I was raised AOG, and even they would hold to only Apostates losing salvation!
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The case for the possibility of losing salvation?
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Man is a three fold being and so is his salvation. The "spirit" is what is born again (Jn. 3:6) and thus has been Aorist tense "saved" once and for all time. The human body "shall be saved" at His coming by the resurrection and transformation. Hence, we have thus far a past tense and a future tense salvation. The "soul" of man is BEING SAVED and is the present tense progressive aspect. The "soul" refers to are conscious self (will, emotions, intellect). The soul expression is the words and actions that give expression to our daily "life" and that is why the Greek term is also translated "life." The internal actions of the soul and its expression in words and actions is our works or expression of our daily life. Thus as a man thinketh in his heart so is he. Although our "soul" (conscious self) cannot be lost, the soul expression (daily life of words and actions) can be lost and thus the loss of our "life." Our life can be lost or saved on a daily basis. It is being saved as we "walk in the Spirit" by making those words and actions count for the glory of Christ and thus saved in the form of future reward, position and outward glorious display in our bodies in heaven. However, whenever we walk in the flesh, that soul expression (daily life manifest in words and actions) is being lost for the cause of Christ. The salvation of our soul/life is in rewards in heaven and manifest by the glory of the resurrected body and position in heaven. Some true children of God will "suffer loss" IN HEAVEN while others will gain much (1 Cor. 3:12-15).
The scriptures dealing with the loss of salvation by true children of God neither applies to the condition of the spirit or their body but to their soul/life. As a true child of God your life can be lost for time and eternity in the cause of Christ. How you live daily determines if you are "redeeming the time" or suffering loss of YOUR LIFE.
The other passages refer to false professors who do not continue in the faith they professed (1 Jn. 2:19) but turn anti-Christ or against Christ.
The scriptures dealing with the loss of salvation by true children of God neither applies to the condition of the spirit or their body but to their soul/life. As a true child of God your life can be lost for time and eternity in the cause of Christ. How you live daily determines if you are "redeeming the time" or suffering loss of YOUR LIFE.
The other passages refer to false professors who do not continue in the faith they professed (1 Jn. 2:19) but turn anti-Christ or against Christ.
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If one knows God then how can he say he never knew God?
Those who claim they can lose their salvation often claim that salvation is by faith in Jesus but you lose it by works. So in essence salvation is gained by faith and lost by works. Makes no sense to me.
Those who claim they can lose their salvation often claim that salvation is by faith in Jesus but you lose it by works. So in essence salvation is gained by faith and lost by works. Makes no sense to me.
Exodus 33 God is speaking of the Israelite's that worshiped the golden calf..he is speaking present tense not future tense! Revelation 3:5 is the same for anyone that overcomes satan! How do you overcome satan? By believing in Christ and repenting of your sinful life! The only sin unto death is unbelief..or the rejection of Christ, if you go to the grave in unbelief then you will be blotted out of the book of life!
John 10
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.
Verse 27 is not a condition but a characteristic of the sheep.
English does not allow a double negative, however Koine does - in verse 28 literally we have "and they shall no not (ou mea) perish" or - they shall never ever perish (vernacular)".
No being can extract them from His hand.
The father who is greater than ALL will not do it neither allow it.
Jesus and the Father are one.
John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out (another double negative).
If you haven't already - come to Him now!
Proverbs 29:25 The fear of man bringeth a snare: but whoso putteth his trust in the LORD shall be safe.
HankD
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.
Verse 27 is not a condition but a characteristic of the sheep.
English does not allow a double negative, however Koine does - in verse 28 literally we have "and they shall no not (ou mea) perish" or - they shall never ever perish (vernacular)".
No being can extract them from His hand.
The father who is greater than ALL will not do it neither allow it.
Jesus and the Father are one.
John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out (another double negative).
If you haven't already - come to Him now!
Proverbs 29:25 The fear of man bringeth a snare: but whoso putteth his trust in the LORD shall be safe.
HankD
The only sin unto death is unbelief..or the rejection of Christ, if you go to the grave in unbelief then you will be blotted out of the book of life![/QUOTE]
Are you saying every man from Adam unto today
has had his name in the book of life and that the only way names it will be blotted of the book of life is if mankind does not believe. Is this a correct interpretation? I never seen it that way before.
Are you saying every man from Adam unto today
has had his name in the book of life and that the only way names it will be blotted of the book of life is if mankind does not believe. Is this a correct interpretation? I never seen it that way before.
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Are you saying every man from Adam unto today
has had his name in the book of life and that the only way names it will be blotted of the book of life is if mankind does not believe. Is this a correct interpretation? I never seen it that way before.[/QUOTE]
All those that go to their grave in unbelief from Adam until today will be blotted out of the book of life, yes! Unbelief is a rejection of Christ, this shouldn't be difficult to understand!
