Featured Free Will, Determinism, and Compatiblism

I would offer a more simple explanation.
There is no free will.
We do make choices as a free moral agent.
Our will is bound by our nature.
Upon glorification we will no longer be able to sin.

this is helpful from the reformed reader;
Chapter Three

Free Will and Free Agency



In the last two chapters we have considered free will and man’s four-fold state. A brief summary will be helpful as we continue:

1. Man, in his state of innocency, had freedom and power to will and to do that which is good and well pleasing to God; but that state was mutable, or changeable, so that he was able to fall from it.
   
   
2. Man, by his fall into a state of sin, has entirely lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation; therefore, as a natural man, being altogether averse to that good, and dead in sin, he is not able, by his own strength, to convert himself or to prepare himself for salvation.
   
   
3. When God converts a sinner, and translates him into the state of grace, He frees him from his natural bondage under sin, and by His grace alone enables him freely to will and to do that which is spiritually good; yet, by reason of his remaining corruption, he also wills that which is evil.
   
   
4. The will of man is made perfectly and immutably free to do good alone in the state of glory only. Any study of the will of man is incomplete without some explanation of the difference between free will and free agency. I am using free as meaning “independent, sovereign, autonomous,” that is, “not subject to the rule or control of another.”
   

An agent is “one who acts, performs an act, or has power to act—a moving force.” Man is a free moral agent, but he does not have a free will. Man is only free to act according to his nature, and he was born with a sinful nature (see Ps. 5 1:5).

One does not pursue the study of free will and free agency very far until he comes head on with an apparent contradiction (note well, I said “apparent”). We must, in all candor, acknowledge these apparent contradictions. They deserve some serious, thoughtful consideration. For example, we must address God’s commands and man’s inability—God’s sovereignty and man’s responsibility.

 

pt2;
Thus the Arminian and the Calvinist differ on their qualifying conditions of what makes up a free will. The Calvinist believes the man is free to choose and act in accordance with his nature. The Arminian, with his Pelagian roots denying moral depravity, believes that the will can make choices which are completely untainted by his nature and thus has a “free will.” In contrast, the Calvinist believes man is a free agent—free to act according to his own nature.

Free agency is not to be confused with “free will.” Because of the fall, men have lost their ability—the will—to obey God, but they are just as responsible to God to obey perfectly His commands. Thus Spurgeon could say, “I dread more than anything your being left to your own free will.” Arminianism, alongside hyper-Calvinisrn, argues that sinners cannot be required to do what they are not able to do, namely, to believe in Christ for salvation, since the ability to believe belongs only to the elect and is only given at a time determined by the Spirit of God. They say, “For a preacher to call all his hearers to immediate repentance and faith is to deny both human depravity and sovereign grace.” So they say.

Spurgeon says this on the implications of free will:

According to the free will scheme, the Lord intends good, but he must wait like a lackey on his own creature to know what his intention is; God willeth good and would do it but he cannot because he has an unwilling man who will not have God’s good thing carried into effect. What do ye, sirs, but drag the Eternal from his throne and lift up into it that fallen creature, man; for man, according to that theory, nods and his nod is destiny. You must have a destiny somewhere; it must either be as God wills or as man wills. If it be as God wills, then Jehovah sits as sovereign upon his throne of glory, and all hosts obey him, and the world is safe; if not God, then you put man there to say, “I will,” or “I will not; if I will it, I will enter heaven; if I will it, I will despise the grace of God; if I will it, I will conquer the Holy Spirit, for I am stronger than God and stronger than omnipotence; if I will it, I will make the blood of Christ of no effect, for I am mightier than the blood, mightier than the blood of the Son of God himself; though God make his purpose, yet will I laugh at his purpose; it shall be my purpose that shall make his purpose stand or fall.” Why, sirs, if this be not atheism, it is idolatry; it is putting man where God should be; and I shrink with solemn awe and horror from that doctrine which makes the grandest of God’s works—the salvation of man—to be dependent upon the will of his creature whether it shall be accomplished or not. Glory I can and must in my text in its fullest sense. “It is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy” (Romans 9:16).6

Our Lord’s mission was not to save all whom He addressed; it was to save out of them as many as His Father gave Him: “All that the Father gives Me will come to Me” (John 6:37).

O unconverted man, your will is no place on which to fix your hope—the will cannot set itself free. Only God can set the prisoner free.

http://www.reformedreader.org/rbb/reisinger/gwmwfwch03.htm

 

here is another;
http://www.reformationtheology.com/2006/09/free_will_vs_free_agency.php
Free will vs. Free Agency
Visitor: What's the difference between freewill and free-agency?

Response: While descriptions may vary, I find the following explanation to be helpful. When it is said that people have no "free will" it does not mean that a person is coerced from the outside and must act against his will. Let that be clear up front. With this in mind, it is important that we learn to distinguish coersion vs. necessity. We are indeed free of external coersion but not free of necessity. Let me explain:

What we mean by denying a (fallen) person has free will is that he/she will act, by necessity, according to the corruption of his/her nature. They are in bondage to sin meaning the love of God and His law are not the unregenerate persons' deepest animating motive and principle (nor is it his motive at all), in anything he does. No one is coercing a sinner to act as they do. Man eagerly volunteers his submission to sin. This means, the unregenerate person will always choose according to who they are by nature, driven by their disposition. In other words, our choices are all voluntary, but we are not free to choose otherwise because we will not understand spiritual things (1 Cor 2:14) and indeed are hostile to them, according to Scripture. Men love darkness and hate the light and will not come into the light (John 3:19, 20) Without the Holy Spirit, man, by nature, is hostile to Christ. In other words, we are in bondage to sin until Christ sets us free. Jesus himself says that a bad tree cannot bear good fruit, that a thornbush cannot bear figs. Jesus is teaching us that the nature of a thing determines BY NECESSITY (not coersion) the direction he/she will take.


