Neuroscience says free will does not exist.

[utilyan]

What a person believes is irrelevant. What a judge decides, based upon the law, is what matters.
The law of God declares us guilty. The penalty for sin is death. That means you go to hell, unless the Judge pardons you of your sins.





Nowhere do you find a doctrine of Satan in the Bible.

You can find that God declares no one to be righteous, not even one. You can find God saying that all have sinned and fall short of God’s glory. You can find God declaring that the wages of sin is death.

Why do you ignore God's word and create a false "doctrine of Satan" narrative?




Who did Paul write his letter to? Was it to believers or to non-believers?

God does demonstrate his love to his chosen, adopted children. He does not demonstrate that love to the unredeemed. Your own verse shows your doctrine to be wrong.



What? What does "the very top of heaven" even mean?

You keep preaching universalism and denying it at the same time. You seem very confused.



Satan accuses the elect. Satan just uses any means he can to try stop God from saving the elect. It is an effort of futility on his part.


Read Hebrews 12. God only disciplines his children, not those who are illegitimate.

Hebrews 12:5-8
[5]And have you forgotten the encouraging words God spoke to you as his children? He said, “My child, don’t make light of the lord’s discipline, and don’t give up when he corrects you.
[6]For the lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes each one he accepts as his child.”
[7]As you endure this divine discipline, remember that God is treating you as his own children. Who ever heard of a child who is never disciplined by its father?
[8]If God doesn’t discipline you as he does all of his children, it means that you are illegitimate and are not really his children at all.

Satan tempted Adam and Eve because he thought they deserve hell. Tells them they are once saved always saved:

Genesis 3
4The serpent said to the woman, “You surely will not die!


Sins don't do a thing to God who is forever perfect.

If God did not care for a soul he wouldn't bother pointing out when it sins.

Via God's COMMAND that all should not sin, that all should love God and all should love neighbor, It is quite clear who he has chosen to discipline.


God is such a good thing that even a rumor of existing qualifies as a mercy on all.





2 Peter 2

1But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.


Calvin wrote big works, some even say he was educated. But apparently ignorant of this verse, or did he conveniently omit it?

Here is false prophets who deny Christ died for them.



Here is another similar passage

1 John 5
9If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater; for the testimony of God is this, that He has testified concerning His Son. 10The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. 11And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.


Isn't the "reprobate" in question here telling the TRUTH? The only way he can be a LIAR is he was offered eternal life. But if you claim he never died for them.......Then he can't be calling God a liar at all.

The "reprobate" is denying that God has given him eternal life in his son.


So is this a HONEST REPROBATE? Or is he really calling God a Liar?

 

[MennoSota]

Satan tempted Adam and Eve because he thought they deserve hell.

Not once does the Bible say this. You are creating a position from the figment of your imagination.

Tells them they are once saved always saved:

Genesis 3
4The serpent said to the woman, “You surely will not die!

What a terrible interpretation and a terrible attempt to make that verse into a verse about God's salvation. Shake my head.

Sins don't do a thing to God who is forever perfect.

No duh. Sins do everything to humans who are guilty of breaking God's laws.

If God did not care for a soul he wouldn't bother pointing out when it sins.

No duh. God shares the truth with all humanity. That does not mean all humanity is saved.

Via God's COMMAND that all should not sin, that all should love God and all should love neighbor, It is quite clear who he has chosen to discipline.

No it's not. You don't even make any sense.

God is such a good thing that even a rumor of existing qualifies as a mercy on all.

What are you even talking about?
Do you know what mercy is?
Mercy is God not giving to us what we do deserve.

2 Peter 2

1But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.

So stop teaching falseness.

Calvin wrote big works, some even say he was educated. But apparently ignorant of this verse, or did he conveniently omit it?

Here is false prophets who deny Christ died for them.

No Christian denies Christ died for them. No unbeliever believes Christ died for them.

Here is another similar passage

1 John 5
9If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater; for the testimony of God is this, that He has testified concerning His Son. 10The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. 11And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.


Isn't the "reprobate" in question here telling the TRUTH? The only way he can be a LIAR is he was offered eternal life. But if you claim he never died for them.......Then he can't be calling God a liar at all.

The "reprobate" is denying that God has given him eternal life in his son.


So is this a HONEST REPROBATE? Or is he really calling God a Liar?

You misread the passage.
The unbeliever says that God has not died for anyone, including the elect. That is a lie. God had died for his adopted children.

 

[utilyan]

Not once does the Bible say this. You are creating a position from the figment of your imagination.

