Reformed Pastor Shares Emotional Hug with the Pope

[Adonia]

The church of rome does not teach the gospel according to Jesus...

Sorry brother, but the Latin Rite teaches Christ crucified for our sins, so much so that it is the highlight of our worship service. The difference between us and you is best explained thusly: We have an altar in our houses of worship, you have a pulpit.

 

[Yeshua1]

Sorry brother, but the Latin Rite teaches Christ crucified for our sins, so much so that it is the highlight of our worship service. The difference between us and you is best explained thusly: We have an altar in our houses of worship, you have a pulpit.

You deny saved by grace alone/faith alone, as you have God instead givng sacramental grace thru 7 sacraments, that denies suffiecency of the Cross!

 

[Adonia]

You deny saved by grace alone/faith alone, as you have God instead givng sacramental grace thru 7 sacraments, that denies suffiecency of the Cross!

We don't deny anything that exists in the Holy Scriptures, we take it all into account. Like I said before, I could point out in the Scriptures where baptism is required in order to have salvation, such as:

1 Peter 3:21 says: "and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ".

Or: Mark 16:16 "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned".

And: Acts 2:38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Being the astute person that you are, I am sure you can see the recurring theme here. Not just faith/grace alone, but other things (in this case baptism) as well.

 

[Adonia]

Still having trouble with software--cannot edit.

One last point regarding apparent gaps in ecclesiastical continuity: there is some real serious stretching to get a succession of papal authority from Peter to the 4th century circa Council of Nicea, which was called at the behest of the pagan emperor, Constantine, The Great. It is also difficult to corroborate The Apostle Peter was ever in Rome. Much of this information is speculation of making the data fit the curve. I wonder if Benedict Emeritus knows what happened? Is it possible he is on the list of antipopes?

Re: track record, see list of apologies by Pope John Paul II. He is also quoted as saying: "An excuse is worse and more terrible than a lie, for an excuse is a lie guarded." Interesting.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

How about these words from the early church fathers?

St. Irenaeus
"The blessed apostles [Peter and Paul], having founded and built up the church [of Rome] . . . handed over the office of the episcopate to Linus" (Against Heresies 3:3:3 [A.D. 189]).

St. Augustine

"If all men throughout the world were such as you most vainly accuse them of having been, what has the chair of the Roman church done to you, in which Peter sat, and in which Anastasius sits today?" (Against the Letters of Petilani 2:118 [A.D. 402]).

"If the very order of episcopal succession is to be considered, how much more surely, truly, and safely do we number them from Peter himself, to whom, as to one representing the whole Church, the Lord said, ‘Upon this rock I will build my Church’ . . . [Matt. 16:18]. Peter was succeeded by Linus, Linus by Clement, Clement by Anacletus, Anacletus by Evaristus . . . " (Letters 53:1:2 [A.D. 412]).
St. Jerome

"[Pope] Stephen . . . was the blessed Peter’s twenty-second successor in the See of Rome" (Against the Luciferians 23 [A.D. 383]).

"Clement, of whom the apostle Paul writing to the Philippians says ‘With Clement and others of my fellow-workers whose names are written in the book of life,’ the fourth bishop of Rome after Peter, if indeed the second was Linus and the third Anacletus, although most of the Latins think that Clement was second after the apostle" (Lives of Illustrious Men 15 [A.D. 396]).

"Since the East, shattered as it is by the long-standing feuds, subsisting between its peoples, is bit by bit tearing into shreds the seamless vest of the Lord . . . I think it my duty to consult the chair of Peter, and to turn to a church [Rome] whose faith has been praised by Paul [Rom. 1:8]. I appeal for spiritual food to the church whence I have received the garb of Christ. . . . Evil children have squandered their patrimony; you alone keep your heritage intact" (Letters 15:1 [A.D. 396]).

Are these mere musings or the truth as these men of the early Church saw it?

 

[utilyan]

We seem to be having trouble with the software on this site.

Apostasy when? Try Book of Jude, memorize verse 3. The mystery of iniquity was already working even as the Holy Writ was being written--canon or not. God's Word does not need the canonization of depraved man to be declared Holy and sola. The Word is Truth whether we believe it or not.

Paul the Apostle, told the Galatians they had been bewitched to another gospel. They were also keeping days, times and seasons--Paul said he was afraid of them. The seven churches of Asia, Apocalypse 2,3 were having problems with false doctrine, circa 95AD, some worse than others. The deeds of the Nicolaitans is an interesting study.

