How Does a Christian Choose?

This is what you said to me

And there are two ways to become a US citizen - birth and naturalization. Abortion is a greater issue than citizenship.

 

Not legally

and Earthly citizenship is strictly a goverment issue.

 

No, I didnt take your post down and I quoted post #15.

My argument is clear. Governments are responsible regardless of citzenship (your argument of "well....legally" is silly because US citizenship IS a legal term). Responsibility doesn't stop with citizenship.

 

Dealing honestly with the topic doesn't help the other side. If anything, diminishing life itself to a right of citizenship helps the other side. Your argument is in that way pro-abortion as the argument should be based on being human, a person....not rights of citizenship. In fact, pro-abortionists attack just that - NOT citizenship, but these children being persons.

But I also believe we, as a nation, incur guilt for our dealings with other nations who actively support abortion (like China). So I see your stance as contributing to the pro-choice argument and you probably see me as hyper in my anti-abortion view. Abortion is the top issue for me in this election. Simply, murder is wrong regardless of citizenship....period....not because of secular laws but because of God.

 

Except that one must be born!!!! You help the pro-choice lobby by moving the argument from human and person to some creative redefining of a legal term. You move from God to the courtroom....just like those you seek to oppose. You can't win on those grounds because you are wrong.

That part is true....we agree here.

That's just silly. We did not have the right to be US citizens based on our humanity. I had the right based on the fact I was born in South Carolina. Where on earth did you get the notion that citizenship was based on humanity????

Jesus was not a Roman citizen. Are you saying he was less than human???

“Citizen” is not the same as “human” or “person”. You are assuming the pro-abortion stance of reducing a government’s responsibility strictly to those who are citizens. The argument is not out of thin air, it was my only…get that???? MY ONLY disagreement with the article. And that was the point to which you objected.

You argued that God views all people as citizens…I presume of the government that they happen to be in or passing through at the time….and I rejected that argument. You argued for some kind of “right” of citizenship based on humanity (I’d love to see you defend that biblically or constitutionally)….and I reject that argument.

No, not indefensible at all: https://www.uscis.gov/us-citizenship

Your position here reflects the pro-abortion stance. You seek to argue morality and evil based on secular laws of secular government. I am, spiritually and most of all, a citizen of the Kingdom of God. I am a US citizen by birth...get that??? I was born here and am a citizen because I met the requirement of citizenship that the US government established.

Abortion is wrong because it is a sin against God. Period. No need to redefine citizenship to meet your needs (remember, Paul was a citizen of Rome….but not all of those living there were Roman citizens). You are right on abortion but wrong to take the pro-abortion stance. Take the biblical position and stand for God instead of legal principles.

Abortion is wrong, not because it violates some rights of citizenship but because it is an evil against an Almighty and Holy God....PERIOD. It's evil...PERIOD. And all of your taking it to the courtroom and redefining citizenship is just playing along to the pro-abortion crowd because you'll never win leaning on the law of the land. We will never win when we toss out the gospel in favor of redefining secular law.

 

It's like saying that when we sin we sin against God.

We do make laws, and abide by those laws insofar as they are not contrary to God's command. And the law requires a person to be born to be a citizen. I don't think that citizenship is an issue of morality, but you are right that our laws are (or should be) based on our spiritual beliefs.

 

The problem is that governments are also accountable for those under their influence but who are not citizens (the unborn, resident aliens, ... even illegal aliens). We are accountable to God to how we treat other human beings. Citizenship does not make a person more valuable, is not based on humanity, and is not a part of the anti-abortion argument (it is a part of the pro-abortion movement).

 

On the issue of abortion, we both agree that it is wrong. I don't see you as an opponent on the topic. On citizenship, we disagree. I see abortion as an equally horrible evil regardless.The US government is not only to protect the unborn children of it's citizens, but the unborn within their responsibility period. The distinction is that the babies of illegal aliens, of non-citizens, of resident aliens, etc. are just as precious to God and just as warranting of protection of the government in which they reside as are the babies of our citizens.

The difference is that citizenship has been used to justify evil in the past, to deny basic human rights, when those things should be founded on humanity and not citizenship. My only complaint here is that your platform on government responsibility is, IMHO, far too narrow.