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Romans 2:14-15 does not say the moral law is written on anyone's heart. What it says is that "THE WORK" of the law is written on the heart - meaning the conscience provides the same function as the law provides. It approves and disapproves of WHATEVER STANDARD of right and wrong that the conscience has been trained to accept by family, culture or religion.

The only heart where the law of God has been written upon is the heart of believers by the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit - 2 Cor. 3:3 as that is the specific administration of the "new" covenant.

 

The Decalogue is a summary of the Moral Law, and all the commandments can be found in Scripture before Exodus 20. I believe that a moment's thought will reveal that the Decalogue was written on the heart of Adam and that he was bound to obey it. Imagine if he had built an altar to the sun in the garden, or if he had strangled Eve; do you suppose that God would have said, "Oh that's alright, Adam. Just so long as you don't eat the apple"?

The Decalogue is unique in that it was spoken by God to all the Israelites and written on stone tablets for them (Deuteronomy 5:22). None of the rest of the law was treated in that way, but was transmitted to Moses, presumably by angels (Acts 7:53; Galatians 3:19; Hebrews 2:2) and by him to the people.

Have another look. I think it's quite clear.

The Decalogue comes as a boxed set. We can't pick and choose which commandments we keep. We are not obliged to keep the Sabbath exactly as the Israelites failed to keep it, but if we love the Lord, we will want to keep His commandments (John 14:15) and that includes remembering and keeping His day. 'Do we then make void the law by faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law' (Romans 3:31).

 

What do you mean....Which commands?

What do you mean by the moral law of Moses?

Did the ten commandments exist before Exodus?

Did the ten commandments disappear?

 

This is not true B....It is God and not man, or culture, or family ,or religion,that determines right from wrong. There is not some other law that existed and then God had to come up with the decalogue later on..
i agree with MM-

 

"Baptist Believer,

Why do you suggest this? Why can it not be that the 10 commandments were already in effect as a base for all men , then became part of the laws given to Israel .
All the laws are an expansion of the 10 commandments.

he will clarify it....

What do you mean by this? in what way did He fulfill it?

Again....what do you mean by
we fulfill it in Christ?

Here is what i am getting at- Did Jesus fulfill the other 9 commandments also?
If He "fulfilled them"....do we not obey them now also?
,

[/QUOTE]
We do not have to obey any ceremonial law as they were completed.
The ten commandments are never void.

 

J. L. Dagg on the Fourth Commandment
Tim Brister — March 10, 2007 — 0 Comments
I have provided excerpts from Puritans and Edwards, and today I want to provide an excerpt from a leading voice in Southern Baptist life, namely John Dagg in his classic work, Manual of Church Order (Harrisonburg, VA: Gano Books, 1990). In his chapter on public worship, Dagg argues that “the same relations are in society everywhere; and therefore the same obligations bind everywhere. This part of the Mosaic code (the Decalogue) possesses universal and perpetual obligation; and this part, God specially distinguished from all the rest” (233). Approaching the fourth commandment, Dagg argues,

As the whole decalogue binds us, so does this commandment. No man has a right to separate it from the rest, and claim exemption from its obligation. Christians, therefore, must observe the sabbath; and, as a day which God has hallowed, it is specially appropriate for the public worship of God (ibid.).

Clearly consonant with Edwards, Dagg states that the fourth commandment “possesses universal and perpetual obligation” and that all Christians must observe the sabbath. Dagg continues to expound upon “the first day of the week” as the Christian sabbath.

According to the view which we have taken of the fourth commandment, Christians obey it, as literally as the Jews. The latter derive their series of weeks by tradition from the time of Moses; we derive ours by tradition from the time of Christ. We see with pleasure, the beginning of our series, in the brief accounts of Scripture, where they day on which Christians met for worship, is specified. On the first day of the week our Lord rose from the dead. This day was filled with the tidings and proofs of his resurrection, and with the admiration and joy of the disciples, and was closed with a meeting of the disciples, in which Jesus appeared in person. In his account of this meeting, the evangelist is careful to repeat that it was on the first day of the week (236).

In conclusion, Dagg explains how the Christian honors the Sabbath and “strictly obeys the Decalogue.”

As the Mosaic revelation displays divine wisdom, in its mode of exhibiting the fourth commandment; so does the Christian revelation, in its mode of recommending the first day of the week to our observance. . . . As the matter has been left, the Decalogue is transmitted to us, requiring the consecration of one day in seven; and the New Testament teaches us, that no times are holy in themselves; and that the regard which the Jews demand, for the day on which they keep their weekly sabbath, and for their other holy days, so far from being obligatory on Christians, is inconsistent with the nature of the Christian economy. The proportion and succession of time, as prescribed in the fourth commandment, are obligatory; . . . We are bound by the example of the apostles, to observe the first day of the week as the Christian sabbath; . . . The worship, adapted to the day, requires to be social; and each individual Christian may unite with his brethren, in the worship of God, on the day set apart for it, with the full conviction that, in so doing, he is honoring the Author of Christianity, and strictly obeying the Decalogue (237-38).

