1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Divorce: The Next Generation

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by StefanM, Dec 3, 2016.

  1. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,333
    Likes Received:
    210
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I've heard often that couples who married after a previous divorce are not required to divorce again and to remain single.

    Without taking a position on that particular issue, how would we approach the topic if it were a same-gender relationship (such as state-sanctioned marriage)?

    Would we not encourage them to split, even if children were involved?

    So, given that response, why not require the remarried couple to divorce as well?

    I'm not taking a particular position right now, but I thought this would be worthy of discussion.
     
  2. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,914
    Likes Received:
    706
    I would say since it is not at all a marriage in God's eyes but fornication, getting a divorce in that situation is right and Biblical.
     
  3. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,333
    Likes Received:
    210
    Faith:
    Baptist
    For both couples, or just the same-gender relationship?

    If for both, the prohibition against adultery seems to fit similar criteria for a second marriage.

    Again, just my thoughts--I'm not sure where I land on the man/woman couple.
     
  4. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    10,756
    Likes Received:
    795
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes, because it is a legitimate marriage before the state, society and probably God. God knows the true nature of all of our relationships.

    One of the many reasons God hates sexual promiscuity, adultery, and divorce is that it destabilizes the relationships required for human flourishing.

    As someone who was asked that question, point blank, from a gay friend who was legally married to another man and had an adopted daughter from the time of her birth, I said that they need to do what they think is best under God's leadership. They are the parents of a little girl who needs a stable home life, so they need to keep those relationships strong and nurturing to take her into adulthood. That doesn't mean that they should be sexually involved or anything else, but their first responsibility is to do what is right by their daughter. For that, I expect to be roundly condemned by some of the more "spiritual" people around here.

    Full disclosure: I am convinced by scripture that all sexual relationships outside of the bounds of a marriage between and man and a woman go against God's created order. Same sex attraction is a huge handicap some people have to deal with and it usually comes from forces outside of one's conscious control or choice. What one does with those feelings and impulses is totally under the control of the person who experiences them. Just as most of us experience sexual feelings and desires towards person of the opposite gender from time to time that would be inappropriate to act upon, those who experience same sex desire need to set that aside in favor of a healthier expression of love.

    They should not be.

    IF the reasons for the previous divorce were not valid, that does not negate the commitments of the second marriage.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    They are not in a Marriage from God viewpoint, so they need to be friends only, andtryto be best parents for choldren they can be...
    Act as if divorced but agree to help raise children...
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    IF they want to obey the Lord in this situation, should act as "brother/brother" moving forward, and not "wife/husband"...
     
  7. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    10,756
    Likes Received:
    795
    Faith:
    Baptist
    This is the key premise. Is it valid?

    This view comes from a particular interpretation of the teaching of Jesus in the Gospels.

    This is one of the relevant passages from Matthew 5:31-32

    [Jesus taught,]"It was said, 'Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a divorce certificate,' But I tell you that everyone who divorces his wife for any reason except sexual unfaithfulness makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman himself commits adultery."

    Jesus is teaching in a very specific cultural context, but the truths can be extracted from it.

    In this culture, women were not allowed to initiate divorce in any standard way. Moreover, if they found themselves divorced, they were in a terrible social and economic position and would have to turns to relatives or the kindness/malevolence of strangers to make their way in the world. Moses has allowed men to give women a certificate of divorce as a small grace to women so they could avoid being executed for adultery or facing endless abuse by a husband who wishes he were not married to her anymore. I can't help but think that Moses expected that allowance to be used sparely, only by the more hard-hearted men, but it was apparently much more common than it should have been in the days of Jesus. There are some commentators who believe that since execution was strongly discouraged under Roman occupation, certificates of divorce were used in place of execution to justly end a marriage destroyed by adultery.

    A woman released under a certificate of divorce was under a cloud of suspicion as an adulteress, no matter what the real cause. If a woman tried to get her life together and found a new husband, the new husband would have to enter into the previously divorce woman's shame, thus also stained with the social and religious stigma of adultery - regardless of the truth of the situation.