The Book of Revelation takes The Bride all the way to eternity and a new heaven and new earth.
There are no gaps in the continuity of Jesus' promise to keep Her even through the gates of hell.
To be sure, Satan has tried to destroy the record. If one takes The New Testament Church in the Book of Acts and follows their Faith and Practice through two thousand years, that same Faith and Practice can still be found, as promised by the Lord Jesus, The Christ.

Here is the bone of contention: The Bride never went through Rome, Constantinople, Wittenburg or Geneva. This is not about a denomination or a name. New Testament Churches have never been connected with Rome nor the failed Reformation of Rome

Filling in the gaps that are not there with extra-biblical writings of so-called holy fathers is an exercise ending in confusion. Those gentlemen cannot agree on the nature of baptism. This is still a major doctrinal dilemma. Many Christians have been killed refusing to bow to the authority of Rome.

EVIDENCE? You falsely accuse people. No evidence just makes you a LIAR.

I asked you to name one living soul who got it right after the apostles, you come up with zip.

I'm willing to bet you can't give name of one person even know who has the faith of Christianity correct.


All your stolen bible verses, and reading peoples private letters without their permission means nothing because you do not have the authority to select the canon of scripture.

 

[Bro. James]

What about the apologies from Pope John Paul II? How can this be the Bride of Christ, without spot, blemish or any such thing? The exploits of the Medici popes is an interesting study.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

[Adonia]

What about the apologies from Pope John Paul II? How can this be the Bride of Christ, without spot, blemish or any such thing? The exploits of the Medici popes is an interesting study.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

Because God chose sinners right from the beginning to do his work here on earth. St. Paul was the biggest killer and torturer of Jews, yet God chose him to be His number one evangelist. God has done this time and time again with men like St. Augustine, a person went from being a great sinner to a great man of the Church. Look, God even has accepted me as one of his own!

 

[Bro. James]

Because God chose sinners right from the beginning to do his work here on earth. St. Paul was the biggest killer and torturer of Jews, yet God chose him to be His number one evangelist. God has done this time and time again with men like St. Augustine, a person went from being a great sinner to a great man of the Church. Look, God even has accepted me as one of his own!

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Jesus' admonition to the woman taken in adultery: "Go thy way and sin no more."

The blood of the innocent still cries out. Judgement is coming. Are we ready?

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

[Yeshua1]

We don't deny anything that exists in the Holy Scriptures, we take it all into account. Like I said before, I could point out in the Scriptures where baptism is required in order to have salvation, such as:

1 Peter 3:21 says: "and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ".

Or: Mark 16:16 "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned".

And: Acts 2:38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Being the astute person that you are, I am sure you can see the recurring theme here. Not just faith/grace alone, but other things (in this case baptism) as well.

First verse that you cited refers to thresurrction of Jesu saving us, NOT te rite of wate baptism...
Second verse sttes that belief saves, not water
Third verse, in the Greek text, states that we re baptized into what saves us, Jesus Christ
None ofthem support baptismal regeneration!

 

[utilyan]

What's funny is our main points of difference is our church says you should behave and do the right thing because those things help you along the way to salvation.

While you guys say election or faith alone, God has to do it all, you don't do a thing. Yet you guys jump ship and ditch the family when things get rocky and say we are wrong for not DOING the things you do.

So you would have to get advice from a Catholic to know the meaning of faith alone.

 

[Yeshua1]

What's funny is our main points of difference is our church says you should behave and do the right thing because those things help you along the way to salvation.

While you guys say election or faith alone, God has to do it all, you don't do a thing. Yet you guys jump ship and ditch the family when things get rocky and say we are wrong for not DOING the things you do.

So you would have to get advice from a Catholic to know the meaning of faith alone.

You do NOT agree with faith alone!

 

[utilyan]

You do NOT agree with faith alone!

I'm sure you can help me Yeshua, which one of these verses is in the bible?

James 2

24You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

James 2

24You see that a man is justified by faith alone and not by works.



One of those is right the other is FALSE EXACT OPPOSITE.

 

[Yeshua1]

I'm sure you can help me Yeshua, which one of these verses is in the bible?

James 2

24You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

James 2

24You see that a man is justified by faith alone and not by works.



One of those is right the other is FALSE EXACT OPPOSITE.

Paul states that a sinner is saved thru faith alone, James agrees, was just stating that once saved, will show that by good works now!

 

[Adonia]

You do NOT agree with faith alone!

