Hebrews Jesus died to save the many, and only those in Him are spared the wrath of God, ALL of us under judgement beforecoming to Christ...
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
The genuine gospel is neither Arminian nor Calvinist
- Thread starter AndThisGospel
- Start date
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
He has provoded the means to have all potentially saved by His death, but actually, only he elect shall come to Him to be saved!"...through one act of righteousness [Christ's] there resulted justification of life to all men."
When the Son of Man died upon the cross our fallen life from Adam died also. See Rom 6:6/7:4. Christ's death was a corporate death, therefore "One died for all, therefore all died." 2 Cor 5:14
Christ has legally justified the entire fallen human race in Himself. To reject Christ is to remain under "the cruse of the law" - which is the 2nd death. See Gal 3:10/Rev 20:14
Hi death is suffent to have saved all, but only those whom God chosen will get saved!
AndThisGospel
Member
He has provoded the means to have all potentially saved by His death, but actually, only he elect shall come to Him to be saved!
The Bible, especially Paul, doesn't state that Christ's death, which was your death, and Christ's resurrection, which was your resurrection, was provisional.
Let's go to Hebrews 9:25 "Nor did He (Christ) enter to offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26 For then He would have had to suffer repeatedly since the world was created, but now He has appeared once at the end of the ages to put away sin by sacrificing Himself."
If you were saved when you believed then Christ "would have to suffer repeatedly", i.e., He would have to die again and again for everyone who believes.
Faith is a response to what Christ has already accomplished. Christ death, which was your death to the law, happened once for all men.
Clearly Calvin was in error.....
AndThisGospel
Member
Jesus died to save the many.....
Please go back and read my response to "the many". "The many" clearly means "all".
Romans 5:15 "For if by the transgression of the one (Adam) the many died..."
Romans 5:1 "... as through one man (Adam) sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men..."
Last edited:
his death was sufficiet to be able to save all sinners, but is applied only towards the elect in Christ."...through one act of righteousness [Christ's] there resulted justification of life to all men."
When the Son of Man died upon the cross our fallen life from Adam died also. See Rom 6:6/7:4. Christ's death was a corporate death, therefore "One died for all, therefore all died." 2 Cor 5:14
Christ has legally justified the entire fallen human race in Himself. To reject Christ is to remain under "the cruse of the law" - which is the 2nd death. See Gal 3:10/Rev 20:14
No, for the same Hebrews author stated that Jesu was High Priest and able to save forever many. correct? not all?The Bible, especially Paul, doesn't state that Christ's death, which was your death, and Christ's resurrection, which was your resurrection, was provisional.
Let's go to Hebrews 9:25 "Nor did He (Christ) enter to offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26 For then He would have had to suffer repeatedly since the world was created, but now He has appeared once at the end of the ages to put away sin by sacrificing Himself."
If you were saved when you believed then Christ "would have to suffer repeatedly", i.e., He would have to die again and again for everyone who believes.
Faith is a response to what Christ has already accomplished. Christ death, which was your death to the law, happened once for all men.
Clearly Calvin was in error.....
AndThisGospel
Member
his death was sufficiet to be able to save all sinners, but is applied only towards the elect in Christ.
No, it did save all sinners, but God will not force this finished work upon the unbeliever. He must chose to accept this historical account. For those who refuse the gospel the law will be their judge.
If it did save all sinners, then God failed, as many will still be lost!No, it did save all sinners, but God will not force this finished work upon the unbeliever. He must chose to accept this historical account. For those who refuse the gospel the law will be their judge.
AndThisGospel
Member
No, for the same Hebrews author stated that Jesu was High Priest and able to save forever many. correct? not all?
You completely missed my point. My point was Christ's death, and hence your death to the law, was done about 2000 years ago. Hence before you came from your mother you were already "justified unto life" (Rom 5:18) "in Christ Jesus". If not, then Christ must die again and again every time a sinner believes.
We were born astray from th womb, as were are sinners by birth and choice, and are lost until saved by God whn we believe in Jesus! Then redeemed/reconciled/justified etc!You completely missed my point. My point was Christ's death, and hence your death to the law, was done about 2000 years ago. Hence before you came from your mother you were already "justified unto life" (Rom 5:18) "in Christ Jesus". If not, then Christ must die again and again every time a sinner believes.