What a terrible interpretation and a terrible attempt to make that verse into a verse about God's salvation. Shake my head.



No duh. Sins do everything to humans who are guilty of breaking God's laws.

No duh. God shares the truth with all humanity. That does not mean all humanity is saved.


No it's not. You don't even make any sense.


What are you even talking about?
Do you know what mercy is?
Mercy is God not giving to us what we do deserve.



So stop teaching falseness.

No Christian denies Christ died for them. No unbeliever believes Christ died for them.

You misread the passage.
The unbeliever says that God has not died for anyone, including the elect. That is a lie. God had died for his adopted children.

Lets stretch out the context then.

1 john 5

1Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. 2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 4For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
5Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? 6This is the One who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood. It is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. 7For there are three that testify: 8the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement. 9If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater; for the testimony of God is this, that He has testified concerning His Son. 10The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. 11And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.


It tells you why he is a liar, He was given the testimony. So what's the testimony as he receives it? That God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his son. He says I don't believe it was given to me. He makes God a LIAR.

There is slight difference between getting something wrong being ignorant, and not believing and calling God a Liar.


The key things here is testimony of GOD that is given. That HE has testified concerning his son.

If he says YES he would still be a liar under your terms. He's only makes God a liar by not believing God has given him eternal life in his son.


1. Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God.
Where does he say elect few?
No its only concerning about that single person.

2. 5Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
Elect few? No it only concerning that single person.



Look do you believe God has given me eternal life and this life is in his son?

Under your terms your going be a LIAR whether you say yes or no concerning anyone.

So we know the testimony is PERSONAL concerning them.


John's not asking some unbeliever Hay do you believe God has given eternal life to who the heck I don't know who he picked? That's the most absurd testimony.

 

[MennoSota]

Lets stretch out the context then.

1 john 5

1Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. 2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 4For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
5Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? 6This is the One who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood. It is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. 7For there are three that testify: 8the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement. 9If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater; for the testimony of God is this, that He has testified concerning His Son. 10The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. 11And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

Excellent passage. John is writing to Christians.

It tells you why he is a liar, He was given the testimony. So what's the testimony as he receives it? That God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his son. He says I don't believe it was given to me. He makes God a LIAR.

You have a tough time with how John writes.
If the unsaved person says that God does not save, he is calling God a liar. It would make God a liar if the unsaved man were correct. Utilyan, is the unsaved person correct when he says that God does not save?

There is slight difference between getting something wrong being ignorant, and not believing and calling God a Liar.

There is no difference in the fact that all sin and fall short of the glory of God. There is no difference in the fact that there is none righteous, not even one.

The key things here is testimony of GOD that is given. That HE has testified concerning his son.

If he says YES he would still be a liar under your terms. He's only makes God a liar by not believing God has given him eternal life in his son.

He can believe no other way. He's dead in his trespasses and sins. He is by nature in rebellion to God. If this were not so then grace would not be grace.

1. Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God.
Where does he say elect few?
No its only concerning about that single person.

Dead men can't believe. You were dead in your trespasses and sins...but GOD made you alive.

2. 5Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
Elect few? No it only concerning that single person.

No one can believe unless God makes them alive.

Look do you believe God has given me eternal life and this life is in his son?

I have no way of knowing. All I can know is that you do not teach salvation by God's grace through faith. You teach universalism...unless a person chooses orherwise. Grace is nonexistent in your teaching.

Under your terms your going be a LIAR whether you say yes or no concerning anyone.

That's only in your twisted logiv, utilyan.

So we know the testimony is PERSONAL concerning them.


John's not asking some unbeliever Hay do you believe God has given eternal life to who the heck I don't know who he picked? That's the most absurd testimony.

John is writing to Christians and explaining that non-Christians are calling God a liar.

 

[utilyan]

Excellent passage. John is writing to Christians.



You have a tough time with how John writes.
If the unsaved person says that God does not save, he is calling God a liar. It would make God a liar if the unsaved man were correct. Utilyan, is the unsaved person correct when he says that God does not save?

There is no difference in the fact that all sin and fall short of the glory of God. There is no difference in the fact that there is none righteous, not even one.


He can believe no other way. He's dead in his trespasses and sins. He is by nature in rebellion to God. If this were not so then grace would not be grace.



Dead men can't believe. You were dead in your trespasses and sins...but GOD made you alive.


No one can believe unless God makes them alive.




I have no way of knowing. All I can know is that you do not teach salvation by God's grace through faith. You teach universalism...unless a person chooses orherwise. Grace is nonexistent in your teaching.


That's only in your twisted logiv, utilyan.

