The genuine gospel is neither Arminian nor Calvinist

[AndThisGospel]

How do you equate the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit with unbelief? Did Jesus ever say unbelief was the unpardonable sin?

Yes....

John 16:8 And He (God's Spirit), when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; 9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me (i.e., Christ)...

Heb 6:4 "For it is impossible in the case of those who have once been enlightened, tasted the heavenly gift, become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 tasted the good word of God and the miracles of the coming age, 6 and then have committed apostasy (rejected Christ), to renew them again to repentance, since they are crucifying the Son of God for themselves all over again and holding him up to contempt."

 

[TCassidy]

Yes....

John 16:8 And He (God's Spirit), when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; 9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me (i.e., Christ)...

Heb 6:4 "For it is impossible in the case of those who have once been enlightened, tasted the heavenly gift, become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 tasted the good word of God and the miracles of the coming age, 6 and then have committed apostasy (rejected Christ), to renew them again to repentance, since they are crucifying the Son of God for themselves all over again and holding him up to contempt."

Maybe I missed it but I don't see where any of that says that unbelief is the unpardonable sin. Could you point it out to me? Thanks.

 

[AndThisGospel]

What Mr. Knight states is not what the Bible states...

 

[AndThisGospel]

Maybe I missed it but I don't see where any of that says that unbelief is the unpardonable sin. Could you point it out to me? Thanks.

The Holy Spirit convicts the sinner that he/she needs to put his/her faith in Christ. To reject this conviction is harden one's heart against Christ.

“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." John 3:18

 

[AndThisGospel]

But he said that ALL sins were atoned for. If they were atoned for they cannot be held against the person."

Persistent belief is rejection of God's Spirit in His effort to convict the sinner of his need of Christ. It's just that simple. It's called "the sin of unbelief", but it's not the same as transgression.

Paul, in Romans 7:7, states that "I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, 'You shall not covet.'"

Sin is defined as the transgression of the law (i.e., the moral law - the Ten commandments). Since we are born in sin we naturally transgress. Transgression brings "the curse of the law". Christ has delivered us from under law by becoming a curse for us. Those who reject Christ invite death. Those who reject Christ wish to remain "under the law". To be under law means death - the 2nd death.

Again, persistent rejection of Christ is the unpardonable sin. It's the one sin that can't be pardoned because the sinner has rejected forgiveness in Christ Jesus.

 

[AndThisGospel]

What then is the gospel?

The short answer is the gospel is the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the Son of Man plus nothing.

The longer answer requires a bit more in-depth study. I'll attempt this a bit later....

To understand the gospel we must first understand from what Christ came to deliver us.

According to Matthew 1:21 Mary was to name her baby boy "Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.”

So clearly Jesus came to save us from our sins.

What does this mean?

We have two possible answers:

1. He came to teach us how to stop sinning so we could go to heaven
2. He came to deliver us from under the death penalty, the 2nd death, for transgressing the moral law.

I reject answer # 1 because this is legalistic. Therefore # 2 is the answer.

Christ came to save the human race from "the curse of the law".

Gal 4:4 "But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to Sonship"

 

[TCassidy]

Again, persistent rejection of Christ is the unpardonable sin.

But prior to salvation we all rejected Christ and, therefore, according to your theory, we have all sinned the unpardonable sin and are all destined for hell.

And where does the bible say that rejection of Christ is the unpardonable sin? Most competent bible expositors say the unpardonable sin was seeing Christ do miracles while here on earth and attributing the power to do those miracles to Satan.

It's the one sin that can't be pardoned because the sinner has rejected forgiveness in Christ Jesus.

As did we all, so, according to your theory nobody can be saved because we all sinned the unpardonable sin.

 

[TCassidy]

The Holy Spirit convicts the sinner that he/she needs to put his/her faith in Christ. To reject this conviction is harden one's heart against Christ.

“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." John 3:18

I still don't see where any of that says that unbelief is the unpardonable sin. Could you point it out to me? Thanks.

 

[AndThisGospel]

But prior to salvation we all rejected Christ and, therefore, according to your theory, we have all sinned the unpardonable sin and are all destined for hell.

The only sin that is unpardonable is the sin of unbelief and, just like faith is a willful submission to the truth as it is in Christ, unbelief is a willful rejection to the truth that is in Christ. ..

Apparently you did not persistently reject the Spirit of Grace, right? So you didn't commit the unpardonable sin.

The unpardonable sin is a sin against grace and not a sin against the law. The unpardonable sin is rejecting the spirit of grace and that’s how the Bible defines it

 

[AndThisGospel]

To understand the gospel we must first understand from what Christ came to deliver us.

According to Matthew 1:21 Mary was to name her baby boy "Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.”

So clearly Jesus came to save us from our sins.

What does this mean?

