Featured The Commandments of Jesus Christ

We are to pay our taxes.


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Well since none of us does these things (Romans 3:10-15 etc.), it's a very good thing that we have a Saviour, isn't it?

 

What you quoted applies to Jews only and Jewish charge against themselves.

9What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin;


19Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;


You can find everything you listed in the JEWISH old testament.

He is referencing every time the Jews failed, to show Jews fall under sin just as much as gentiles.


The main point is "the world may become accountable to God;"

Not have some think he is chosen with a license to sin, like plenty Pharisees believed were superior to gentiles.

 

Where's the head-banging smilie when you need it? Just read the very verse you have quoted. The whole purpose of Romans 1:18-3:20 is to prove that both Jew and Gentiles are sinners and under the righteous anger of God. Then from 3:21-8:39, Paul reveals Christ as the perfect Saviour.

 

No he states both Jew and Gentiles are charged by the Jewish Law. He specifically states we are all judged by Jesus Christ:

Romans 2

16on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.


Your trying to apply OLD TESTAMENT quotations where Jews have done wrong at particular times and say that counts as everyone on earth ALL the time.


The very idea everyone is by the law guilty is contrary to : 28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.


If Paul sided with you he would never say:

14For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves,

^ that's impossible. You already made up your mind no one can do things of the law, worst yet he said instinctively do.

Compare what he said right there with your quote: "Well since none of us does these things (Romans 3:10-15 etc.), it's a very good thing that we have a Saviour, isn't it?"

He just told you Gentiles do them. Romans 3 is recounting the Jewish failures because they believe themselves superior because they are CHOSEN-ELECT.

What is told in romans 3 is list of things. AS IS WRITTEN. He is quoting old testament.


He is quoting psalms 14

1The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God.”
They are corrupt, they have committed abominable deeds;
There is no one who does good.
2The LORD has looked down from heaven upon the sons of men
To see if there are any who understand,
Who seek after God.
3They have all turned aside, together they have become corrupt;
There is no one who does good, not even one.
4Do all the workers of wickedness not know,
Who eat up my people as they eat bread,
And do not call upon the Lord?
5There they are in great dread,
For God is with the righteous generation.
6You would put to shame the counsel of the afflicted,
But the LORD is his refuge.
7Oh, that the salvation of Israel would come out of Zion!
When the LORD restores His captive people,
Jacob will rejoice, Israel will be glad.


You want it to mean all mankind for all time.


We can go a psalm before:
Psalm 13

5But I have trusted in Your lovingkindness;
My heart shall rejoice in Your salvation.


And a psalm after

psalm 15
1O LORD, who may abide in Your tent?
Who may dwell on Your holy hill?
2He who walks with integrity, and works righteousness,
And speaks truth in his heart.



Psalm 16

3As for the saints who are in the earth,
They are the majestic ones in whom is all my delight.


Look now everyone is a Saint according to psalms.


Psalms 17

5My steps have held fast to Your paths.
My feet have not slipped.

Look now we got a sinless fellah. I guess everyone in the world is sinless for all time!

This is the same extreme your doing is applied to another old testament scripture.


All Paul is doing is saying look your not exactly a saint compared to gentiles according to Jewish teaching.

 

<<if we do these things we are the church and family of God,
and
if we do not do these things we are not the church and family of God.>>

So you're saying it yourself, that you are a LYING BRAGGART.

 

Roman Catholic heresy.
What you're saying, exactly is, you're a glorified image of Christ compared to sinners who are reckoned just because they're saved by grace, according to Protestant teaching.

 

Yes, it is a good thing that we have a Savior. And orthodoxy has the answer when we fall away from the high standards that were listed - it is called "confession" or in today's world "reconciliation" and it is very biblical.

 

Blasphemy with a holy face

 

I didn't say that, I said I would be if I applied same logic of applying to everyone for all time what psalms only applies to particular people at particular times.


I'm curious though.

Heresy from what? Protestants protesting what?

 

Indeed so. 'If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness' (1 John 1:9). But it is not confession that forgives us our sins it is the shed blood of the Lord Jesus Christ (1 John 1:7). Nor is there some priestly caste so whom we are to confess our sins, sins we are all priests (1 Peter 2:9). We have direct access to the throne of grace and we can confess our sins directly to God (eg. Psalm 51) or, if we feel the need, to each other (James 5:16).

 

Yes, part of what you say is true, but there is a clergy, leaders of the Universal Church who were set apart from the faithful, who existed by the command of God to teach and instruct.

Let us start with the Book of John: "Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you As the Father has sent me,I am sending you.” " And with that he breathed on them and said, Receive the Holy Spirit." "If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

And then we have ordination as expressed in the Book of Acts. "This proposal pleased the whole group. They chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit; also Philip, Procorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas, and Nicolas from Antioch, a convert to Judaism. They presented these men to the apostles, who prayed and laid their hands on them."

