The Commandments of Jesus Christ

[utilyan]

The Christian confesses sin directly to God Himself, as Jesus is our Hig Priest, not any here to confess to get absolution from!

John 20
21So Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” 22And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23“If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.”
The church is GOD BREATHED, More holy then scriptures, It wrote the scriptures, chose the scriptures. It is the Body of Christ, Bride of Christ.



The problem is you have NO FAITH IN GOD.

PROVERBS 3

5Trust in the LORD with all your heart
And do not lean on your own understanding.

YOU believe your sense of reliability stands a chance against GOD.

God shows up and says I'm going to move your car.

BOB: Where is your tow truck?
God: here take this spoon.
BOB: are you kidding me!?


In other words you demand your expectations of reliability be met and toss God aside.


Giant comes, we need to beat him up. God says don't worry I will beat up the giant!

BOB: Where is your tank and 50cal machine gun?
God: here take this child
BOB: are you kidding me!?



We need to spread the gospel, keep Christian teaching intact and most accurate as possible, to survive through the ages till the last day. God says don't worry I got the perfect tool!

BOB: where is your bible, law book, instruction book, the how to video?
GOD: Here take this church use bread and wine.
BOB: are you kidding me!?


The bread and wine is the best example of the reformation's failure.

We talk to each other, we use communication, it comes in different forms. Some is more reliable then others. They can talk to you, write an email, send you a letter, call on telephone, smoke signals, use various signs and symbols.

The methods are various and it appears some are more RELIABLE then others. I can call you on phone everyday deliver same message, sign language everyday, show a video everyday, stack rocks, use rubber bands, symbolism ect.

Jesus Christ WROTE SCRIPTURE. His book is THE CHURCH, BREAD is his paper, WINE is his ink. And he wants you to send his message same way you receive it.


1 Corinthians 11

23For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which He was betrayed took bread; 24and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” 25In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.” 26For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes.


Luke 22
19And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.”



Jesus' on going command is still alive. The reason the apostles do communion is because communion says so. The reason we do communion is because communion says so.

Paul is not quoting scripture, he is quoting Jesus Christ.



Now if you wanted to send a message down through the ages for ever and ever. A book sounds like a great idea, a video not bad, a cartoon, a painting, a statue, a monument.

God: I will keep the entire Gospel message through the ages forever intact.
BOB: great, Were is your book, where is your video?
God: take this all of you and eat it this is my body, drink this this is my blood, DO THIS in memory of me.

BOB: are you kidding me?



The ONE THING JESUS wrote was thrown in the garbage. Of ALL scripture what Jesus wrote himself ought to be the first thing the very constitution of Christianity.


But pride can't handle the humble method Jesus chose. Its not to Bob's standard of ink and paper. Even blind people and illiterate people can read the message Jesus wrote.


I check with communion to make sure anything in the bible is right. Communion makes the bible official.

Others check the bible to make sure communion is right, BACKWARDS. They say the bible makes communion official.



The minute you "check" the bible, your trying to go over God's head, your already out of bounds of "DO THIS" command your off into "DO THAT".

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Sure there is. The Universal Church is very historical as testified to through the many centuries. As for St. Paul, he was not the last of the Apostles, I believe that was John.

The bloody church that sought to make itself universal by killing off its opposition is testified to throughout the many centuries.
As for John, he may (or may not- Biblical evidence is lacking) have been the last apostle to die, but Paul was the last to be appointed.

Now you are smart enough to know that not everything that happened during Jesus's life and that of the Apostle's lives was written down. Just because something wasn't written in the Scriptures does not mean it didn't happen.

If it isn't written in the Scriptures, we have no guarantees at all that it's true.

And it is the same with your following statement. The Apostles ordained others and passed on the power given to them by Jesus Himself onto others.

No they did not. Paul makes it clear that he was the last apostle to be appointed. The apostles ordained elders and deacons.

Post the Apostles, the Church established by Christ continued on directed by others who took their place.

And the prophecy of Paul was swiftly proved true (Acts 20:29-31; 2 Timothy 4:3-4; cf. Revelation 13:11-18).

I am not suggesting anything, I am believing what actually happened as the new Christian faith evolved. The Church (the leaders in it) had the power given to them by God to "bind and loose" things and they did just that, and with the help of the Holy Spirit I might add.

As I said, every preacher has the power of "binding and loosing" as he preaches the Gospel, in that it has the power to promise heaven to those who repent and trust in Christ, and warn of hell to those who don't. A Bible-believing church has the power of "binding and loosing" in that it has the power to expel those who sin egregiously, and to bring them back in when they repent ( 1 Corinthians 5:13; 2 Corinthians 2:5-11). What a church has no power to do is to imprison, torture and insist that the sate burn those who disagree with it.

