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Featured Matthew Henry on John 3:16 and the World

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by revmwc, Nov 30, 2016.

  1. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    Jesus Christ came to save us by pardoning us, that we might not die by the sentence of the law, John 3:16,17. Here is gospel indeed, good news, the best that ever came from heaven to earth. Here is much, here is all in a little, the word of reconciliation in miniature.

    First, Here is God's love in giving his Son for the world (John 3:16), where we have three things:-- 1. The great gospel mystery revealed: God so loved the world that he gave his only-begotten Son. The love of God the Father is the original of our regeneration by the Spirit and our reconciliation by the lifting up of the Son. Note, (1.) Jesus Christ is the only-begotten Son of God. This magnifies his love in giving him for us, in giving him to us now know we that he loves us, when he has given his only-begotten Son for us, which expresses not only his dignity in himself, but his dearness to his Father he was always his delight. (2.) In order to the redemption and salvation of man, it pleased God to give his only-begotten Son. He not only sent him into the world with full and ample power to negotiate a peace between heaven and earth, but he gave him, that is, he gave him up to suffer and die for us, as the great propitiation or expiatory sacrifice. It comes in here as a reason why he must be lifted up for so it was determined and designed by the Father, who gave him for this purpose, and prepared him a body in order to it. His enemies could not have taken him if his Father had not given him. Though he was not yet crucified, yet in the determinate counsel of God he was given up, Acts 2:23. Nay, further, God has given him, that is, he has made an offer of him, to all, and given him to all true believers, to all the intents and purposes of the new covenant. He has given him to be our prophet, a witness to the people, the high priest of our profession, to be our peace, to be head of the church and head over all things to the church, to be to us all we need. (3.) Herein God has commended his love to the world: God so loved the world, so really, so richly. Now his creatures shall see that he loves them, and wishes them well. He so loved the world of fallen man as he did not love that of fallen angels see Romans 5:8,1 John 4:10. Behold, and wonder, that the great God should love such a worthless world! That the holy God should love such a wicked world with a love of good will, when he could not look upon it with any complacency. This was a time of love indeed, Ezekiel 16:6,8. The Jews vainly conceited that the Messiah should be sent only in love to their nation, and to advance them upon the ruins of their neighbours but Christ tells them that he came in love to the whole world, Gentiles as well as Jews, 1 John 2:2. Though many of the world of mankind perish, yet God's giving his only-begotten Son was an instance of his love to the whole world, because through him there is a general offer of life and salvation made to all. It is love to the revolted rebellious province to issue out a proclamation of pardon and indemnity to all that will come in, plead it upon their knees, and return to their allegiance. So far God loved the apostate lapsed world that he sent his Son with this fair proposal, that whosoever believes in him, one or other, shall not perish. Salvation has been of the Jews, but now Christ is known as salvation to the ends of the earth, a common salvation. 2. Here is the great gospel duty, and that is to believe in Jesus Christ (Whom God has thus given, given for us, given to us), to accept the gift, and answer the intention of the giver. We must yield an unfeigned assent and consent to the record God hath given in his word concerning his Son. God having given him to us to be our prophet, priest, and king, we must give up ourselves to be ruled, and taught, and saved by him. 3. Here is the great gospel benefit: That whosoever believes in Christ shall not perish. This he had said before, and here repeats it. It is the unspeakable happiness of all true believers, for which they are eternally indebted to Christ, (1.) That they are saved from the miseries of hell, delivered from going down to the pit they shall not perish. God has taken away their sin, they shall not die a pardon is purchased, and so the attainder is reversed. (2.) They are entitled to the joys of heaven: they shall have everlasting life. The convicted traitor is not only pardoned, but preferred, and made a favourite, and treated as one whom the King of kings delights to honour. Out of prison he comes to reign, Ecclesiastes 4:14. If believers, then children and, if children, then heirs.
     
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  2. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Yeah well I saved everyone from the invisible undetectable death crystals which would have thrown everyone including God into hell, and I didn't even ask for thanks.

    The problem with is sin isn't the penalty of law, law was designed to help us. The problem with sin is sin itself, the moment you sin your already dead.

    Penalties for sinning is like training wheels for folks who have no sense of Love and Compassion.

    The worst thing you can do or happen to you is sin, a selfish person believes the worst is suffering.


    The Devil will emphasize who Jesus is at the expense of what he commands one to do.

    BELIEVE IN JESUS BELIEVE IN JESUS.

    Jesus says if you want eternal life, LOVE GOD, LOVE NEIGHBOR.

    Ignore that command^ BELIEVE IN JESUS BELIEVE IN JESUS.
     
