Deadly free-will choices from the Garden until right now

[MennoSota]

There you go again with this heresy...

The Bible, St Augustine and the Roman church disagree with your Pelagian teachings.

 

[MennoSota]

The church of Rome has another false/gospel !

Indeed, but they were right in following Augustine rather than Pelagian.

 

[Yeshua1]

Indeed, but they were right in following Augustine rather than Pelagian.

They departed from Augustine at council of Trent!

 

[Revmitchell]

It's just not taught that way in the Bible, rev.
There is no "partial" aliveness. We are either dead or alive. Lazerus was fully dead until Jesus call Lazerus name and made Lazerus alive. We are fully spiritually dead until God calls our name. We aren't "mostly dead" to quote the Princess Bride.

Given the choice, we will run and hide from God, just like Adam and Eve in the garden. That is our choice...our only choice. It takes God's work of grace and His alone. Why? Because in any other fashion we get to boast about our choice. God showed that the law does not save. Choosing God leads to catastrophic failure. Read the last chapter of Joshua. Joshua tells the people that they cannot honor the choice they are claiming to make.
No, salvation is always God's gift of redemption to those whom He chooses to give the gift.

Sigh, trying to compare spiritual death with physical death to support unbiblical doctrines does not help your case. God is not limited by our death to speak to us, to commune to us or anything else. I reject that in any other fashion we get to boast. Narrowing down the options to two is an informal fallacy. I also reject the premise that if somehow man makes a choice then man gets any part of the credit for the salvation. No man or woman in scripture ever tried to make that argument.

 

[utilyan]

It helps to know you are a Roman Catholic.
I would point you to St Augustine who understood God's election and thoroughly dismantled Pelagius "free will" argument so much that the Roman church declared Pelagius a heretic.

In regard to the verses you quote, only Romans 10 is in regard to salvation. The others are out of context. As for Romans 10, you should let Romans 9 guide your understanding as to who will and will not believe. Just saying a prayer of salvation as though it were a magic incantation is really poor exegesis and a biblically inaccurate presentation of grace.

As for the rest of your comments, it is clear you are mad at God for making you subject to His sovereign authority over your life. That is an issue between you and God, not between you and me.

God is complete sovereignty that's not hard for me to swallow at all.

I can't breathe without God, my heart doesn't move without God, every event in my life was setup by God.

Every evil act committed on my or anyone's part God knew exactly what would happen and allow it.

God has the very hairs on your head numbered.

The prayer I mentioned is one Jesus commands us to pray. By its definition prayer is a request made on God.

Matthew 7

7“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 8“For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. 9“Or what man is there among you who, when his son asks for a loaf, will give him a stone? 10“Or if he asks for a fish, he will not give him a snake, will he? 11“If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him!


Luke 11

5Then He said to them, “Suppose one of you has a friend, and goes to him at midnight and says to him, ‘Friend, lend me three loaves; 6for a friend of mine has come to me from a journey, and I have nothing to set before him’; 7and from inside he answers and says, ‘Do not bother me; the door has already been shut and my children and I are in bed; I cannot get up and give you anything.’ 8“I tell you, even though he will not get up and give him anything because he is his friend, yet because of his persistence he will get up and give him as much as he needs.
9“So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 10“For everyone who asks, receives; and he who seeks, finds; and to him who knocks, it will be opened. 11“Now suppose one of you fathers is asked by his son for a fish; he will not give him a snake instead of a fish, will he? 12“Or if he is asked for an egg, he will not give him a scorpion, will he? 13“If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?”


Would you exegete that the persistence comes from a lack of faith? That one can't ask for the holy spirit because they would have to have the holy spirit in the first place?



Matthew 15
21Jesus went away from there, and withdrew into the district of Tyre and Sidon. 22And a Canaanite woman from that region came out and began to cry out, saying, “Have mercy on me, Lord, Son of David; my daughter is cruelly demon-possessed.” 23But He did not answer her a word. And His disciples came and implored Him, saying, “Send her away, because she keeps shouting at us.” 24But He answered and said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” 25But she came and began to bow down before Him, saying, “Lord, help me!” 26And He answered and said, “It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.” 27But she said, “Yes, Lord; but even the dogs feed on the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.” 28Then Jesus said to her, “O woman, your faith is great; it shall be done for you as you wish.” And her daughter was healed at once.

