference between the old and new covenants is the priesthood. As priests ourselves, we can 'enter the Holiest [Place] by the blood of Jesus by a new and living way' (v.19). We have permanent access to the throne of grace through our Great High Priest. Therefore the question might reasonably be asked, why do we need a church to meet in when we can come to God in any place at any time? The answer given here is that of mutual consideration and encouragement.

    It is true that God has given 'some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers for the equipping of the saints and for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ' (Ephesians 4:11-12), and the writer to the Hebrews tells us to respect and obey those who lead us and speak God's word to us (Hebrews 13:7, 17). Obviously, we can't do that and nor can we learn (1 Peter 2:2) or take part in the ordinances unless we come together as a people (Acts 20:7; 1 Corinthians 11:18; 16:1-2). My point in taking issue with you here is to point out the very great differences between the covenants and the vast superiority of the New.

    We must not under any circumstances elevate the Christian ministry to the status of some sort of priesthood. It might be good to consider Matthew 23:8-12.
     
  8. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    My friend you stopped short. Continue reading the next four verses and you will find that this act is repudiating the "blood" whereby we were sanctified and that is not the blood of bulls and goats.



    The ministry under the Old Covenant had a completely different function than the ministry under the New Covenant. However, my point is that the establishment of the Old Covenant public administration has general similarities with the establishment of the New Covenant administration.

    1. A Primary Prophet
    2. A Public House of worship
    3. A Public ministry
    4. Public ordinances
    5. A Public confirmation - immersion in the Spirit
    6. A body of scriptures (old versus New)
    7. A commission

    The new is the clearest administration of the everlasting covenant in this age. It is clearly superior to the old in every way.
     
  9. postman pat

    postman pat New Member

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    The book's title is: Covenant Theology: A Reformed Baptist Perspective. I notice that Denault and Barcellos have commended it.
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The everlasting Covenant is really then the New Covenant one, but expanded and enforced throughout all creation, under the new heavens and new earth?
     
  11. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    The "new" covenant is a TEMPORAL covenant administration designed between the cross and the second coming for this age only. The term "new" is used in context as a contrast with the covenant administration that is said to be "old" or "first" while this is the "second." Both "first" and "Second" or "old" and "new" are TIME references that demonstrate they are both TEMPORAL in nature.

    In contrast, the "everlasting" covenant is namely just that - not restricted to time. It has its source and origin prior to time and it has its final application after this present age ceases and this present universe is replaced by a new heaven and earth.

    The "everlasting" covenant has been expressed IN TIME several different ways. It was first expressed through preaching of the gospel in Genesis 3:15 and publicly symbolized in the sacrifice (Heb. 11:4). It's unconditional nature was first expressed in the promise to Abraham and in his justification by grace alone, through faith alone in Christ alone without works, thus "in Christ" (Gal. 3:17). However, the first covenant to give it the fullest expression was the Mosaic covenant. In this covenant the moral nature of the everlasting covenant was given fuller expression in the ten commandments and it their application to the civil laws. The redemptive nature of the everlasting covenant was expanded and more fully expressed in the ceremonial laws in connection with the Tabernacle/temple and its sacrifices.

    However, the expression of the everlasting covenant in the "old" covenant was conveyed in signs, figures and shadows which all were terminated with the first coming of Christ.

    With the first coming of Christ the "second" or "new" covenant administration was established upon the fulfillment of the "old" covenant signs, figures and shadows with the reality of Christ completed mission. Thus the "old" ceased with the coming of Christ. Yet the "new" also had a prophetic termination point with the Second Coming of Christ. So both the Old and New were prophetic covenants that had terminal fulfillments thus making them both temporal. For example the Great Commission lasts to "the end of this age" (Mt. 28:20 more literal translation). We are looking for the end of this age with the coming of Christ. With Christ's personal presence on earth the everlasting covenant will be ultimately fulfilled in the new heaven and earth.

