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All New (Hebrews 9)

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by NetChaplain, Dec 29, 2016.

  1. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain Well-Known Member
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    What are we to learn from the earthly tabernacle and its carnal sacrifices (9:9, 10)? We are not left to give our own interpretation, but are definitely told that the Holy Spirit has signified their true meaning. First, we are to learn that the services of the tabernacle clearly show that, under the law, the way into the presence of God was not yet made manifest (v 8).

    Secondly, if the way into the Holiest was not yet open, it was a clear proof of the insufficiency of the sacrifices. They could not make the offeror perfect as to the conscience. Thirdly, these things, during their existence, were a figure of things to come. The figures, however, could never satisfy God, nor meet the need of man. Under such a system God was shut in and man was shut out. The Jewish religion could neither open heaven to man nor fit him for heaven.

    It is important to remember that the “perfect” or purged” conscience, of which the Apostle speaks in chapters 9 and 10, is very different to what is spoken of elsewhere as “a good conscience.” The purged conscience is one that being “once purged” has no more conscience of sins (10:2). It supposes a conscience that has been exercised as to its sins, but has had that exercise met by learning that the believer is cleansed from all sins by the precious Blood of the Lord Jesus Christ, and will never come under judgement. A good conscience is “a conscience void of offence toward God and toward man” (Acts 24:16), in the practical ways and walk.

    With the coming of the Lord Jesus all is changed and made new. There is a new High Priest, a greater and a perfect tabernacle, and a new sacrifice. Aaron was high priest in a reference to things in this present world. The Lord Jesus is our “High Priest of good things to come.” His sacrifice does indeed secure present blessings for the believer, but the “good things” in reference to which He is High Priest are yet “to come.” Thus again the Spirit of God keeps in view the end of our wilderness journey—Christ being our High Priest to support us through the wilderness in view of bringing us into the “good things” at the end of the journey in the world to come.

    If then the Aaronic priesthood is set aside by the Priesthood of Christ, so too the earthly tabernacle is set aside by “the greater and more perfect tabernacle.” The earthly tabernacle was made with hands, and was of the creation. The perfect tabernacle is heaven itself.

    The Levitical sacrifices are set aside by the one great sacrifice of Christ, who by His own Blood, has entered into heaven itself, prefigured by the Holy of Holies. Moreover, in contrast to the Aaronic priest who entered once “every year,” Christ has entered in heaven “once for all.” He enters to take up His priestly service on behalf of those for whom He has already obtained eternal redemption.

    The Blood of Christ, by which eternal redemption has been obtained, sets aside the blood of bulls and goats. The blood of these animals did indeed have a sanctifying effect, so far as the cleansing of the flesh was concerned (Num 19:7, 8). But the Blood of Christ purges the conscience. The blood of an animal offered through a priest is entirely set aside by “the Blood of Christ, who by the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God.”

    For the one that believes, the effect of this great sacrifice is to purge the “conscience from dead works*.” Seeing that Christ has offered Himself without spot to God, and that God has accepted the great sacrifice, and is infinitely satisfied with Christ and His shed Blood, the conscience of the believer is relieved of all thought of working to secure the blessing. Such works, however good in themselves, would only be “dead works.” Thus set free in conscience, the believer becomes a worshipper of the Father.

    Thus the great conclusion is reached that “without the shedding of blood is no remission.” Here it is not simply the sprinkling of blood, but the “shedding of blood”—the righteous basis upon which God can proclaim forgiveness, and proclaim all who believe are forgiven. The tabernacle and its furnishings were only the pattern of things in the heavens (“but not the very image of the things” Heb 10:1 – NC). It was possible to enter the earthly tabernacle through the purification of the flesh, afforded by the blood of bulls and goats; but the purification of heavenly things demanded a better Sacrifice.

    The Apostle has spoken of the better sacrifices, introducing the subject with the words, “But Christ being come.” Now he leads our thoughts to the New Sanctuary with the words, “For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself.” There, in the very presence of the Father, the Lord Jesus as our great High Priest now appears to represent His people before the face of the Father. Christ appearing in heaven, before His Father’s face “for us” is the everlasting witness that heaven is secured, and thrown open to the believer.

    Moreover, every hindrance to the believer being in heaven has been righteously met and removed by one eternally efficacious sacrifice. The yearly repetition of the Levitical sacrifices was a proof of their inadequacy to put away sin. In contrast to these sacrifices, Christ has once appeared in the consummation of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself, “and as it is appointed unto men to once die, but after this the judgement: so Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many.” Thus, by one great sacrifice of Christ Himself, sin has been put away, sins having been borne, and death and judgement removed for the believer.