We have two possible answers:

1. He came to teach us how to stop sinning so we could go to heaven
2. He came to deliver us from under the death penalty, the 2nd death, for transgressing the moral law.

I reject answer # 1 because this is legalistic. Therefore # 2 is the answer.

Christ came to save the human race from "the curse of the law".

Gal 4:4 "But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to Sonship"

So Christ came to save the fallen, human race from "under law" to under grace. The question is how did He do it?

 

[TCassidy]

The only sin that is unpardonable is the sin of unbelief and, just like faith is a willful submission to the truth as it is in Christ, unbelief is a willful rejection to the truth that is in Christ. ..

I see. The way to have your sins forgiven is to just stop sinning!

Apparently you did not persistently reject the Spirit of Grace, right?

Oh but I did! For 27 years!

The unpardonable sin is rejecting the spirit of grace and that’s how the Bible defines it

And where does the bible say that?

Here, let me help you a bit.

Mark 3:22-30 states, “And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem said, ‘He has Beelzebub,’ and, ‘By the ruler of the demons He casts out demons.’ …‘Assuredly, I [Jesus] say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation;’ because they said, ‘He has an unclean spirit’”

In Matthew 12:31-32, Jesus says to the Pharisees, “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come”

So, there is what the bible says about the unpardonable sin. Please point out where it says the unpardonable sin is rejecting Christ.

 

[Rippon]

What Mr. Knight states is not what the Bible states...

You mean how most English translations render it. But the ISV has it right.

 

[JamesL]

George W. Knight the third, posits "who is the Savior of all people,, that is, of those who believe."

malista = "that is" ??

 

[AndThisGospel]

I see. The way to have your sins forgiven is to just stop sinning!

I'm not sure how you reached that conclusion at all....???

Oh but I did! For 27 years!

My point is you didn't persist...you didn't fully and ultimately harden your heart. If you did we wouldn't be having this conversation.

".... but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come”....

So, there is what the bible says about the unpardonable sin. Please point out where it says the unpardonable sin is rejecting Christ.

How does one "speak against the Holy Spirit"?

The Scribes accused Jesus of casting out demons using the power of Satan instead of the power of the Holy Spirit. Does that not prove a harden heart? What does a harden heart do? It ultimately rejects Christ doesn't it? And why? Because it has rejected the Holy Spirit who turns men's hearts towards Christ the Savior of mankind.

 

[AndThisGospel]

This discussion has become focused in on the unpardonable sin instead of the gospel. I'll start another discussion and I'll name it "the gospel according to Paul"

 

[Revmitchell]

But he said that ALL sins were atoned for. If they were atoned for they cannot be held against the person. That would be double jeopardy.

Unless you are saying the sin of unbelief is unforgivable, in which case, as we were all unbelievers before we were saved then our sin of unbelief would not be atoned for and we are all on our way to hell?

Your assumption is that atoning was all that is necessary. Also the problem with unbelief is not simply that it is a sin. Otherwise not even the elect would ever have to believe. They would be saved without belief just because they are the elect.

 

[Yeshua1]

But he said that ALL sins were atoned for. If they were atoned for they cannot be held against the person. That would be double jeopardy.

Unless you are saying the sin of unbelief is unforgivable, in which case, as we were all unbelievers before we were saved then our sin of unbelief would not be atoned for and we are all on our way to hell?

Then that was the sin Jesu did not die to atone for?

 

[Yeshua1]

This discussion has become focused in on the unpardonable sin instead of the gospel. I'll start another discussion and I'll name it "the gospel according to Paul"

Which would be the same as Jesus, in that Christ died to secure savation for those of His own flock!

 

[Yeshua1]

Your assumption is that atoning was all that is necessary. Also the problem with unbelief is not simply that it is a sin. Otherwise not even the elect would ever have to believe. They would be saved without belief just because they are the elect.

A suicide would have had unbelief operating, so all of them were lost?

 

[TCassidy]

Your assumption is that atoning was all that is necessary.

All that is necessary to pay for sin? Yes. That is what "atonement" means. To pay the debt. As Jesus said on the cross, "It is finished." Paid in full.

Also the problem with unbelief is not simply that it is a sin.

And what else is it?

Otherwise not even the elect would ever have to believe.

Exactly my point. If sins are atoned for, and that atonement is applied to everyone, then everyone is saved. If everyone is not saved by the atonement then nobody is saved by the atonement. If the atonement is insufficient to save anyone it is insufficient to save everyone. And faith is the result of regeneration, not the atonement nor election.

They would be saved without belief just because they are the elect.

I think you may have conflated regeneration and salvation. A person is regenerated while in unbelief, which results in faith, repentance, and obedience. That then results in positional salvation from the penalty for sin, progressive salvation from the power of sin, and eventual permanent salvation from the presence of sin.