John is writing to Christians and explaining that non-Christians are calling God a liar.

I believe there is a hell. that's not universalism.


Non-Christians can't call God a Liar, He can't be, Because under your logic "I have no way of knowing". Your just as much as liar under your terms.

Because you don't believe: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.

You can come back and say hey I'm only speaking for myself, no kidding.


Do you walk up to someone who never heard of Jesus and say......well gee do you believe I am saved? -->since your self-declared elect

Do you believe that Jesus died for me? For someone who is certain and self-proclaimed ELECT. lets see you walk the walk then.


Do you believe the testimony that God granted ME eternal life by the life of Jesus?

You should have no problem even flaunting that question. Since your ONLY sure of your own election.

And if you say no to me.....well.....its obvious your a unbeliever and call God a Liar.

That doesn't strike you as silly?

Wouldn't the testimony delivered to one who never heard of Jesus be inclusive of the salvation?

Whereas if its only exclusive to the elect and you can only identify yourself as elect then the only CERTAIN ground by which a faithful person can correctly answer the testimony is by agreeing that God has given you eternal life though Jesus.

 

[AndThisGospel]

....God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.

Good point. The once saved always saved crowd uses the above to insist they have eternal life and they can not lose it, but the verse quoted does not state this.

1 John 5:11 And the witness is this, that God gave unto us eternal life, and this life (eternal life) is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath the life; he that hath not the Son of God hath not the life.

Next verse: 16 If anyone sees his fellow Christian committing a sin not resulting in death, he should ask, and God will grant life to the person who commits a sin not resulting in death. There is a sin resulting in death (i.e., the 2nd death).....

The sin leading to death is the sin of unbelief.

 

[utilyan]

Good point. The once saved always saved crowd uses the above to insist they have eternal life and they can not lose it, but the verse quoted does not state this.

1 John 5:11 And the witness is this, that God gave unto us eternal life, and this life (eternal life) is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath the life; he that hath not the Son of God hath not the life.

Next verse: 16 If anyone sees his fellow Christian committing a sin not resulting in death, he should ask, and God will grant life to the person who commits a sin not resulting in death. There is a sin resulting in death (i.e., the 2nd death).....

The sin leading to death is the sin of unbelief.

"If anyone sees his fellow Christian "

He wouldn't even know how to identify a fellow Christian, elect only. They are absolutely clueless as to who is the elect.


Christians know who Christians are no problem right away.

1 john 3

10By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

1 john 4

7Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love.


God loves everyone, ie God is love. If any brother asks you does God love me? absolutely.

Calvinist response? ::::shrug:::: We don't know. One who does not love DOES NOT KNOW. They don't know who God is.

God is not love for them. God is a terrorist who strapped a bomb on everyone, blows up people because they "deserve it" and thinks you should owe and appreciate him blowing up your friends and sparing your worthless life. FEAR and terrorism. Might makes right.

 

[MennoSota]

I believe there is a hell. that's not universalism.


Non-Christians can't call God a Liar, He can't be, Because under your logic "I have no way of knowing". Your just as much as liar under your terms.

Because you don't believe: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.

You can come back and say hey I'm only speaking for myself, no kidding.


Do you walk up to someone who never heard of Jesus and say......well gee do you believe I am saved? -->since your self-declared elect

Do you believe that Jesus died for me? For someone who is certain and self-proclaimed ELECT. lets see you walk the walk then.


Do you believe the testimony that God granted ME eternal life by the life of Jesus?

You should have no problem even flaunting that question. Since your ONLY sure of your own election.

And if you say no to me.....well.....its obvious your a unbeliever and call God a Liar.

That doesn't strike you as silly?

Wouldn't the testimony delivered to one who never heard of Jesus be inclusive of the salvation?

Whereas if its only exclusive to the elect and you can only identify yourself as elect then the only CERTAIN ground by which a faithful person can correctly answer the testimony is by agreeing that God has given you eternal life though Jesus.

Of course non-Christians can call God a liar. They do it all the time.

After that comment, based upon your false assumption, the rest of you diatribe is just silly talk.

 

[utilyan]

Of course non-Christians can call God a liar. They do it all the time.

After that comment, based upon your false assumption, the rest of you diatribe is just silly talk.

Do you believe the testimony that God granted ME eternal life by the life of Jesus?

 

[MennoSota]

Do you believe the testimony that God granted ME eternal life by the life of Jesus?

Why would I doubt that God might choose you?

 

[AndThisGospel]

Why would I doubt that God might choose you?