John 3:18-19
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Exodus 32:33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.
Mercy is hard to come by under the law but even under the law those condemned by the law were offered mercy through the prophets.
Ezekiel 18
20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
The "verb" in verse 20- "sinneth" is called a Qal Participle - a verbal adjective which functions as a noun. "sinneth" has the definite article as well:
"The soul, the sinful one" One who sins continuously or practices sin as in the NT (1 John 3:8).
J Weingreen, 1959. A Practical Grammar For Classical Hebrew, pg 66.Oxford Press.
Presumably this is a person who is in the state of original sin, unregenerate.
" him will I blot out of my book" or a metaphor "he shall die in his sin".
At his death he will be blotted out of the book.
"Blessed assurance" under the law was a difficult but not an impossible status especially after grievous sin of which David complained.
Psalm 119:1 ALEPH. Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.
2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.
3 They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways.
4 Thou hast commanded us to keep thy precepts diligently.
5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
6 Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments.
In the Ezekiel 18:24 passage the righteous who commits iniquity and/or abominations - these sins are not grammatically referenced as the fruit of the participial state of being but those sins of punctiliar actions.
However, he will also shall die in his sins, the outcome presumably different (saved, yet so as by fire) than the one who "practices sin" as in Ezekiel 18:20 and 1 John 3:8
NAS 1 John 3:8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, that He might destroy the works of the devil.
Admittedly its a complex situation but that's my interpretation of Exodus 32:33.
HankD
Are you saying every man from Adam unto today
has had his name in the book of life and that the only way names it will be blotted of the book of life is if mankind does not believe. Is this a correct interpretation? I never seen it that way before.[/QUOTE]
The truth is that ALL are already condemned, as until salvation, are sinners and are at war with God, and need to get saved!
All those that go to their grave in unbelief from Adam until today will be blotted out of the book of life, yes! Unbelief is a rejection of Christ, this shouldn't be difficult to understand!
John 3:18-19
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.[/QUOTE]
God already judged all in Adam as being lost/condemned, so all are out of the Book until salvation happened...
God already judged all in Adam as being lost/condemned, so all are out of the Book until salvation happened...[/QUOTE]
Say what? That makes absolutely no sense! There has not been one judged yet!
The truth is that ALL are already condemned, as until salvation, are sinners and are at war with God, and need to get saved![/QUOTE]
All of WHO is condemned?
Say what? That makes absolutely no sense! There has not been one judged yet![/QUOTE]
ALL who reject Jesus are already guilty, so that means all of us before being saved!
Would you agree that God chose from the beginning who would be saved and who would not? So why does God blot unbelievers names from the lambs book of life? Are you saying that God is looking down the corridors of time to see who will come to him and who will not? So the moment the unbeliever dies God is blotting his name out of the lambs book of life. This seems strange to me I believe the lambs book of life has always had believers names only. He already knows the beginning from the end.
Of course it seems strange to us. The way God thinks and behaves is beyond our capability to know - perhaps even in eternity.
Isaiah 55
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Yes, He already knows the beginning from the end. Even at that He says:
RSV Genesis 6:7 So the LORD said, "I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the ground, man and beast and creeping things and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them."
So, there may very well be some plausible explanation for the seeming contradiction which we have not the capacity to grasp (or not).
In any case God behaves as He chooses and perhaps He has decided to meet us where we are.
We can't figure Him out. So when He says He was sorry He created us, personally I accept it at face value and try as His child to please Him and not grieve Him.
He exists in eternity and has entered the time continuum, so right there we are bound to face a limitation in our understanding of what that means.
HankD
Hello Tim71. Welcome to the Baptist Board. I'm pleased to see that you have an avatar of A.W. Pink.
Would you like to go to the Introductions forum and tell us something about yourself.
I am not inclined to think that one can be written into the book of life and then blotted out and maybe then written in again. God does not actually need such a book (2 Timothy 2:19), There are actually several heavenly books mentioned in the Bible. There is the scroll that Ezekiel had to eat (Ezekiel 3:1; there is the 'book of remembrance' in Malachi 3:16; there is a sort of scroll of curses in Zechariah 5:1-4, as well as the 'book of the living' in Psalm 69:28, which may correspond to the book of life mentioned in Revelation 3:5; 13:8; 20:15.
I think the 'blotting out' in Exodus 32:33 has to do with the fact that no everyone in the Old Covenant was saved. In the New Covenant, everyone knows the Lord and is saved (Hebrews 8:10-12). Everyone in the NC will persevere to the end and will therefore not be blotted out of the book.
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