  3. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    Jesus said this about salvation:
    John 3:
    14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
    15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
    16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
    17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
    18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
    19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
    20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
    21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

    Why are men condemned according to Jesus? he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    Now what it appears you just said? The problem with sin is sin itself, the moment you sin your already dead. Then you appear to say that Jesus says if you want eternal life, LOVE GOD, LOVE NEIGHBOR.
    Love God and Loving Neighbor are fruits of salvation and the believer as they have followed Jesus command to Believe on the Son here is what He said, He that believeth on him is not condemned. To say that one must LOVE GOD, LOVE NEIGHBOR contradicts what Jesus said saves a person. Yes as believers we should Love God and Neighbor but that comes after we have believed.

    You seem to be saying:
    The Devil will emphasize who Jesus is at the expense of what he commands one to do.
    BELIEVE IN JESUS BELIEVE IN JESUS. Yet Jesus states that "He that believeth on him is not condemned:" so is that from satan or God?
     
  4. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Luke 10

    25And a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 26And He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?” 27And he answered, “YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.” 28And He said to him, “You have answered correctly; DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE.”

    Doesn't say those with eternal life inherit the ability to love God and Neighbor. Just the opposite.

    Believing what Jesus says that would be believing in Jesus Christ.


    Even in the same chapter you quoted:

    John 3

    36“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

    Original Greek.
    ἀπειθῶν = Not obeying

    Believing isn't merely our acknowledgement of existence. Even the devil believes in Jesus.


    We have a whole chapter dedicated to this flawed view.


    James 2

    19You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. 20But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?

    He's not asking me, I already know its useless.




    Luke 6

    46“Why do you call Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say? 47“Everyone who comes to Me and hears My words and acts on them, I will show you whom he is like: 48he is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid a foundation on the rock; and when a flood occurred, the torrent burst against that house and could not shake it, because it had been well built. 49“But the one who has heard and has not acted accordingly, is like a man who built a house on the ground without any foundation; and the torrent burst against it and immediately it collapsed, and the ruin of that house was great.”


    Notice its like a man building a house, doesn't say he starts with a house or a house got built for him

    The Matthew 7 parallel even calls them wise man vs foolish man.


    That's why sermon on the mount is how it is and teaches the gospel. He didn't walk up and say look here I am, see I exist, believe me I exist and have a great day.

    You need to believe what the bible says about the faith.

    "To say that one must LOVE GOD, LOVE NEIGHBOR contradicts what Jesus said saves a person"

    LOL. Here's another issue brother. I do the command of God for free. When your heavenly Dad ask you to mow the lawn you might negotiate to do it for 5$. Or well if I do this will this give me eternal life?

    Brother I would love God and neighbor if it even spelled certain doom.


    John 17

    3“This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

    If you think eternal life is something different then loving God and neighbor, you have a lot to learn about both.
     
  5. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Loving God is a result being born again. Before I was born again I couldn't love God because the wrath of God was abiding on me.
     
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  6. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Backwards.

    This is the order:

    John 14
    21“He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.”


    This is the order:

    1 john 4
    20If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.


    This is the order:
    Matthew 6
    14“For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15“But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.



    God is not selfish. A good parent wants you to love your brothers and sisters first. Scripture tells us the order things happen. You guys have provided ZERO scripture, And I can go on and on continuously providing.
     
    #6 utilyan, Dec 2, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2016
  7. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    You are wrong.

    2 Corinthians 6:16-18 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
    Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
    And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

    He makes you born again, and THEN you can love and obey.
     
  8. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Hebrews 10:14-17 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
    Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
    This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
    And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
     
  9. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Titus 3:3-8 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
    But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
    Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
    Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
    That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
    This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
     
  10. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Love of God is such a BE ALL and END ALL, that if even GOD does not love God there is not even a hint of you being born again.

    Everything OUTSIDE of Love of God is SIN, And NO SIN is going to save a person.

    Tell me which SIN is going to save you?

    Look who I am pointing at! Open your dictionary to "LOVE OF GOD".
    My dictionary says LOVE OF GOD........JESUS CHRIST.
     
  11. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Ephesians 1
    13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

    First, the Gospel is Heard
    Second, The Gospel is Believed
    Third, you are Born Again
    Fourth, Live out the Life of Christ now within you

    How can a dead person love?

    Ephesians 2:1
    You were made alive who were dead in your trespasses and sins.
     
  12. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    You must be born again to Live out the Kingdom Principles of Love...

    John 3
    5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

    6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

    Until you are born again you are just a shell, filled with dead dry bones. No life.

    When you are born again you are filled with the Spirit and Life of Christ.
     
  13. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Same Chapter

    John 3

    36“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

    Original Greek.
    ἀπειθῶν = Not obeying

    Those who don't obey are not born again.


    Jesus Christ states everyone has the capability:

    Luke 6

    32“If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. 33“If you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. 34“If you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners in order to receive back the same amount.




    Lets use scripture to point out what a dead body is or not.


    James 2

    26For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.


    You do not do the GOOD WORK of LOVING GOD and NEIGHBOR? Sorry but your "DEAD ALONE" theology does not work.