    We need to notice a couple of things:

    1.) Jesus does not claim that the new marriage is invalid. He could have easily said that, but he didn't. He mentioned it in terms of the marriage bond.
    2.) The command is pointed toward men, not women.
    3.) I am convinced Jesus is condemning a social practice of the Jewish community where they weer almost casually mistreating women and justifying it in terms of being religiously correct (that is, the certificate of divorce authorized by Moses). That fits with the context of the "You have heard, but I say" passage. Jesus goes on to describe the stigma that follows from that unrighteous act.

    The stigma of being divorced - even when it is scripturally justifiable - is a real thing. For example, things in American Christian culture have changed now, but back in the 1960s-1970s, divorced people were treated with great suspicion in Christian circles. I know this because I lived through that era and heard the gossip and saw the second wave of devastation as even those who were legitimately divorced faced open contempt from church folk.

    Even when I ultimately divorced by first wife in the mid-1990s because of continual infidelity and finally abandonment over the course of two years, I took a LOT of grief from well-intentioned but completely clueless people who made grand assumptions about who was at fault and the motivations I allegedly had for finally taking steps to legally end the marriage (the marriage had been over in reality for nearly a year). "Spiritual" people assuring me that I was at fault and I had a girlfriend waiting in the wings, which was completely untrue. I also had several tell me that "my type" (whatever that is supposed to mean) would hop from woman to woman for my own sexual gratification, and that they would be proven right because I would be remarried within a year. In reality, I wanted nothing to do with marriage (or most church people like that) for quite a few years. I eventually "rushed" into another marriage 11 years later and have been quite happily married ever since.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    35,198
    Likes Received:
    3,791
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I think that this issue can become both complicated and legalistic.

    For example, my father was divorced (for biblical reasons) years before I was born. Then he met my mother, they married, later was saved, and I was born. Is he wrong to have remarried? If so then is he required to divorce and destroy our family unit? If so, then what about the sin of not managing his household (leaving my mother, my siblings, and me….even if he provides support, to “make things right”).

    If he had been divorced for other than biblical reasons, remarried, and then was saved then is the divorce forgiven? Is he required to sin against his current family in order to be faithful to God? If this happened when he was saved, is it something beyond forgiveness?

    Although I realize many may disagree, here is my answer:

    When we sin it is against God. God calls us to repent. There is no forgiveness without repentance. But this does not mean that we can always make past sins right. Repentance is a turning, a changing, of one’s mind. Turn from sin (that sin that led to divorce) and turn to God and I believe that God will forgive you.

    I do not believe that God, having forgiven a divorced Christian who has truly repented, sees that person in a state of perpetual adultery because they remain with their current family. I do not think that God requires that that man, or woman, abandon their families in order to reunite with their first spouse if the divorce was on other than biblical grounds. I do not believe Go requires a man or woman to leave their family and become single if it were on biblical grounds.

    We cannot fix the past. The best that we can do is reach out to the one offended in a spirit of reconciliation (not necessarily restoration, but reconciliation). In other words, I don’t think when Jesus told the woman to “go and sin no more” that he was commanding her to be reunited with her first husband..
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,914
    Likes Received:
    706
    Jon - I'm right there with you. I do think a divorce years before and pre-salvation is very different. We have a pastor in the exact same situation except he actually didn't get divorced for Biblical reasons but his wife left him because of his drug and alcohol abuse. But that was years before he was saved, he met another woman after his divorce, they married and were saved. Their children are now in their twenties and he has been faithfully married all of these years. I do not think that he is living in sin or adultery.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    20,080
    Likes Received:
    3,491
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Insofar as, by your own testimony, your father was divorced for biblical reasons, why would you even ask that question?
     
  11. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    35,198
    Likes Received:
    3,791
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I don't ask for me, but on another thread the issue of remarriage was brought up. I am aware of the view that those who divorce for biblical reasons are justified in the divorce but not in remarriage.

    Also, the issue remains with some. If a man had divorced unbiblucally but is now married with a family, does God require him to leave my family and reunite with his first wife? Are those bonds of his second marriage non-existent? Or is the situation covered by Christ's blood in such a way that with repentance the man is reconciled to God without being reconciled through the restoration of his first marriage?
     
    • Like Like x 1
Loading...