"So the word of God spread. The number of disciples in Jerusalem increased rapidly, and a large number of priests became obedient to the faith."

So in the end it is not "blasphemy with a Holy Face", but the truth - solid biblical teaching in the orthodox tradition which has been believed by faithful Christians since the beginning of the newly forming Christian faith.

 

There really, really is not (Matthew 23:8-12). The Apostle Paul was the last of the Apostolic ilk (1 Corinthians 15:8; cf. Acts 1:21-22).

There is no instance in Acts or the epistles of the Apostles either forgiving or withholding forgiveness of sins. Nor is there any instance of the Apostles ordaining anyone to do this or telling them to do it. For "Who can forgive sins but God alone?" Even the Pharisees knew that.
What the Apostles were commissioned to do, and what all true Christians are empowered to do is to tell people that if they repent and trust in Christ, their sins will be forgiven, and if they don't, they won't. That is what Peter was doing in Acts 2:38, and what Paul was doing in Acts 13:38-39.

First of all, there is no suggestion that these men were especially empowered to forgive sins other than as described above.
Secondly, ordination is fine, so long as the man has already been ordained by God for His ministry. Church history is replete with examples of men being ordained who were by no means qualified to take any office (cf. Acts 20:28-30). Such people bring down judgement on their own heads (James 3:1) and upon those who hear them.

I hope that you are not suggesting that these O.T. priests (Gk. hiereus) somehow became 'priests' in the NT churches. There is no such office; only elders (or overseers) and deacons..

I think you'll find it is.

 

John 20

21So Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” 22And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23“If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.”

Self explanatory.

Matthew 9

2And they brought to Him a paralytic lying on a bed. Seeing their faith, Jesus said to the paralytic, “Take courage, son; your sins are forgiven.” 3And some of the scribes said to themselves, “This fellow blasphemes.” 4And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, “Why are you thinking evil in your hearts? 5“Which is easier, to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up, and walk’? 6“But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins”—then He said to the paralytic, “Get up, pick up your bed and go home.” 7And he got up and went home. 8But when the crowds saw this, they were awestruck, and glorified God, who had given such authority to men.

The authority was given to "MEN".

Keep in mind he choses "Son of man" has authority And if you look closely at this title you might see God has given son of man authority also to indicate he is 100% human.

Luke 5

20Seeing their faith, He said, “Friend, your sins are forgiven you.” 21The scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, “Who is this man who speaks blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?” 22But Jesus, aware of their reasonings, answered and said to them, “Why are you reasoning in your hearts? 23“Which is easier, to say, ‘Your sins have been forgiven you,’ or to say, ‘Get up and walk’? 24“But, so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins,”—He said to the paralytic—“I say to you, get up, and pick up your stretcher and go home.” 25Immediately he got up before them, and picked up what he had been lying on, and went home glorifying God. 26They were all struck with astonishment and began glorifying God; and they were filled with fear, saying, “We have seen remarkable things today.”



Matthew 18
18“Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.

Self-explanatory


James 5

16Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much.

I got like 30 more verses.

 

Explained above, Post#15.

Which man was the authority given to? Jesus Christ. 100% Man and 100% God. Why does the Lord Jesus repeatedly call Himself the 'Son of Man'? Because He is alluding to Daniel 7:13, where the 'One like a Son of Man was given dominion, glory and a kingdom that shall never pass away (compare Daniel 7:13 with Mark 14:62).

Same again.

In the context, this is nothing else but the power of church discipline which is given to every leader of a Bible-believing church.

Amen! And your point is?

Wonderful! I can't wait to see them.

 

Sure there is. The Universal Church is very historical as testified to through the many centuries. As for St. Paul, he was not the last of the Apostles, I believe that was John.

Now you are smart enough to know that not everything that happened during Jesus's life and that of the Apostle's lives was written down. Just because something wasn't written in the Scriptures does not mean it didn't happen. And it is the same with your following statement. The Apostles ordained others and passed on the power given to them by Jesus Himself onto others. Post the Apostles, the Church established by Christ continued on directed by others who took their place.

I am not suggesting anything, I am believing what actually happened as the new Christian faith evolved. The Church (the leaders in it) had the power given to them by God to "bind and loose" things and they did just that, and with the help of the Holy Spirit I might add.

I will say that yourself believe in the Canon of Scripture (well, part of it anyway) that was given to us that you read. It did not just appear of it's own volition, but the books that make it up were decided upon by the leaders of the Universal Church at a particular council which was held. They decided something and at this time almost 2000 years later you believe that which they came up with. That my friend is an example of the post Apostle's binding and loosing powers. They bound it and you now believe what they did, is that not true?

 

The Christian confesses sin directly to God Himself, as Jesus is our Hig Priest, not any here to confess to get absolution from!

 

The church of Rome is a false church, no apostlic succession, as it is under the condemnation of God fo teaching another gosel!