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What do you you guys think about this article claiming infants have faith and should be baptized?
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Writer claims Psalm 22 shows David had saving faith in God as an infant. No, the verse shows David trusted in God to meet his needs as an infant.
Article goes on:
An infant has to constantly look outside of themselves to receive help; they look to others to get food, to move to where they need to be,and for every type of sustenance in life. Is this not precisely what faith is? Looking to one outside of ourselves as helpless creatures?
No, this is not saving faith. This is trusting someone to meet your needs.
Article then uses the unique example of John the Baptist to "prove" that infants can have faith, even in the womb. Problem is that John the Baptist was a special, unique individual selected by God to perform a divine purpose.
Article then uses Matthew 18:1-6 to say that children can have faith, that people in general must have child-like faith in order to believe. No argument here. But then article claims the Greek word used for children usually has reference to infants. I seriously doubt that. (Someone with knowledge of Greek could expound on this.)
My grandfather was a Lutheran pastor. I was raised Lutheran until I got saved at age 13, then was baptized by immersion and started attending Baptist churches. I've never heard this idea that Luther advocated infant baptism because they had faith.
Sent from my Moto Droid Turbo.
Article goes on:
An infant has to constantly look outside of themselves to receive help; they look to others to get food, to move to where they need to be,and for every type of sustenance in life. Is this not precisely what faith is? Looking to one outside of ourselves as helpless creatures?
No, this is not saving faith. This is trusting someone to meet your needs.
Article then uses the unique example of John the Baptist to "prove" that infants can have faith, even in the womb. Problem is that John the Baptist was a special, unique individual selected by God to perform a divine purpose.
Article then uses Matthew 18:1-6 to say that children can have faith, that people in general must have child-like faith in order to believe. No argument here. But then article claims the Greek word used for children usually has reference to infants. I seriously doubt that. (Someone with knowledge of Greek could expound on this.)
My grandfather was a Lutheran pastor. I was raised Lutheran until I got saved at age 13, then was baptized by immersion and started attending Baptist churches. I've never heard this idea that Luther advocated infant baptism because they had faith.
Sent from my Moto Droid Turbo.
Psalm 22:9-10. ‘But you are He who took Me out of the womb; You made Me trust while on My mother’s breasts. I was cast upon You from birth. From My mother’s womb you have been My God.’ The claim that this verse proves that King David must have been born again either in the womb or as a tiny baby.
The first thing to notice is that Psalm 22 is a Messianic Psalm. It is talking about the Lord Jesus Christ who, of course was born totally without sin. But even if we suppose that it also refers to David, what of it? Let’s look at some similar verses.
Psalm 58:3. ‘The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies.’ Are we really to suppose that wicked people are born with the ability to speak so that they can tell lies immediately after birth?
Job 31:18. ‘But from my youth I reared him as a father, and from my mother’s womb I guided the widow.’ Do we really imagine that Job, as a new-born infant, guided and helped widows? The whole idea is preposterous. These verses are poems and are employing poetic imagery.
Texts like these cannot be taken literally. I once read about a British politician who was said to have imbibed socialism with her mother’s milk. Did this person’s parents really mash up pages of the writings of Marx or Beatrice Webb and feed them to her along with her bottle? It was the error of the Pharisees to take our Lord’s words in a crassly literal manner (John 3:4; 6:52). The Bible is a spiritual book and must be read with Spirit-anointed eyes. Inasmuch as Psalm 22 refers to David it says that for as long as he can remember, he has believed in God. That does not mean at all that he had a saving knowledge of God as his redeemer and was looking forward to the coming of the Messiah while still a tiny infant. David knew quite well what his spiritual state was as an infant (Psalm 51:5). There will have been some point in his life, whether he could remember it or not, when, under the teaching of his parents, he came to understand that he was a sinner and that he needed look to God for salvation. This could have happened when he was still quite young, but not before he was born or immediately afterwards. ‘Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God’ (Rom 10:17).
[Taken from my Blog Post Paedofaith and Presumptive Regeneration. Go to the Marprelate blog and search under 'baptism']
The first thing to notice is that Psalm 22 is a Messianic Psalm. It is talking about the Lord Jesus Christ who, of course was born totally without sin. But even if we suppose that it also refers to David, what of it? Let’s look at some similar verses.
Psalm 58:3. ‘The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies.’ Are we really to suppose that wicked people are born with the ability to speak so that they can tell lies immediately after birth?
Job 31:18. ‘But from my youth I reared him as a father, and from my mother’s womb I guided the widow.’ Do we really imagine that Job, as a new-born infant, guided and helped widows? The whole idea is preposterous. These verses are poems and are employing poetic imagery.
Texts like these cannot be taken literally. I once read about a British politician who was said to have imbibed socialism with her mother’s milk. Did this person’s parents really mash up pages of the writings of Marx or Beatrice Webb and feed them to her along with her bottle? It was the error of the Pharisees to take our Lord’s words in a crassly literal manner (John 3:4; 6:52). The Bible is a spiritual book and must be read with Spirit-anointed eyes. Inasmuch as Psalm 22 refers to David it says that for as long as he can remember, he has believed in God. That does not mean at all that he had a saving knowledge of God as his redeemer and was looking forward to the coming of the Messiah while still a tiny infant. David knew quite well what his spiritual state was as an infant (Psalm 51:5). There will have been some point in his life, whether he could remember it or not, when, under the teaching of his parents, he came to understand that he was a sinner and that he needed look to God for salvation. This could have happened when he was still quite young, but not before he was born or immediately afterwards. ‘Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God’ (Rom 10:17).
[Taken from my Blog Post Paedofaith and Presumptive Regeneration. Go to the Marprelate blog and search under 'baptism']
I have no problem w infants having faith. God can quicken whom he chooses; however, baptism is reserved for disciples and yes I did not say believers.
There is a huge difference
There is a huge difference
I cover this in another of my blog posts:
https://marprelate.wordpress.com/2009/12/24/babes-in-christ/
Most of the 'infant' words used in the N.T. are actually used most of the time to speak of adults (eg. 1 John 2:1; Mark 10:24). In Matthew 18:2, the Greek word is paidion. The only time we are told the age of a paidion, it is the case of Jairus' daughter (Mark 5:41-42). She was 12.
Believres, as we would not hold to baptismal regeneration!