Consider the concept of free will by applying it to God Himself. If freedom were defined as the freedom to choose otherwise, let us ask ourselves, does God have such freedom to choose otherwise? In other words, can God freely choose to do good or evil as He pleases? No, of course not. God in his essence is holy and therefore, by definition, cannot sin or be unholy. If he sinned or broke His sure promise He would no longer be God. The same kind of example can be applied to the glorified saints in heaven. God has sealed them in righteousness and they can no longer sin, and more than this, they have no ability to sin or choose otherwise. Yet we consider them the MOST free of all creatures.

Thus the Bible defines freedom, not as the freedom to choose otherwise in any way we please (contrary to our innate disposition), but as holiness, freedom from sin. Read Romans chapter 6. When Jesus says He will set people free, He does not say they are now free to choose good or evil but He will set them free from the bondage of sin. And where there is bondage, by definition there is no freedom. Yes we have free agency, that is, we can voluntarily choose according to our desires, but because our desires are in bondage to corruption of nature this is not freedom in the Biblical sense. Liberation of the will occurs when the Holy Spirit acts to free us.

Consider the opposite theological position which affirms that God elects people based on some kind of forseen faith. If God already knows who will be saved even before He creates them, then such a reality (their salvation) is fixed and cannot be otherwise. Thus God would be wasting His time to try to convert persons whom He knows will never come to faith. Synergists say that God is trying to save every man, yet such a position is untenable if God already knows who is to be saved, that is, unless you are willing to concede that God is not omniscient, but then you would be denying that He is indeed God.

If God knows the end from the beginning exhaustively then He knows who will be saved even prior to creating them. There is certainty here, an unchangable certainty. An additional problem with this is that it means that there is no real free will in this Arminian foreseen faith position because the future is already certain and cannot be otherwise. Yet in this same view God does not determine this future, and thus something else, like Fate perhaps, determines who will believe. The position is so untenable that many traditional Arminians have fled to become open theists who believe God has no exhaustive foreknowledge of the future. But this heretical view will not stand and is sub-Christian.

Hope this helps

 

I do not hold that all events are determined by God. I also do not believe that His lack of intentional involvement (outside of the laws in which He has already created) changes the level of His sovereignty. God is still sovereign and His purposes and will are always the outcome in this world.

As to salvation I do not believe He purposes individuals to be saved but He does purpose that the world will be saved (John 3:16). His election is corporate, His grace if offered to all, and Salvation is only to those who believe (John 1:12).

 

Agree with you and Spurgeon, as he held to view 3, and also think that some here confuse determination as Hyper cals as same way normal als would see it!

 

Sam Waldron uses that terminology in his commentary on the 1689 confession of faith I just avoided because I know the other people are going to seize on it and for all manner of other definitions into it that I'm not comfortable with

 

The Lord also enables us to be able to understand and to be persuaded, as that is a work o fthe Holy Spirit. All sinners can hear the same Gospel ans persuasion from God, but only those whom God grants ears to hear and hearts to receive will get persuaded.

 

JonC,

I admire Spurgeon for using the gift of God he was given extensively. He took liberties with the text sometimes to attempt to reach the lost and people who were outside the church. He was on point way more than most ....yet all trusted guides need to be searched as to what they teach.

Some speak of Adam and Eve as having original righteousness....yet being untested.

Why I sometimes avoid this kind of discussion is the wording used.....those words were not used...but what was used is suggestive....

dying thou shalt surely die....something went from being alive, to dying
whatever it was....all of us died in him at that point in time as he was the representative man

What could have "died" both in him and subsequently in us,at that point in time?
Most would say our spirit, or what we are by nature.
In other words we as image bearers were broken, and damaged at that point in time.
Man was to be an analogy of God, thinking Gods thoughts after Him. This ability is what was lost, or at least part of what was lost that day.

That was Satan twisting Gods word....God did not tell them that...
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

We can know something of this by looking at the true Image bearer...the Lord Jesus. Adam pre fall was not promised to be glorified as we are In the Last Adam.
psalm 8...hebrews2:5-8

Do you see anywhere that someone repents all by themselves?

 

Revmitchell

You have to clarify your statement......what do you mean exactly?

Is He only a spectator? a sovereign spectator?

He watches what happens, then says it was His purpose?

God does not Purpose to save any individual?

He purposes that the world will be saved....but they are not saved???

How so? He did not elect any single person?
What does this mean?
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Many live and die without hearing of Jesus....how was grace offered to them savingly?

 

God warned them they would taste death ifhe dosobeyed, ad when the fell, physical and spiritual death came unto them and all after them.
Spiritual death is a state apart from God, and an inability to comeback to God, to have access to Him apart from Jesus......
Before tha Fall, perfect unity and relationship with God, afterwards, not so much, as need a Messiah!

 

Good posting, asAdam/Eve were in a state of innocence before Fall, morally perfect, but then became impure and fallen!

 

Think that our Brother holdsto a form of collective salvation plan, in that God elected those in Churchto be the saved, and they are the ones electingting themselves into it by placing faith in Christ!
Book was called Elect in the Son...

 

Sinners;left to theirown devices will keep choosng to reject the light and stay in darlkness...