    To be born again requires an act of God's forgiveness.

    Matthew 6

    14“For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15“But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.



    Notice he doesn't say well you start off forgiven by the father first so now you can forgive others.

    ON THE CONTRARY. You have to forgive others FIRST, THEN God will forgive you.


    The capability to LOVE GOD rests on the COMMAND, GOD commands it.


    A banana doesn't have the capacity to love God, But you don't walk around condemning sinful bananas do you?

    Man has the capacity, Its precisely because we can freely love GOD and REFUSE TO that makes sin, a SIN.


    With your version MAN does not repent only GOD CAN, Neither does God forgive at all.

    No when you sin it is YOUR FAULT and WITHOUT EXCUSE.

    James 1

    13Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.
     
  14. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    this is your second admonition. Your works based salvation is going to send you directly to hell.

    First forgive, then God will forgive you? Salvation is not conditional on what I do, but what Christ has done.

    Forgiveness is a fellowship issue, not a positional issue. Positionally, I am a child of God because of Grace through Faith. If i don't forgive others i'm out of FELLOWSHIP with God, not out of His family.
     
  15. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Wait are you saying I should do the GOOD WORK discontinuing my "Works based salvation" else I will go to hell?

    Do you even realize YOU don't even believe what you say you believe?

    According to you, I don't have to stop, because what we DO has no bearing on salvation, In fact your the number one fan of saying I don't have to DO RIGHT.
    (IF you actually believed what you say you believe, which you clearly don't)
     
    #15 utilyan, Dec 2, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2016
  16. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Loving like God wants us to Love, forgiving, obeying God is a result of being born again. Obedience is the by-product of receiving Salvation, the Pardon from the penalty of our Sin. Obedience is a result of the Spirit of Christ Living within us. We don't love to be forgiven, we love because we are forgiven. We don't love to be saved, we are saved therefore we love.

    2 Corinthians 5

    14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

    15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

    And here is what happens after we have peace with God, after we have been born again...

    16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

    17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

    18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
     
  17. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    Where does the Love of God come from?
    Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
    It shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit. Now as an unbeliever there is never love of God,

    2 Thessalonians 3:5
    And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ.

    The Lord directs Love into the believers heart.

    1 John 2:
    2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
    3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
    4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
    5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

    Those who keep His commandments and what are His commandments, Well John 6:35 is clearly His command, "And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst."
    So keep that command believe on Him, John 6:47 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life."

    You can only have everlasting life by believing yet another command to believe.

    John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
    The truth of God's word, Love of God Love of fellow believer and love of enemies flow out of those who believe because the living Water "Jesus" produces them in our lives.

    John 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

    We cannot have the Love of if we walk in Darkness and whosoever believes on Christ has light and no darkness will abide in Him.
     
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  18. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Sorry but LOVE GOD and LOVE NEIGHBOR is the equivalent of believing in Christ.

    If you do not love God or Neighbor you do not believe in Christ.



    John 3

    36“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

    Original Greek.
    ἀπειθῶν = Not obeying

    Those who don't obey are not born again.

    Why are you avoiding the next page of 1 john 3? Because it flat out says your wrong.

    1 John 4

    23This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. 24The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

    Wait a minute did he just say his commandment is to believe / love neighbor?


    You got the same problem the PHARISEES had in believing themselves the only chosen, the GOOD SAMARITAN.

    GOOD SAMARITAN:

    1. Is not Christian! (your standard)
    2. Is best example of true CHRISTIAN! (Christ's standard)


    Good Samaritan does not believe Jesus Christ is personal Lord and Savior. Yet Jesus sets him as the perfect example in AGAPE, the best example on how to love God and neighbor.



    You people would declare the GOOD SAMARITAN, DAMNED, DAMNED SAMARITAN for not capable of "loving like God wants us to love".


    You guys said:

    "To say that one must LOVE GOD, LOVE NEIGHBOR contradicts what Jesus said saves a person"


    Loving God and Loving neighbor is PRECISELY what Jesus says saves a person.

    1 timothy 1
    5But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.
     
  19. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    The Bible Says to Reject a heretic after the second admonition. This i will do.

    You are totally incapable of Loving Unless God Shed's His Love in our Hearts Through the Holy Spirit. Those who do not have His Spirit are none of His and are incapable of Loving Him.
     
  20. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    "this I will do"

    That's right you better DO the good works. Thank you for making my point even more obvious.



    You don't like scripture do you?

    No it says 2 or 3 witnesses and then you have to take it to church first.

    Matthew 18

    15“If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16“But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. 17“If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.


    I think your superiors would disagree with what you are saying.


    1 peter 3
    15but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence;


    You are not prepared my friend, that's why you provide no scripture.

    You follow scripted line just as any other coward who can't think for him self does, always buckling under peer pressure, always telling folks what they want to hear.

    God didn't call you to do what is easy, but to do what is right.
     
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