    The blessed result for the Christian is that when the Lord Jesus appears at the Rapture, He will no more have to do with sin. Sin having been dealt with at His first appearing. His second appearing will be wholly for the salvation of His people from a world of sin, and the power of the enemy, to bring them into the rest that remains.

    The passage thus presents the three appearings of the Lord Jesus. His past appearing at the Cross to put away sin, bear sins, and remove judgement; His present appearing in heaven itself, as the great High Priest, on behalf of His people; and the soon appearing in glory for the final salvation of His people form this wilderness world with all its temptations and infirmities.

    - Hamilton Smith



    Poster’s Opinion:
    *”dead works”: The sacrificial ordinances were works that could obtain forgiveness from guilt of sin but were considered dead or powerless works in relation to addressing the removal of the dominion of sin (Heb 10:11), which is the goal of being forgiven in order to be in, not just union but in fellowship with God.

    Miles J Stanford devotional: http://www.abideabove.com/hungry-heart/
     
  2. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    Hello NC, hope all is well with you and yours.

    One of the things I consider in regards to the conscience is that rather than a condition where the believer feels no guilt for sin, in view is the reality of what the Writer conveys, which is that the believer can rest, assured that the Atonement has indeed made complete that which the Law could not. In 10:1-4, for example, the point is made that the blood of bulls and goats could not take away sins. In vv.10-14 it is made clear that Christ's Sacrifice not only takes away sin, but that the believer is made complete on an eternal basis. So too, with the atonement made available through the Law, something I have seen is the idea that those sacrifices did not bring atonement, when the truth is they did. But, as the Writer points out, it was inadequate to remove sin in the eternal perspective, hence the repetition. I wonder, had we been born under that system, what my perspective towards the enormity of sin which separated us from God would have been. Would I have taken it for granted? Made it ritualistic in my life? I know I feel blessed to have been born in this Age, though, and have a more perfect understanding of the Plan of Redemption.

    So in short, the question would be, in regards to the conscience, is it a matter of our conscience no longer goads us when we sin, or is it more a matter that we do not have looming over the fact that despite having received atonement for sin, we know that we will have to come on the terms of God laid before to once again offer up for sin?

    Good to see you still at it brother, keep up the good work.


    God bless.
     
  3. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain Well-Known Member
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    Hi DC - Good to see you too and know your Family is doing good! I think I need further clarification on the above quote to reply here, and concerning the phrase "take away sin" IMO, it's not in reference to the removal or eradication of sin or the sin nature which still indwells, but concerns the removal and eradication of the guilt (Rom 8:1) and dominion (Rom 6:12, 14) of our sin nature.

    God bless and God Be Blessed!
     
  4. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    Thanks brother, always a pleasure to chat with you.


    If you mean this...


    Hebrews 10:1-4

    King James Version (KJV)


    1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.


    2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.


    3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.


    4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.



    ...as it relates to the conscience, one of the primary thrusts of Hebrews is to contrast that which is "perfect," or, complete, with that which was incomplete. In v.1 he makes it clear that the (Covenant of) Law could not make the worshiper perfect (complete), and in v.4 tells us why: because it could not take away sins in reality, it was merely a temporary covering for sin, even as the animal skins which clothed Adam and Eve were. He makes the point, "If they had...wouldn't they have stopped offering them?"

    Now in v.2 we see reference to the conscience, and what I meant in my previous post was that I do not see this as a reference to our personal conscience as pertaining to sin in our lives, because just as you say...

    I think you might agree that if we get to a point where we think we never sin...there's a problem, lol. And if we can sin and not be pricked in our conscience, again, a problem. We are going to sin at times, and fail in being faithful to the standard set before us. Of course, God knows this, and this is precisely why Christ had to die in our place.



    And I agree with this as well, but again it is not a matter of "guilt" from a personal perspective, because I think we still can regret the necessity of Christ dying on our behalf. Rather, it is an understanding that we were helpless in the condition we were born into, thus from that perspective we understand the necessity. So from a temporal perspective our conscience is still active in regards to sin in our lives, whereas from the eternal perspective we recognize that condition and what God has done for us, thus we don't sit around beating ourselves up because we born sinners and are now in the process of being cleansed of sin in our lives. One preacher said "Give God at least as much time to fix your life as you took to mess it up." lol


    Absolutely, amen. And this is where guilt might be an issue for me on a temporal perspective, because I know I am not in full obedience at all times. Doesn't mean I think God is going to cast me away, but on the contrary, He is the One pointing out that sin. So when I sin, its not because "the devil made me do it," lol, its disobedience, and my conscience is quick to point out to me that I have been disobedient.