 

The work of the law is the thing that the law does- that is, what it teaches about actions , as good or bad. This work of the law is to teach what is right or wrong. This is, in some measure, in the heart of every man and woman. They know in their hearts what is right and wrong, and their conscience will assail them when they do the latter. Unfortunately, unless and until they are born again, their unregenerate hearts will override the witness of the law and they will continue in sin and somehow excuse themselves for doing so.

When people drive into my village they will be doing so at about 45mph without a care in the world, although they know perfectly well that the speed limit is 30mph. Then they are suddenly confronted by a big flashing sign saying 30 in large letters. They are confronted by the broken law and immediately slow down, proving that the law is to some extent written on their hearts- at least to the extent that they know what it is. Unfortunately, because the work of the traffic law on their hearts is overridden by their sinful natures, by the time they drive out of the village their speed is usually up to 45mph once more.

 

I did not write Romans 2:14-15. Paul did. Your argument is with him. The text does not say the law is written in the heart. It simply does not say that. It says "THE WORK" of the law is written in the heart and then it defines that work in clear explicit language. MM is wrong and so are you if you force it to read "the law is written in their hearts" when it clearly says "THE WORK of the law is written."

Paul is providing a just basis to judge the gentiles who HAVE NOT THE LAW, but rather THEY ARE A LAW UNTO THEMSELVES. Can't say it much clearer than that. The ONLY law that every heart comes with is the law of SELFISHNESS and that is what family, culture and religion tries to restrain and retrain. However, the Gentile (like every human) will always violate the law of conscience no matter what standard of restraint family, culture or religion may teach it.

Conscience is indeed trained by family, culture or religion and yet Gentiles (and every man) violates his own conscience and so whatever the conscience may be trained to accuse or accept fallen man will ALWAYS violate that standard and so that provides God with a JUST basis to condemn and judge the Gentile and all who are WITHOUT THE LAW OF GOD, as conscience provides A LAW UNTO THEMSELVES.

For example, conscience may have been trained by family, culture and religion that it is ok to kill and cut off the heads of neigboring tribes and rape their wives and then kill them (headhunters). Is that THE LAW OF GOD???? However, one of the hatfields may fall in love with the McCoys and marry them thus violating their conscience due to SELFISHNESS.

The fact that they have VIOLATED the law of their own conscience even when violation would be approved if their conscience had been trained by the Law of God, still provides a JUST BASIS to condemn them as sinners as anything not done by faith is sin.

The point is that whatever law govern conscience, man will violate it and therefore the law of conscience becomes A LAW UNTO THEMSELVES and provides God a just basis to condemn such on the day of judgement even though they are WITHOUT THE LAW OF GOD.

The only people which have the law of God WRITTEN ON THEIR HEARTS are God's new covenant people - 2 Cor. 3:3 - and that is called the NEW BIRTH.

 

Martin, It is not the Law of God that is written on the heart of lost men NOR is it the principles of God's Law written on the heart. Paul explicitly tells you THEY HAVE NOT THE LAW but rather are A LAW UNTO THEMSELVES. His point is simple. What just basis does God have to judge Gentiles on the day of judgment if they are WITHOUT GOD'S LAW!

All human beings come into this world with only one law governing their hearts - the law of SELF-CENTEREDNESS. That law is retrained from infancy by family, culture and religious moral standards which becomes the law of the conscience. For example, the head hunter culture may teach it is alright to kill those of another tribe, thus justify murder, but not murder any from their own tribe. Or it might be ok to rape women from another tribe just not your own tribe, etc.

However, the point is that EVERY MAN (Gentiles included) always violate the law of their own conscience regardless what they are or how messed up that law may be, BECAUSE THE LAW OF SELFISHNESS always predominates any other law. Therefore, whatever law that conscience has been trained that provides a standard of RIGHT or WRONG will always be violated by fallen man and thus that law among gentiles provides God with a JUST standard to condemn them on judgment day..

Again, it is not God's law written in their heart. They will violate ANY LAW that conscience has been trained by family, culture or religion regardless how moral or immoral that law may be when compared to God's law because their heart is governed by only one law = SELFISHNESS.

The ONLY people wherein the Law of God is written in the heart are the people of the New Covenant - period - and that is called the new birth.

 

Jesus did not keep people's consciences,religion's, or family tradition....
He kept the law.....all ten commandments for His people....Paul mentions the works of the law because although fallen man still has the broken fragments of the law upon his heart.

