The case for the possibility of losing salvation?

[StefanM]

I'm not making this post to try to invite others to debate me; I'm honestly just interested in the "real world" beliefs of those who believe salvation can be lost. I'm sure the debate will naturally flow.

If you believe it is possible to lose salvation . . .

1) What causes you to lose it?

2) Is there a chance to regain it?

3) Does this belief cause you emotional distress (e.g. anxiety)?

4) Is there anything you would like to explain or clarify?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Steve, I cant honestly believe you can in fact loose your salvation. God does not do that (just my beliefs spoken here). Therefore I cant answer you. Now I do believe you can backslide...that is a choice you can make .... however, the backslider is giving up much of the kingdom (that is on this earth)...IE the Unbelievable Joy of Life, the Peace, the moral living etc. These are all grace rewards that has been provided for you.

 

[Yeshua1]

I'm not making this post to try to invite others to debate me; I'm honestly just interested in the "real world" beliefs of those who believe salvation can be lost. I'm sure the debate will naturally flow.

If you believe it is possible to lose salvation . . .

1) What causes you to lose it?

2) Is there a chance to regain it?

3) Does this belief cause you emotional distress (e.g. anxiety)?

4) Is there anything you would like to explain or clarify?

Think the ONLY reason t hold to that is a desire to keep "real free will" alive!

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Stefan,
If you have repented of your sins and trusted Christ for salvation, you have passed from death to life and your eternal future is absolutely secure.

I think your worries are arising from your condition. I think that on another thread, I and someone else recommended the book Spiritual Depression by Dr Martyn Lloyd-Jones. I have been reading through it again on my holiday and it really is excellent. Get the book and read it. I'm sure it will be helpful to you.

 

[StefanM]

Stefan,
If you have repented of your sins and trusted Christ for salvation, you have passed from death to life and your eternal future is absolutely secure.

I think your worries are arising from your condition. I think that on another thread, I and someone else recommended the book Spiritual Depression by Dr Martyn Lloyd-Jones. I have been reading through it again on my holiday and it really is excellent. Get the book and read it. I'm sure it will be helpful to you.

I can understand why you would read my post from this perspective, but I'm actually asking this one out of general interest.

 

[Yeshua1]

I can understand why you would read my post from this perspective, but I'm actually asking this one out of general interest.

God seals us with the Holy Spirit, so to break His bond to us, would haveto overpower Him first!

 

[StefanM]

God seals us with the Holy Spirit, so to break His bond to us, would haveto overpower Him first!

The assumption inherent in the question is God would have to permit a loss of salvation. It wouldn't be a matter of losing salvation by overpowering a God unwilling to let go.

 

[Yeshua1]

The assumption inherent in the question is God would have to permit a loss of salvation. It wouldn't be a matter of losing salvation by overpowering a God unwilling to let go.

Jesus answered that, as He stated that not ONE the Father gave to Him would be lost again!

 

[Marooncat79]

Hebrews 6 says says if you can lose it you can never be saved. Again

Ie, it is impossible to renew them again"

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Stefan,
If you have repented of your sins and trusted Christ for salvation, you have passed from death to life and your eternal future is absolutely secure.

I think your worries are arising from your condition. I think that on another thread, I and someone else recommended the book Spiritual Depression by Dr Martyn Lloyd-Jones. I have been reading through it again on my holiday and it really is excellent. Get the book and read it. I'm sure it will be helpful to you.

That ML-J book is on my desk and used quite frequently as is his Sermon on the Mount book...of course you can get them on line as well.
Somewhere Spergion should be mentioned cause he suffered from depression but I'm really not studied in him as much as Lloyd Jones.

 

[Revmitchell]

Think the ONLY reason t hold to that is a desire to keep "real free will" alive!

Probably one of the dumbest posts on this board. Ever

 

[kyredneck]

Probably one of the dumbest posts on this board. Ever

One of many of the ugly posts made by 'the Reverend'.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

One of many of the ugly posts made by 'the Reverend'.

" Love your neighbor as yourself"

 

[kyredneck]

" Love your neighbor as yourself"

Lol, fine ensample to the flock, is he not? ....Reverend, seriously?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Oh yea....

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

BTW Larry...I am beginning to understand the choice made by those who say they are regenerated but live miserable lives...ie they choose not to accept the joy of living in the kingdom.

 

[kyredneck]

regenerated but live miserable lives...ie they choose not to accept the joy

Lol, is it like the words of Obi Wan Konobe, "It is your destiny Luke".

Was this Jacob's destiny?:

9 And Jacob said unto Pharaoh, The days of the years of my pilgrimage are a hundred and thirty years: few and evil have been the days of the years of my life, and they have not attained unto the days of the years of the life of my fathers in the days of their pilgrimage.
10 And Jacob blessed Pharaoh, and went out from the presence of Pharaoh. Gen 47

...and yet he blessed Pharaoh!

Ah, I still like Abraham Lincoln's quote:

"Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be."

I say that to myself a lot.

 

[rsr]

As an Augustinian soteriologist, I think the doctrine of perseverance is perhaps the weakest of the traditional doctrines. According to Augustine, perseverance is indeed a gift of God, but not necessarily granted to all the elect, though it may be.

I had a long conversation on this topic with a Free Will Baptist friend 40 years ago. I think I was right in arguing for perseverance then, and I will argue for it now.

Still, I am not totally convinced on a personal level.

I am convinced, however, that those who worry about it have no reason for concern; an unregenerate person doesn't care one way or the other. Read Bunyan, who repeatedly passed through great darkness until he was surprised by joy. Those who do not desire God care not; those who desire God will not be disappointed. Upon this, for different reasons, Arminians and Calvinists agree.

 

[Aaron]

Hebrews 6 says says if you can lose it you can never be saved. Again

Ie, it is impossible to renew them again"

Hebrews 6 says says if you can lose it you can never be saved. Again

Ie, it is impossible to renew them again"

If . . .

It's dogs that return to their vomit, and swine that go back to the mire. Not sheep.

 

[Yeshua1]

As an Augustinian soteriologist, I think the doctrine of perseverance is perhaps the weakest of the traditional doctrines. According to Augustine, perseverance is indeed a gift of God, but not necessarily granted to all the elect, though it may be.

I had a long conversation on this topic with a Free Will Baptist friend 40 years ago. I think I was right in arguing for perseverance then, and I will argue for it now.

Still, I am not totally convinced on a personal level.

I am convinced, however, that those who worry about it have no reason for concern; an unregenerate person doesn't care one way or the other. Read Bunyan, who repeatedly passed through great darkness until he was surprised by joy. Those who do not desire God care not; those who desire God will not be disappointed. Upon this, for different reasons, Arminians and Calvinists agree.

I would look towards the truh that God sealed us in the Holy Spiri, and gave us new natures that cannot decide to totally turn away, asboth the Spirit and nw natures will resist tat in theend!