    The "new" is better than the old as it is more open and declarative of the everlasting covenant with much less signs, figures and shadows. The redemptive application of the everlasting covenant has never been through temporal covenants but has always been direct by God to his elect in all generations and thus by "the blood of the everlasting covenant." Under the new covenant the redemptive work of the Spiirt has merely expanded to "all flesh" meaning all nations rather than restricted primarily to just one nation - Israel. Under the new covenant, the everalsting covenant is seen the clearest and most direct in the administration of the new covenant, its house of God, its ministry and its ordinances. But eventually, God will directly fulfill the everlasting covenant apart from all temporal covenant administrations.
     
  12. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    I'm sorry not to have replied to this before.
    No, I said the New Covenant is the outworking and consummation of the Everlasting Covenant (hereafter, E.C.). It is not that covenant itself.
    In the E.C., God the father gave to the Son a vast crowd of sinners to redeem (eg. John 6:39; John 17:2). In the N.C. this crowd is irresistibly called by grace through faith (Eph. 2:1-10), God's righteous laws are written on their hearts (Hebrews 10:16-17) and on the Last day they will appear before the throne of God (Revelation 7:9-10).
     
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    So then we are to be under the adminstartion of the New One until the Second Coming, and then ushering in the Eternal Kingdom?
     
  14. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    I suppose so, yes. We are never told that the New Covenant will come to an end, but I suppose that at that point it will be fulfilled.
     
  15. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed. Gen 12:3

    I believe that to be the first covenant. I believe God gave the law, added the law to that covenant because of the transgressions of the people to show them that they are sinners. By giving the law, scripture concludes all under sin for all have transgressed the law.

    However it is through that covenant, "and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed," that the called out of the nations are brought into Christ by the gift of the Holy Spirit. The called are then, In Christ, are Christ's and are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

    The gift of the Holy Spirit makes us heirs not yet inheritors, Titus 3:6,7, 1 Peter 3:7 > Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. / Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

    For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it. Romans 8:24.25 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Titus 2:13

    I believe when the blessed hope arrives is when we will be under the New Covenant.
     
  16. postman pat

    postman pat New Member

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    I have finally finished Griffiths' book, Covenant Theology: A Reformed Baptist Perspective. I thoroughly recommend it, along with Denult's book on the Distinctives of Baptist Covenant Theology. It has completely changed the way I viewed the old and new covenants. He quotes a lot from John Owen. Owen said that no one has ever been saved but by the new covenant.
     
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    All who have even been saved is due to the Lord Jesus death and resurrection, but there were real differences between Old/New Covenants!
     
  18. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Ugh. There's that "paragraph".

    New covenant IS the everlasting covenant.
     
  19. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Yes, it is the outworking of the everlasting covenant. The difference, is that the "new covenant" includes more than mere salvation, it includes the visible administration of God's kingdom on earth - the administration of the ordinances, the ordained ministry, the Great Commission which is limited "unto the end of the age." However, the "everlasting covenant" entails more than what is confined to this present heaven and earth but finds its ultimate working out in a new heaven and earth or the completed redemption of the universe from the presence of sin, where there will be no administration of ordinances or ordained ministry, or Great Commission, etc. The Everlasting Covenant is more comprehensive than the "new" covenant but it is inclusive of the new covenant.
     
  20. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Most cannot distinguish between the redemptive element of the New Covenant which is an expression of the eternal covenant and how salvation has been attained from Genesis to Revelation, and the public administration of the New Covenant established by Christ in his earthly ministry that is inclusive of a public house of worship, ordinances, a public ordained ministry, a commission to the end of this age. This earthly New Covenant administration is limited to this present age as the great commission indicates "until the end of the age." However, this new covenant public administration is not the completion of the "everlasting covenant" as the everlasting covenant is completed in the eternal age of the new heaven and earth wherein there is no Great Commission, ordinances, ordained ministry, etc.
     
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