 

It is the very ten commandments that are written on the heart now in restored Image bearers

 

The law of self centeredness????? I do not recall that discussion anywhere in scripture.....For example.....a cannibal is not committing murder when he kills someone to eat his flesh????
Are you suggesting that there is a different code of law for the heathen...
Your subjective idea is dead in the water......if self centered sinner does not believe something is sin.....it is not sin????? You cannot be saying this....

 

Paul says that the Gentile DO NOT HAVE THE LAW OF GOD while you are saying they do. Paul says it is "THE WORK" of the law is what they have written in the heart but you are saying it is the law of God they have written in their heart.

The work of the conscience provides the same function as God's law but it is NOT GOD's LAW. It simply condemns or approves based on WHATEVER family, culture or religion has trained it to condemn or approve and yet sinful man always VIOLATES conscience.Hence, it proivdes God a JUST basis to condemn Gentiles who are WITHOUT THE LAW of God. Without the law means they do not have it written in their heart, they do not have it written on paper. They do not have it orally communicated - only the Jew does.

The essence of sin is SELF-CENTEREDNESS and the Law of God simply REVEALS that law which governs the hearts of all fallen men. In contrast GOD IS LOVE which is the opposite of selfishness and the Law of God defines love. The reason that family, culture and religion provide a value system is to RESTRAIN that law of selfishness as it would destroy the family, culture and religion and yet these laws of restraint are equally SELFFISH but on a family, culture or religious higher level so that they don't self-destruct. This higher level of selfishness may contain laws approved by family, culture and religion that are diametrically opposed to God's Law (again proving they are not the law of God) but yet such laws perform the SAME WORK or function if they had God's law, and thereby provide God on judgement day a JUST BASIS to condemn them of self-centeredness which is the essence of what God's Law reveals in and condemns man.

 

Jesus was not born depraved in a Gentile culture or Gentile family or a gentile relgion. Jesus was not merely man. Jesus is God by nature, born a Jew, under Jewish culture in a Jewish family under Jewish religion. Romans 2:14-15 is not talking about God or Jews but Gentiles who are without the law, without a family or culture or religion that has God's Law written on conscience, on paper or orally transmitted.

The bottom line is that Paul says they are WITHOUT THE LAW OF GOD while your interpretation denies that. Your interpretation says THE LAW OF GOD is written on their hearts while Paul says "THE WORK" of the law of God is written on the hearts and then precisely defines what the nature of that WORK is.

The only people in the universe that God writes the law on their hearts is his NEW COVENANT people (2 Cor. 3:3) and that is by NEW BIRTH not by FLESH BIRTH as you are teaching.

 

I believe you completely misunderstand Paul in Romans 2.
When he speaks of Gentiles who do not have a written copy of the law, he is contrasting the Jews who were entrusted with the scripture.
He had already explained that Gentiles had a knowledge of God at one time, and turned from it....rom 1.
Three times God gave them over in judgment....
The judgment was lawlessness,and breaking of the commandments...rom1
It is not that men no longer had a knowledge of God and His law...they turned from it and suffer the consequences of it.

 

SBC publisher Broadman & Holman Academic has a new book out, Progressive Covenantalism: Charting a Course between Dispensational and Covenantal Theologies.

http://www.bhacademic.com/product/progressive-covenantalism/

 

First of all, to keep writing things in CAPITALS does not make them any more correct.
Secondly, the 'work of the law' is the work that the law does. Which law is that? Why, 'the law written on their hearts.' The work of the law is to convict unbelievers of sin so that they may come to Christ by faith (Galatians 3:24). The moral law was written on the heart of Adam (Genesis 1:27; Ecclesiastes 7:29). By the Fall that writing is defaced and all but illegible in his descendants, but it is not totally effaced; people still know the difference between right and wrong although their sinful hearts continue to choose sin over righteousness. And when unsaved people do good things, they show that the law written on their hearts is still working to some extent. Although they 'do not have the law'- that is, they do not have the revelation of the law that Israel had as a written document on stone tablets, they are nonetheless confronted with it. 'The law of God confronts them and registers itself in their consciences by reason of what they natively and constitutionally are' (John Murray, Epistle to the Romans).

It is claimed that the expression, 'a law to themselves' means that they have their own laws, not God's law on their hearts, but that cannot be correct. Nomos is anarthrous in Romans 2:13, 25; 7:25; 13:8, 10 but still refers to the law of God. and 2:14 begins, 'for when Gentiles, who do not have law.....' In fact, Gentiles have plenty of law, they just don't have God's law as a written revelation.

This is my last post for a while. Once again, I have a pile of stuff to do.

 

What law? What does it say? you say ...keep them???? where are they? Give me an example of these laws????

then you said;

If someone meets you on the street and says....are we under any law as believers, where do I find such a law explained???? what do you say....can you answer with something specific????