If she was a Calvinist she would have walked off when he said:

“It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.”

He was only sent for the lost sheep in the elect house.

That is GOD almighty saying NO!

You would have walked off too. You would have failed this test, LIKE YOUR FAILING NOW.

One day its going to be you on the sake of a reprobate you actually care for. One day its going to change from saving your own neck to prioritizing someone else.

What is in command here is the love in her heart. She wasn't going to stand by and let her reprobate daughter be demon consumed. She wasn't even going to take a NO from Jesus.

“O woman, your faith is great; it shall be done for you as you wish.”



Its like you got a photo of the gospel but don't accept real deal three dimensionally, your stuck with a limited two dimensions.

God controls everything beautifully. His say is on everything no problem. But you put limits on how he does it.

Your convinced he could only win a game of poker between us by cheating.

That he can only see things go his way based on conditions that would satisfy your human perspective of certainty.


The only reason we are of differ faiths is because the one guy who claims its all on God to fix things hypocritically believed himself the one to fix his church.

 

[MennoSota]

God is complete sovereignty that's not hard for me to swallow at all.

I can't breathe without God, my heart doesn't move without God, every event in my life was setup by God.

Every evil act committed on my or anyone's part God knew exactly what would happen and allow it.

God has the very hairs on your head numbered.

The prayer I mentioned is one Jesus commands us to pray. By its definition prayer is a request made on God.

Matthew 7

7“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 8“For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. 9“Or what man is there among you who, when his son asks for a loaf, will give him a stone? 10“Or if he asks for a fish, he will not give him a snake, will he? 11“If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him!


Luke 11

5Then He said to them, “Suppose one of you has a friend, and goes to him at midnight and says to him, ‘Friend, lend me three loaves; 6for a friend of mine has come to me from a journey, and I have nothing to set before him’; 7and from inside he answers and says, ‘Do not bother me; the door has already been shut and my children and I are in bed; I cannot get up and give you anything.’ 8“I tell you, even though he will not get up and give him anything because he is his friend, yet because of his persistence he will get up and give him as much as he needs.
9“So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 10“For everyone who asks, receives; and he who seeks, finds; and to him who knocks, it will be opened. 11“Now suppose one of you fathers is asked by his son for a fish; he will not give him a snake instead of a fish, will he? 12“Or if he is asked for an egg, he will not give him a scorpion, will he? 13“If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?”


Would you exegete that the persistence comes from a lack of faith? That one can't ask for the holy spirit because they would have to have the holy spirit in the first place?



Matthew 15
21Jesus went away from there, and withdrew into the district of Tyre and Sidon. 22And a Canaanite woman from that region came out and began to cry out, saying, “Have mercy on me, Lord, Son of David; my daughter is cruelly demon-possessed.” 23But He did not answer her a word. And His disciples came and implored Him, saying, “Send her away, because she keeps shouting at us.” 24But He answered and said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” 25But she came and began to bow down before Him, saying, “Lord, help me!” 26And He answered and said, “It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.” 27But she said, “Yes, Lord; but even the dogs feed on the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.” 28Then Jesus said to her, “O woman, your faith is great; it shall be done for you as you wish.” And her daughter was healed at once.

If she was a Calvinist she would have walked off when he said:

“It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.”

He was only sent for the lost sheep in the elect house.

That is GOD almighty saying NO!

You would have walked off too. You would have failed this test, LIKE YOUR FAILING NOW.

One day its going to be you on the sake of a reprobate you actually care for. One day its going to change from saving your own neck to prioritizing someone else.

What is in command here is the love in her heart. She wasn't going to stand by and let her reprobate daughter be demon consumed. She wasn't even going to take a NO from Jesus.

“O woman, your faith is great; it shall be done for you as you wish.”



Its like you got a photo of the gospel but don't accept real deal three dimensionally, your stuck with a limited two dimensions.

God controls everything beautifully. His say is on everything no problem. But you put limits on how he does it.

Your convinced he could only win a game of poker between us by cheating.

That he can only see things go his way based on conditions that would satisfy your human perspective of certainty.