Yes, we do not agree by faith alone - everything is combined. One is not saved just by having faith if that person has a sexual life without marriage. One is not saved by faith if the command to be baptized is not followed. One is not saved by just having faith if one does not eat His body and drink His blood. And on and on and on.

Having faith is just the beginning, it is the first step in the lifelong process of attempting to live a holy and pleasing life to God. It is declaring to oneself that you have trust in what God is saying even though we have never seen one thing of what we are being told to believe. We believe because we have faith - it's that simple.

 

[Bro. James]

Yes, we do not agree by faith alone - everything is combined. One is not saved just by having faith if that person has a sexual life without marriage. One is not saved by faith if the command to be baptized is not followed. One is not saved by just having faith if one does not eat His body and drink His blood. And on and on and on.

Having faith is just the beginning, it is the first step in the lifelong process of attempting to live a holy and pleasing life to God. It is declaring to oneself that you have trust in what God is saying even though we have never seen one thing of what we are being told to believe. We believe because we have faith - it's that simple.

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How do you know if you have done enough good works? What if you come up short on good works?
"Not by acts of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit; which He shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by His Grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life." Titus 3:5-7.

See also: Ephesians, 2:8-10, "For by grace are you saved through faith, That not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works least anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works; which God has before ordained that we should walk in them."

These scriptures require no interpretation or commentary. There is one prerequisite: being born again. See John 3:5, in context.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

[Adonia]

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How do you know if you have done enough good works? What if you come up short on good works?
"Not by acts of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit; which He shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by His Grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life." Titus 3:5-7.

See also: Ephesians, 2:8-10, "For by grace are you saved through faith, That not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works least anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works; which God has before ordained that we should walk in them."

These scriptures require no interpretation or commentary. There is one prerequisite: being born again. See John 3:5, in context.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

We know we will come up short on good works, it is Jesus sacrifice that really did it all, but then after that it comes down to the individual, but that is not the question. The question is: "Is having faith the only way to salvation"? And John 3:5 points this out perfectly. It says: "Jesus answered “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit".

Born of water - ummmmm, let's see, isn't that baptism? Why yes Wilber, that is correct! Baptism is the first part of what Jesus said and then it's the inner spiritual aspect - all flowing from His great sacrifice. Baptism is not a suggestion, it is a requirement.

 

[Bro. James]

We know we will come up short on good works, it is Jesus sacrifice that really did it all, but then after that it comes down to the individual, but that is not the question. The question is: "Is having faith the only way to salvation"? And John 3:5 points this out perfectly. It says: "Jesus answered “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit".

Born of water - ummmmm, let's see, isn't that baptism? Why yes Wilber, that is correct! Baptism is the first part of what Jesus said and then it's the inner spiritual aspect - all flowing from His great sacrifice. Baptism is not a suggestion, it is a requirement.

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Do you know anyone who was not gestated in a womb full of water? Not many. Water does not wash away sin. Now what?

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James.

 

[utilyan]

Paul states that a sinner is saved thru faith alone, James agrees, was just stating that once saved, will show that by good works now!

All I asked is for you to show us which verse is true. You don't want to because you hate the scriptures.

We don't preach works alone. We are just saying its not faith alone.

James 2
26For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

Body = Faith

Works = Spirit.


Practice what you preach. Dead body alone theology. Should pile up dead bodies = pile up faith, in front your church see if something happens.

 

[Adonia]

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Do you know anyone who was not gestated in a womb full of water? Not many. Water does not wash away sin. Now what?

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James.

Just reading what is actually in the Scriptures. What's the matter, can't you comprehend what is meant in John 3:5 - it's pretty clear. (I thought folks like you were good at that sort of thing - oh well). And did you miss when I wrote: "His great sacrifice"? Duh!

 

[Bro. James]

Just reading what is actually in the Scriptures. What's the matter, can't you comprehend what is meant in John 3:5 - it's pretty clear. (I thought folks like you were good at that sort of thing - oh well). And did you miss when I wrote: "His great sacrifice"? Duh!

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Did you not spend about 40 weeks in the waters of your mother"s womb. Notice the question of Nicodemus: "Can I enter my mother's womb a second time? This is about physical birth and spiritual birth. Being born of water has nothing to do with being born of The Spirit. Do not marvel, you must be born from above to see the kingdom of God. This has nothing to do with baptism or other acts of righteousness which we may or may not do.

"Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sin." Baptism does not regenerate anything.

Now what?

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James