The Millennium: What's the Point?

[Aaron]

I don't quite see the millennial reign as a reestablishing of the Law? The Law has been fulfilled. But the realities and principles of the Law of CHRIST will be a world wide Theocracy. The sermon on the Mount will be in full force. Don't get me wrong, every aspect of the sermon on the mount is for Christendom now, but are these teachings permeating of the world right now? Come on, it's evidently not. This may be a stretch, but Leaders will be Christians who were faithful during their earthly ministries. Governors, presidents, etc. will be established by Christ and they will be His chosen staff of leaders.

These are the ideas i see through reading the prophets, Gospels, and Revelation.

So, basically, you think your reward will be to rule over unbelievers. Or, from a different point of view, the children of Israel will rule over the idolatrous gentiles.

And this reward, being earthly, is by necessity, temporary and monetary (lands, gold and prestige). It's just that the currency is different. It may not be gold, but it buys you a palace, and pays for gifts and offerings to fill Christ's coffers in Jerusalem. I mean, you're given power over others on earth, and that's all that money is.

Either way, this reward comes to an end. There will be no more heathen over which to rule.

Then what?

And i agree with TC, anything done resembling ceremonial aspects of the Law will be done as a memorial. I mean, come on, i sacrifice to God daily with burnt offerings giving thanks unto the Lord. Don't you? I call it dinner.

That's not what you said earlier.

Specifically. ..

Zechariah 14:16-19 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

A compulsory feast, it's origin and order is of the law, and it doesn't matter what one's heart is. Just gotta go to Jerusalem or you don't get any rain. You can despise it all you want in your heart, as long as there's an outward show.

The law.

And that is the point of your Millennium.

 

[Aaron]

Except for that pesky fact that we are all priests.

But not according to any commandment.

 

[JonShaff]

But not according to any commandment.

So, basically, you think your reward will be to rule over unbelievers. Or, from a different point of view, the children of Israel will rule over the idolatrous gentiles.

And this reward, being earthly, is by necessity, temporary and monetary (lands, gold and prestige). It's just that the currency is different. It may not be gold, but it buys you a palace, and pays for gifts and offerings to fill Christ's coffers in Jerusalem. I mean, you're given power over others on earth, and that's all that money is.

Either way, this reward comes to an end. There will be no more heathen over which to rule.

Then what?

That's not what you said earlier.
A compulsory feast, it's origin and order is of the law, and it doesn't matter what one's heart is. Just gotta go to Jerusalem or you don't get any rain. You can despise it all you want in your heart, as long as there's an outward show.

The law.

And that is the point of your Millennium.

Do you celebrate Passover?

 

[percho]

Do you celebrate Passover?

For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

 

[Aaron]

Do you celebrate Passover?

Of course not. Neither do I keep the Sabbath.

 

[kyredneck]

Actually, could make a MUCH better case for the Church of Rome

Better case than this? (one of very many that can be made):

8 And their dead bodies lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified. Rev 11

19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and Babylon the great was remembered in the sight of God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. Rev 16
18 And the woman whom thou sawest is the great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth. Rev 17
10 standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Woe, woe, the great city, Babylon, the strong city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
21 And a strong angel took up a stone as it were a great millstone and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with a mighty fall shall Babylon, the great city, be cast down, and shall be found no more at all. Rev 18

It is the seventh head with ten horns where you will find the Holy Roman Empire that persecuted both the Church and the Harlot:

12 And the ten horns that thou sawest are ten kings, who have received no kingdom as yet; but they receive authority as kings, with the beast, for one hour.
13 These have one mind, and they give their power and authority unto the beast.
14 These shall war against the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them, for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings; and they also shall overcome that are with him, called and chosen and faithful.
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the harlot sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
16 And the ten horns which thou sawest, and the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and shall burn her utterly with fire. Rev 17 (read the curses of Lev 26 & Dt 28)

AndPal stated that Godwas not ye done with Israel

Apostate Judaism being the Harlot of Revelation has zilch to do with whether there is to be a future incoming of the Jews into the Church. In fact, this realization on their part may be the beginning of such an incoming.