The only reason we are of differ faiths is because the one guy who claims its all on God to fix things hypocritically believed himself the one to fix his church.

Not one of the passages is about God's redemptive work and the sinners salvation. Please stay on topic.

 

[MennoSota]

Sigh, trying to compare spiritual death with physical death to support unbiblical doctrines does not help your case. God is not limited by our death to speak to us, to commune to us or anything else. I reject that in any other fashion we get to boast. Narrowing down the options to two is an informal fallacy. I also reject the premise that if somehow man makes a choice then man gets any part of the credit for the salvation. No man or woman in scripture ever tried to make that argument.

Yet Paul directly tells us that God gives us faith to believe so that no one can boast. Why would you reject God's word in order to hold to an unsupported opinion?

 

[utilyan]

Not one of the passages is about God's redemptive work and the sinners salvation. Please stay on topic.

I give you answer to every challenge you gave, You always walk off with tail between legs.

Every single passage there has to do with redemptive work and sinners salvation.

and

Every single of those bible passages has to do with this thread we are on "Deadly free-will choices from the Garden until right now"

Why don't you pray to God to give you some answers.

Look here's an easy one.

Tell me Canaanite woman was faithful or what she did was faithless. HINT: Jesus tells us.

 

[AndThisGospel]

Yet Paul directly tells us that God gives us faith to believe so that no one can boast. Why would you reject God's word in order to hold to an unsupported opinion?

Verse?

 

[AndThisGospel]

...God gives us faith to believe so that no one can boast.....

In other words "faith' is boasting? Wow, I've heard it all.

Let me tell you what boasting is: this idea that God singled me out to be saved, but those other folks? Forget them, they've been elected for the fires of hell. No choice for them....That smacks of boasting....!!!

 

[Yeshua1]

In other words "faith' is boasting? Wow, I've heard it all.

Let me tell you what boasting is: this idea that God singled me out to be saved, but those other folks? Forget them, they've been elected for the fires of hell. No choice for them....That smacks of boasting....!!!

You could boast that I was smart rnough to believe, that I choose the right thing, so God excludes all of Man efforts to assist Him in salvation!

 

[MennoSota]

Verse?

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
~ Ephesians 2:8-9

It's right there. Faith does not come from yourself. Faith comes as a gift from God so that you cannot boast about choosing God.

 

[Yeshua1]

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
~ Ephesians 2:8-9

It's right there. Faith does not come from yourself. Faith comes as a gift from God so that you cannot boast about choosing God.

NONE would accept God on their own....

 

[MennoSota]

In other words "faith' is boasting? Wow, I've heard it all.

Let me tell you what boasting is: this idea that God singled me out to be saved, but those other folks? Forget them, they've been elected for the fires of hell. No choice for them....That smacks of boasting....!!!

No. How do you miss it?

Faith is from God so that YOU cannot boast about choosing God.

God did all the work. Give Him the praise and stop daydreaming about you somehow picking God off the pantheon god shelf. You and I are just not that smart. In fact, because God is holy and we are not, we would always run from God's presence if He didn't stop us.

 

[MennoSota]

NONE would accept God on their own....

Agreed
In fact you never see God telling us to accept Him into our heart. We would and can never do it on our own volition.

 

[AndThisGospel]

...., St Augustine and the Roman church disagree with your ... teachings.

I don't care.....

 

[AndThisGospel]

In fact you never see God telling us to accept Him into our heart. We would and can never do it on our own volition.

A God of force and compulsion is not a God of love....

 

[AndThisGospel]

Faith is from God so that YOU cannot boast about choosing God..

Choosing God? You mean accepting salvation "in Christ" through faith. Faith is a human response that accepts the atonement. Who are you kidding?

 

[AndThisGospel]

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
~ Ephesians 2:8-9

Let's see, you said: "Paul directly tells us that God gives us faith to believe so that no one can boast."

And Eph 2:9 states that God saved us by grace and we accept this through faith, not works (as in good deeds).

I suggest learning to read a bit better..

 

[MennoSota]

I don't care.....

You should. From the writers of the Bible to the early church fathers on down to today, God's work of choosing his children has been taught.
Why are you so dead set on being wrong?