I will say that yourself believe in the Canon of Scripture (well, part of it anyway) that was given to us that you read. It did not just appear of it's own volition, but the books that make it up were decided upon by the leaders of the Universal Church at a particular council which was held. They decided something and at this time almost 2000 years later you believe that which they came up with. That my friend is an example of the post Apostle's binding and loosing powers. They bound it and you now believe what they did, is that not true?

The Church of Rome decided nothing. The Canon of Scripture was decreed by the Holy Spirit and accepted by the churches long before the Church of Rome fell into apostasy. I gave you a load of information on this last year. I can look it all out again if you insist.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

The church is GOD BREATHED, More holy then scriptures, It wrote the scriptures, chose the scriptures. It is the Body of Christ, Bride of Christ.

Nowhere does the word of God say that the Church is more holy than God's word. You might care to contemplate Psalm 138:2.

The problem is you have NO FAITH IN GOD.

You are breaking the rules of this forum. You need to apologize and withdraw this comment.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

BOB: where is your bible, law book, instruction book, the how to video?
GOD: Here take this church use bread and wine.
BOB: are you kidding me!?

GOD: Yes I am.
Sacramentalism is one of the great abominations of the Christian faith. Consider John 18:28.

'Then they [the Jewish leaders] led Jesus from Caiaphas to the Praetorium, and it was early in thye morning. But they themselves did not go into the Praetorium , lest they should be defiled, but that they might eat the Passover.'

This portion of John just drips with irony. The Jewish leaders were great sacramentalists, They did not want to become ceremonially unclean by entering the house of a pagan because they wanted to kill and eat the Passover lamb. And all the time they were plotting to kill the real Passover Lamb!

And so it was with the Bishops and Cardinals and Inquisitors of the Church of Rome. They would make sure that they went to Mass every day before they tortured some poor Protestant, just as they would do before (or after) they sodomized some poor choirboy.

BOB: How can I do all sorts of evil acts with a clear conscience?
Church of Rome: Here, take this church, use bread and wine.

The ordinances of Christ (baptism and the Lord's Supper) are under the word of God. We would know nothing about them if they were not written there.

 

[utilyan]

Nowhere does the word of God say that the Church is more holy than God's word. You might care to contemplate Psalm 138:2.

You are breaking the rules of this forum. You need to apologize and withdraw this comment.

Your problem here is one of faith.

I can easily tell you THE CHURCH is more holy then scriptures quite easily because Jesus Christ is one flesh with The Church.


Ephesians 5

28So husbands ought also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself; 29for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church, 30because we are members of His body. 31FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND SHALL BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH. 32This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church.


If I didn't believe the church is ONE FLESH with Jesus Christ, I'd agree with you.

Every time I say THE CHURCH, Jesus Christ is inclusive to it.

To put it simply--> NO JESUS, NO CHURCH.

When you say MY CHURCH you don't have Jesus in it, sounds like you have a big problem.

Sounds like your still unsure you bet on the right thing.

1 Corinthians 12

27Now you are Christ’s body, and individually members of it. 28And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues. 29All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they? 30All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they? 31But earnestly desire the greater gifts.
And I show you a still more excellent way.


Colossians 1

. 18He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.


Colossians 2

18Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind, 19and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.

The Body Christ, The CHURCH is a GOD-BREATHED gift from God, Jesus Christ is there.




Your gonna LOVE this scripture:

Ephesians 1
22And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church, 23which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

God put all things in subjection under Jesus' feet. And God gave HIM who is head over all things........TO THE CHURCH.


This scripture SHOULD let you smile from ear to ear! A parallel to 1 Corinthians 12

Ephesians 4

11And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, 12for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; 13until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ. 14As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming; 15but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ, 16from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love.

Look at the result you can ONLY get from church. ---> As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming;

Look how love is the highest priority.



The Church is so HOLY, Jesus died for the church.

If when you say THE CHURCH, Jesus Christ the highest priest does not come to mind, do yourself a favor and DUMP IT.




Show me where scripture is the body of Christ. Show me were Jesus died for the scriptures.

 

[Adonia]

The church of Rome is a false church, no apostlic succession, as it is under the condemnation of God fo teaching another gosel!

I say the church to which you belong is a false church for rejecting the Apostolic Succession. And likewise your sect is under the condemnation of God for blaspheming of the Holy Spirit.

 

[utilyan]

GOD: Yes I am.
Sacramentalism is one of the great abominations of the Christian faith. Consider John 18:28.

'Then they [the Jewish leaders] led Jesus from Caiaphas to the Praetorium, and it was early in thye morning. But they themselves did not go into the Praetorium , lest they should be defiled, but that they might eat the Passover.'