 

[JonShaff]

Is the Harlot not "false religion" in general?

 

[kyredneck]

Is the Harlot not "false religion" in general?

No. This is very specific.

Compare:

20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye saints, and ye apostles, and ye prophets; for God hath judged your judgment on her.
21 And a strong angel took up a stone as it were a great millstone and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with a mighty fall shall Babylon, the great city, be cast down, and shall be found no more at all.
22 And the voice of harpers and minstrels and flute-players and trumpeters shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft, shall be found any more at all in thee; and the voice of a mill shall be heard no more at all in thee;
23 and the light of a lamp shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the princes of the earth; for with thy sorcery were all the nations deceived.
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of all that have been slain upon the earth Rev 18.

With:

34 Therefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: some of them shall ye kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city:
35 that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of Abel the righteous unto the blood of Zachariah son of Barachiah, whom ye slew between the sanctuary and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, that killeth the prophets, and stoneth them that are sent unto her! how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. Mt 23

 

[JonShaff]

But apostate Israel is under the same control as Islam and Hindus and Roman catholics...The power of the prince of the air. The spirit of those who work disobedience.

 

[kyredneck]

But apostate Israel is under the same control as Islam and Hindus and Roman catholics...The power of the prince of the air. The spirit of those who work disobedience.

Okay. But that doesn't change the fact of who the identity of the Harlot of Revelation is.

And I've disrespected Aaron by getting involved in this thread because I am NOT a premillenialist (in case you aint figgered that out yet) and he asked that only premillenialists participate on this thread.

So, back to the topic of the Millennial reign, I've a question for any of you premillenialists:

Can you pinpoint the passage in Revelation where Christ physically returns and sets foot on terra firma?

 

[JonShaff]

So it would be assumed Christ is ruling and reigning on earth because He is with His saints and we see later in Chapter 20...

Revelation 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

If the saints are physically on earth and Christ is with His saints then Christ must be physically on earth.

 

[JonShaff]

And of course we know Christ came down from Heaven

Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

 

[JonShaff]

Prophetic...

Psalms 2:6-12 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

 

[kyredneck]

So it would be assumed Christ is ruling and reigning on earth because He is with His saints and we see later in Chapter 20...

No. Christ is reigning from heaven with the assemblies of saints, both in heaven and on earth.

The question once again:

Can you pinpoint the passage in Revelation where Christ physically returns and sets foot on terra firma?

 

[kyredneck]

Prophetic...

Psalms 2:6-12 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

Can you pinpoint the passage in Revelation where Christ physically returns and sets foot on terra firma?

 

[kyredneck]

And of course we know Christ came down from Heaven

Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

He's doing this from His throne in heaven. This doesn't answer the question:

Can you pinpoint the passage in Revelation where Christ physically returns and sets foot on terra firma?

 

[JonShaff]

Revelation 19:11, 14-15 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.


right...so He came out of heaven...and reigned with the saints in Jerusalem

 

[JonShaff]

Zechariah 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

 

[kyredneck]

Revelation 19:11, 14-15 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.


right...so He came out of heaven...and reigned with the saints in Jerusalem

Where in all this do the events described ever leave heaven? The question once again:

Can you pinpoint the passage in Revelation where Christ physically returns and sets foot on terra firma?

 

[JonShaff]

Where in all this do the events described ever leave heaven? The question once again:

Can you pinpoint the passage in Revelation where Christ physically returns and sets foot on terra firma?

19-20 are connected

Christ comes out of heaven, rules and reigns with His saints in Jerusalem.

Revelation 19:11, 14, 19, 21 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.


Revelation 20:4, 9 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

So once again, we see Christ comes out of heaven, to earth, rules and reigns with the saints in earth for 1000 years and has one last final battle and God consumes that are against His Christ.