    Again, keep up the good work!

    God bless.
     
  5. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain Well-Known Member
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    This makes a point concerning what God expected of His Son, because He does not expect the standard of perfection with us, so there is no failure of the believer's life concerning guilt.

    Initially years ago I conceived this regret also, but have come to realize that God does not desire us to regret what Christ had to do, a "necessity" as you've indicated.

    Agreed, if you mean by "conscience still active" in relation that we are aware we still sin.

    Some conceive we are not fully clean and that we are gradually being made fully clean in sanctification, but it's my understanding that at rebirth we are fully "sanctified" (always in past tense) and fully clean concerning guilt, which is the only issue, other than now growing or maturing in our "walk after the Spirit."

    To be free of sin's dominion to me means it can never cause us to desire it (Rom 7:15, 17, 20), even though we are still affected by our sin nature. Before it was a desire, but after rebirth it's a detest. But as it has been mentioned, God does not expect perfection of man or He would have eradicated the "old man" at rebirth.

    IMO, I believe He left it there to continue to learn from it. The issue is now desire, i.e. when we sin now, it's never our desire and so it is as a "captive" (Rom 7:23) Before we were willing subjects--but nevermore.

    I do not see our sins as disobedience but as un-presumptuous sins. To be considered disobedience it would have to be "willful sin" (Heb 10:26), as opposed to sinning "presumptuously" (Num 15:30). The sins of the believer are never willful. Sinning cannot be avoided as long as we have the sin nature, similar to "Can a man take fire in his bosom, and his clothes not be burned (Prov 6:27, 28).
     
  6. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    I would agree in large part, which was the original point, meaning there is a separation between the temporal and eternal realities of salvation. As it is often said, we are saved (from the penalty of sin), we are being saved (from the effect of sin (in our lives)), and we will be saved (when our bodies are redeemed). All true, just differing perspectives in regards to the particulars of redemption.


    Not "regret" in the sense that I am sorry He did, lol, more a matter of personal responsibility for the sin I have committed myself. Can't watch the Passion without crying, even though I have seen it several times. Remember once I went to a play and broke down when the actor portraying Christ walked down the aisle to the stage.


    Precisely. But, we also know the complete nature of salvation in Christ, and do not confuse that with our Eternal Security.


    From a temporal perspective, yes, we have been made clean through His blood. That does not mean that we are, temporally speaking, clean.

    Concerning the New Birth, I view that as the result of the Eternal Indwelling of God. When we are immersed into God, that is, Baptized with the Holy Ghost, we partake of His Life, thus have we eternal life. It is His presence in our lives which produces the change that takes place. And I won't speak for others, but for me it was not a "Moses on the Mountain" moment which left me with a glowing face, lol, but has been a tough road of lessons, some harder than others, from day one.

    While my conscience cannot be assailed by fear and doubt concerning whether the Lord has saved me or not, my conscience can be grieved when I sin.

    I would agree. I admit that seldom when I sin is it an accident. An example might be getting angry with someone, and refusing to first not get angry, then secondly not to immediately forgive (and I am not saying getting angry with people is always a sin).


    Agreed. But again, the perfection the Writer speaks of refers to the completion accomplished in regards to Remission of sin. Paul does use some of these variants in regards to Progressive Sanctification, but the Writer of Hebrews is here speaking about Positional Sanctification.


    Possibly, lol. Perhaps as He allowed thorns and thistles to give man something to sweat for.


    In large part, again, I agree.


    I take an entirely different view of the Writer's meaning in 10:26. The context holds in view those who were unbelievers, rather than Christians "willfully sinning."

    Consider:


    Hebrews 10:26-29

    King James Version (KJV)


    26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,


    27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.



    When this is separated from the body of the text it is easy to think this refers to Christians as "adversaries." However, when we keep it in the context...



    28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:


    29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?



    The Writer's effort in much of the Epistle is to encourage his Hebrew Brethren to embrace Christ and the New Covenant. Here, he contrasts, not willfully sinning Christians with Christians who are not willfully sinning, but those who reject the New Covenant with those who rejected the First Covenant.

    Verse 29 states the primary elements of the New Covenant: Christ, The Sacrifice of Christ, The Covenant ratified by His Blood, and the Spirit of Grace (the Comforter, the One that conveys the truth of the Gospel to the hearts of men).

    But that is another discussion entirely, lol.


    Are you saying that we have no power not to sin? Is that the sense you mean?

    Okay, have to get going, but thanks for the response.


    God bless.
     
  7. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain Well-Known Member
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    I see Brother and thanks for all the explanations and for our communications!
     
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