AndThisGospel
Member
...saved by God when we believe in Jesus! Then redeemed/reconciled/justified etc!
No, no, no...all backwards.
When you get to heaven will you say "I was saved because I did something - that is, my faith saved me?"
I hope not because your "faith" is not your Savior. Christ saved you 2000 years ago, you received it through faith. Faith is the channel by which you received what had already been accomplished in the birth, life, death and resurrection of Christ.
It is the goodness of God that leads one to faith and repentance (Romans 2:4). Hence, faith is not allowing God or giving Him permission to put us into Christ but accepting with grateful hearts what God has already accomplished for mankind in Christ (1 Corinthians 1:30-31; 2 Corinthians 5:18-20; Ephesians 1:3-4).
AndThisGospel
Member
... saved by God when we believe in Jesus!
Let's see when God saved you:
Rom 5:8 "God proves his love (agape) for us in that while we were still sinners Christ died for us....10 ...while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son"
Eph 2:5 " ...even when we were dead in transgressions – it is by grace you have been saved. "
God saved you "in Christ" when you were an enemy of God - while you were fully living for your fallen nature (the flesh).
Jesus death and resurrection is what saves me , but I MUST receive Jesus thru faith in order to get saved!No, no, no...all backwards.
When you get to heaven will you say "I was saved because I did something - that is, my faith saved me?"
I hope not because your "faith" is not your Savior. Christ saved you 2000 years ago, you received it through faith. Faith is the channel by which you received what had already been accomplished in the birth, life, death and resurrection of Christ.
It is the goodness of God that leads one to faith and repentance (Romans 2:4). Hence, faith is not allowing God or giving Him permission to put us into Christ but accepting with grateful hearts what God has already accomplished for mankind in Christ (1 Corinthians 1:30-31; 2 Corinthians 5:18-20; Ephesians 1:3-4).
He is NOT saying that God did that for/towards all sinners, but only for those now saved!Let's see when God saved you:
Rom 5:8 "God proves his love (agape) for us in that while we were still sinners Christ died for us....10 ...while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son"
Eph 2:5 " ...even when we were dead in transgressions – it is by grace you have been saved. "
God saved you "in Christ" when you were an enemy of God - while you were fully living for your fallen nature (the flesh).
AndThisGospel
Member
Wrong!.....He is NOT saying that God did that for/towards all sinners, but only for those now saved!
AndThisGospel
Member
Jesus death and resurrection is what saves me , but I MUST receive Jesus thru faith in order to get saved!
Correction....It is what saved you "in Christ". Yes, when you hear the good news you need to accept it. If not, you can harden your heart and reject the gospel. That brings "the cruse of the law"....
Th elect are the ones wom the death of Jesu provided atoneent for, so they will ccept, an te rest stay lost in sins. ALL sinners bfore salvation are lost in sns, not reconciled back to God!Correction....It is what saved you "in Christ". Yes, when you hear the good news you need to accept it. If not, you can harden your heart and reject the gospel. That brings "the cruse of the law"....
The death of Christ was intended to save the elect by God in Chrit, as all others stay lost in sins, and just the elect are reconciled to God!Wrong!.....
AndThisGospel
Member
The elect are the ones whom the death of Jesus provided atonement for....
"You died to the law in the body of Christ" Rom 7:4 Hence "our old self was crucified with Christ" See Roman 6:6. When Christ died, all men died in Him. See 2 Cor 5:14
The gospel that you present, Yeshua, is what Paul called "another gospel", which is really no gospel at all.
Those quotes apply only towards the saved, s the Gospe according to Paul works only for the redeemed in Christ, as his saying about now alivein Christ fits only te saved!"You died to the law in the body of Christ" Rom 7:4 Hence "our old self was crucified with Christ" See Roman 6:6. When Christ died, all men died in Him. See 2 Cor 5:14
The gospel that you present, Yeshua, is what Paul called "another gospel", which is really no gospel at all.
Your view istefalse one, s you he God reconcilin all sinners back to Himself while ewere also still his enemies!
- Status
- Not open for further replies.