This portion of John just drips with irony. The Jewish leaders were great sacramentalists, They did not want to become ceremonially unclean by entering the house of a pagan because they wanted to kill and eat the Passover lamb. And all the time they were plotting to kill the real Passover Lamb!

And so it was with the Bishops and Cardinals and Inquisitors of the Church of Rome. They would make sure that they went to Mass every day before they tortured some poor Protestant, just as they would do before (or after) they sodomized some poor choirboy.

BOB: How can I do all sorts of evil acts with a clear conscience?
Church of Rome: Here, take this church, use bread and wine.

The ordinances of Christ (baptism and the Lord's Supper) are under the word of God. We would know nothing about them if they were not written there.

Sorry when Jesus did communion he did not whip out a King James Bible and say ok we can do this.

Communion, "the lord's supper" as you call it, Is the constitution of Christianity. Jesus Christ is laying out the covenant right there.

He states how he wants the gospel, the word remembered, DO THIS.

You think you have a better method then Jesus Christ.

We do communion because Jesus commanded us to do it, THROUGH IT.

Communion has been around for thousands of years and was practiced hundreds of years before any bible even existed.

This is the cherry on top. COMMUNION IS THE SCRIPTURE JESUS WROTE PERSONALLY.

Jesus wrote it in the catholic language. Bread, wine and people.

Communion can teach you more about Christianity then all the bibles in the world combined.

If I went outside and carved some rocks to tell a story the method by which I do it is my prerogative.

My telling you the story with rocks instead of a phone call or email doesn't make my choice a lesser form.

Folks believe the tools of ink and paper are superior. I believe the TOOLS that Jesus Christ chose is superior.

Communion which JESUS CHRIST wrote, should be at the front of everything else.

Folks looked at his way of doing it and said I can do better.

We don't check the bible to make sure we got communion right, We check communion to make sure we got the bible right.

Jesus Christ is FIRST. He could have wrote his message with mud and I will accept that mud as the highest authority of scripture before anything else whether done with ink paper, email, or anything "better".

Folks have tossed the #1 , the rule #1, The personal communication of Christ that survives today.


Reminds me of movie Indiana Jones and The Last Crusade.

First they are convinced the holy grail has to be the most beautiful one with gold and gems.

They let their proud expectations get in the way of their judgment.

When they understood he was humble and a son of a carpenter they chose a humble grail and were right.


You have been thrown tons of scripture and there was one not up to your standards, it did not use ink did not use paper ........in fact it used the most unreliable paper of all SINNERS. Bread and wine.


James 4
10Humble yourselves in the presence of the Lord, and He will exalt you.

 

[Adonia]

The bloody church that sought to make itself universal by killing off its opposition is testified to throughout the many centuries.
As for John, he may (or may not- Biblical evidence is lacking) have been the last apostle to die, but Paul was the last to be appointed.

The Western Rite was the Universal, the only Christian Church, that existed before the popping up of all the other Christian sects, and that is where the great problems of Christianity arose. No violence can be justified by the Universal Church against any other Christian sect, but the fact remains that they themselves killed their share of orthodox believers.

If it isn't written in the Scriptures, we have no guarantees at all that it's true.

Sure we do. We can have the guarantee that orthodox church teachings are arrived at with the help of the Holy Spirit. It's your interpretation of things that contain errors.
.

The Church of Rome decided nothing. The Canon of Scripture was decreed by the Holy Spirit and accepted by the churches long before the Church of Rome fell into apostasy. I gave you a load of information on this last year. I can look it all out again if you insist.

Good grief, there was but one Universal Christian Church at the time in the 4th century when the final draft of the Canon of the Scriptures was finally decided upon. It was set forth by the leaders of the Universal Christian Church alive at that time with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. The leaders of said church were in line with us orthodox believers of today i.e. a belief in the Sacraments and the Bishop centered in Rome. Don't believe me, but go and read the writings of the Early Church Fathers - they were Catholics (Universalists) every one of them.

 

[Adonia]

Show me where scripture is the body of Christ. Show me were Jesus died for the scriptures.

I love that one, it is so on point. Christ existed BEFORE the New Testament Scriptures were written, HE is the Word itself, not the ink on paper in a book form. They have become worshippers of ink on paper, without that Jesus is no where to be found! (according to them)

There is Jesus and the continuing on of Jesus through His One Universal (Catholic) Holy Church!

 

[utilyan]

The church of Rome is a false church, no apostlic succession, as it is under the condemnation of God fo teaching another gosel!

I love it when a Baptist requires GOOD WORKS from me and tells me I'm under condemnation FOR NOT DOING THE RIGHT THING<<<<<The very concept we disagree on!!!!

I believe WE have to do the right thing! In other words NOT FAITH ALONE.


