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Featured On Eternal Decrees,Predestination, and Foreknowledge

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Agent47, Jan 10, 2017.

  1. Agent47

    Agent47 Active Member
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    Could a kind soul help me with simple definition of these terms and how they are related to one another?
     
  2. Agent47

    Agent47 Active Member
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    @JonC,
    From the few threads we have had I think I have a fair grasp of these terms.

    My question to you is,
    Do sovereign decrees merely render events possible or do they determinatively render them certain(must) and necessary?
     
  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I'll try my best, brother.

    In Scripture, a "decree" (Psalm 2) is God's "eternal purpose" (Ephesians 3) or "determined counsel" (Acts 2). These are the same thing.

    The way I understand the term, a "decree" of God is by definition sovereign, it is certain because it is something God has "determined", and it is "necessary" because it is God's "eternal purpose".
     
  4. Agent47

    Agent47 Active Member
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    Thank you. I wholly agree. I was told God decrees everything because he is sovereign. Do you think God decrees everything?
     
  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    It depends on what you mean by "everything".

    I believe that we "cannot speak and it come to pass unless God has commanded it" (Lam 3:37). But I do not believe that God "decrees" men to sin (James 1:13).
     
  6. Agent47

    Agent47 Active Member
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    Everything has one definition sir;it means ALL.

    Sinning is an event so if you hold onto God decreeing ALL events but not sinning, you are contradicting yourself.

    Of course you could be Arminian if you believe God permits some events without determinately rendering them certain and necessary.
     
    #6 Agent47, Jan 27, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2017
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    he has decreed all that happens will fitr into His own plan and purposes, but He either determines history, orpermits it to happen!
     
  8. Agent47

    Agent47 Active Member
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    Permission is the language of Arminianism
     
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Certain brands of Calvinism also!
     
  10. Agent47

    Agent47 Active Member
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    The confused type
     
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Not so, as only Hyper cals hold to no permissive will!
     
  12. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Is God the Author of sin:

    Louis Berkhof:

    “This, if true, would naturally be an insuperable objection, for God cannot be the author of sin. This follows equally from Scripture, Ps. 92:15; Eccl. 7:29; Jas. 1:13; 1 John 1:5, from the law of God which prohibits all sin, and from the holiness of God. But the charge is not true; the decree merely makes God the author of free moral beings, who are themselves the authors of sin. God decrees to sustain their free agency, to regulate the circumstances of their life, and to permit that free agency to exert itself in a multitude of acts, of which some are sinful.

    For good and holy reasons He renders these sinful acts certain, but He does not decree to work evil desires or choices efficiently in man. The decree respecting sin is not an efficient but a permissive decree, or a decree to permit, in distinction from a decree to produce, sin by divine efficiency.

    No difficulty attaches to such a decree which does not also attach to a mere passive permission of what He could very well prevent, such as the Arminians, who generally raise this objection, assume. The problem of God's relation to sin remains a mystery for us, which we are not able to solve. It may be said, however, that His decree to permit sin, while it renders the entrance of sin into the world certain, does not mean He takes delight in it; but only that He deemed it wise, for the purpose of His self-revelation, to permit moral evil, however abhorrent it may be to His nature.
     
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  13. Agent47

    Agent47 Active Member
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    This is mere word play because permissive decrees rendered certain can't be resisted by Man.
     
  14. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Once again you prove you have little or no knowledge regarding the subject. The permissive decree allows the man to do as he pleases. It is his own will to do so, which God permits. The whole point is that he does not resist his on desires.
     
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  15. Agent47

    Agent47 Active Member
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    I know that.

    Explain on the rendering certain bit. Is it not making it impossible to be otherwise?
     
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Mankind has always chosen freely to be sinners, to disobey the Lord, correct?
     
  17. Agent47

    Agent47 Active Member
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    Why is this?
     
  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Due to all of us have sinned, and fallen short of the glory of God!
     
    #18 Yeshua1, Jan 31, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2017
  19. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    Why? Maybe she's born with it. Maybe it's Maybelline.

    Don't bet on Maybelline.
     
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