We are the catholic church. Yes we have a church in Rome. Just look at the book called ROMANS.

I think its about 24 rites or churches all in communion with the pope. The Roman rite most common.

Around 1200 we get the label Roman Catholic from others. But we still are the Catholic Church.

In the bible the Apostles lay out system of bishops and we don't even have to go one generation away and the bishops are teaching catholic things like real presence of the Eucharist. The apostles who appointed these people are STILL ALIVE during this.

People FACE TO FACE with the apostles teaching with authority, forgiving with authority, and doing catholic things.

Ignatius of Antioch for example was disciple of John

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignatius_of_Antioch


I would LOVE just LOVE for you to show ANY apostolic succession, everyone is catholic.



That's why when Luther and Calvin broke away they couldn't just pop up and say oh hey we are the real deal over here, It is vital and absolutely needed to convey that the REAL DEAL had become corrupt or fallen. That's why they are PROTESTING that's why they are REFORMING.

Luther and Calvin already did your homework. Folks try to say well we were some secret gnostic Anabaptists. Well why aren't you them today or even remotely believe the things they do?


1 Corinthians 10
14Therefore, my beloved, flee from idolatry. 15I speak as to wise men; you judge what I say. 16Is not the cup of blessing which we bless a sharing in the blood of Christ? Is not the bread which we break a sharing in the body of Christ? 17Since there is one bread, we who are many are one body; for we all partake of the one bread. 18Look at the nation Israel; are not those who eat the sacrifices sharers in the altar? 19What do I mean then? That a thing sacrificed to idols is anything, or that an idol is anything? 20No, but I say that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to demons and not to God; and I do not want you to become sharers in demons. 21You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons. 22Or do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? We are not stronger than He, are we?

When you go to catholic church there is an altar and a sacrifice to God. Actual Worship not just preaching. You actually partake of the cup and of the table of the lord.




The Epistle of Ignatius to the Smyrnaeans

Chapter 6. Unbelievers in the blood of Christ shall be condemned
Let no man deceive himself. Both the things which are in heaven, and the glorious angels, and rulers, both visible and invisible, if they believe not in the blood of Christ, shall, in consequence, incur condemnation. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it. Matthew 19:12 Let not [high] place puff any one up: for that which is worth all is faith and love, to which nothing is to be preferred. But consider those who are of a different opinion with respect to the grace of Christ which has come unto us, how opposed they are to the will of God. They have no regard for love; no care for the widow, or the orphan, or the oppressed; of the bond, or of the free; of the hungry, or of the thirsty.
Chapter 7. Let us stand aloof from such heretics
They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again. Those, therefore, who speak against this gift of God, incur death in the midst of their disputes. But it were better for them to treat it with respect, that they also might rise again. It is fitting, therefore, that you should keep aloof from such persons, and not to speak of them either in private or in public, but to give heed to the prophets, and above all, to the Gospel, in which the passion [of Christ] has been revealed to us, and the resurrection has been fully proved. But avoid all divisions, as the beginning of evils.



^this guy Ignatius He's a disciple of John, the apostle who outlived all the others and wrote revelations.

Ignatius died 108.

John the apostle possibly died around 100. <--maybe.

John 21

20Peter, turning around, saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following them; the one who also had leaned back on His bosom at the supper and said, “Lord, who is the one who betrays You?” 21So Peter seeing him said to Jesus, “Lord, and what about this man?” 22Jesus said to him, “If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow Me!” 23Therefore this saying went out among the brethren that that disciple would not die; yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but only, “If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you?”



I love the ending of this gospel its very upbeat comedy between Jesus and Peter.

Jesus said If I want him to stay till the 2nd coming what is that to you? LOL.


John can be alive right now.......on the internet even.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Your problem here is one of faith.

Somebody's problem is one of faith, but I don't think it's mine.
Your faith is in what you call the sacraments. My faith is in the Lord Jesus Christ who gave the ordinances of baptism and the Lord's Supper.

One of these commands is what the Holy Spirit tells us. The other two are what the Church of Rome tells us.

"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved."
"Believe in the Church and you will be saved."
"Believe in the Mass and you will be saved."

The Epistle of Ignatius to the Smyrnaeans

Ignatius of Antioch wrote some good stuff and he wrote some real rubbish. If what he said agrees with the Bible, that's fine; if it doesn't, forget it. He is the start of the great apostasy prophesied in Acts 20 and 1 & 2 Timothy. So he was a disciple (allegedly) of the Apostle John. So what? Judas was a disciple of our Lord and Alexander the Coppersmith (2 Timothy 4:14) was (allegedly) a disciple of the Apostle Paul.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

This thread is closed. The Original Poster was banned for heresy as a follower of Joseph Smith.