Why not everyone? After all God is no respecter of person...that is to say God doesn't' have favorites. Rom 2:11/Gal 3:28

 

[AndThisGospel]

Why would I doubt that God might choose you?

Here's the thing - the lost can point their fingers at God and blame Him for causing them to be lost. They won't blame Satan, but God. Something sounds very wrong with this type of theology.

No, God has saved "all men" in Christ, but in His sovereignty God has given "all men" a "measure of faith" so that they can accept this redemption "in Christ". The lost have only themselves & Satan to blame for rejecting the Spirit of grace, but they can't blame God.

 

[MennoSota]

Here's the thing - the lost can point their fingers at God and blame Him for causing them to be lost. They won't blame Satan, but God. Something sounds very wrong with this type of theology.

We can't say who the unregenerate blame. Unless of course you have been to hell and talked with them. Have you?

No, God has saved "all men" in Christ,

That is a false statement and is not taught in the Bible. You teach it, but your teaching is heretical. I can't mince words with how wrong it is.

but in His sovereignty God has given "all men" a "measure of faith" so that they can accept this redemption "in Christ".

God doesn't give faith to dead people.

God makes people alive in Christ, by His grace, and then He gives them faith to believe. This is the sequence taught in the Bible. Your sequence is false and heretical.

The lost have only themselves & Satan to blame for rejecting the Spirit of grace, but they can't blame God.

You are correct. Humans and their breaking of God's law are entirely to blame. You can't even blame Satan for your rebellion to God. You can hate Satan for tricking you into thinking you are glorious when you really are a sinner. But, you are personally responsible for breaking God's law.

You need a Savior who reaches down to save you from hell. Pray that he might be merciful and graciously pardon you.

 

[AndThisGospel]

God makes people alive in Christ, by His grace, and then He gives them faith to believe. This is the sequence taught in the Bible. Your sequence is false and heretical..

Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of the great love he had for us, 5 (by grace you have been saved), 6 raised us up with him, and seated us with him in the heavens in Christ Jesus...

This was written about 2000 years ago, but after the cross.

Who did God raise up with Christ? Keep in mind you as an individual didn't even exist....

 

[MennoSota]

Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of the great love he had for us, 5 (by grace you have been saved), 6 raised us up with him, and seated us with him in the heavens in Christ Jesus...

This was written about 2000 years ago, but after the cross.

Who did God raise up with Christ? Keep in mind you as an individual didn't even exist....

The elect within Ephesus.

This applies to all whom God has chosen throughout history as God chose us before the foundation of the world.

God is outside of time. Why is that hard for you to comprehend?

 

[utilyan]

Why would I doubt that God might choose you?

That's not my question, Ask Jesus for the answer, He will respond. Pray on this.

Do you believe the testimony that God granted ME eternal life by the life of Jesus?

Yes or No.

 

[MennoSota]

That's not my question, Ask Jesus for the answer, He will respond. Pray on this.

Do you believe the testimony that God granted ME eternal life by the life of Jesus?

Yes or No.

I believe God's word when God says that his children have been chosen since the foundation of the world.

Have you been made alive in Christ? Has God pardoned you by the atoning work of Yeshua when Yeshua took God the Father's wrath upon himself so that you would not face that wrath?
Have you been saved by grace alone?

If you testify, yes, to the above, then I praise God for his mercy and grace given to you though you didn't deserve it.

 

[utilyan]

We can't say who the unregenerate blame. Unless of course you have been to hell and talked with them. Have you?


That is a false statement and is not taught in the Bible. You teach it, but your teaching is heretical. I can't mince words with how wrong it is.



God doesn't give faith to dead people.

God makes people alive in Christ, by His grace, and then He gives them faith to believe. This is the sequence taught in the Bible. Your sequence is false and heretical.


You are correct. Humans and their breaking of God's law are entirely to blame. You can't even blame Satan for your rebellion to God. You can hate Satan for tricking you into thinking you are glorious when you really are a sinner. But, you are personally responsible for breaking God's law.

You need a Savior who reaches down to save you from hell. Pray that he might be merciful and graciously pardon you.

"That is a false statement and is not taught in the Bible. You teach it, but your teaching is heretical. I can't mince words with how wrong it is."

For the longest time there was no such thing as a Greek Calvinist. Because they couldn't butcher the language they actually knew first hand impossible to pretend ALL means SOME.

1 Corinthians 15

22For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.


Let me put my Scholarly Ancient Greek reading glasses here.......
Light my pipe.....

Ahem.....

ὥσπερ γὰρ ἐν τῷ Ἀδὰμ πάντες ἀποθνήσκουσιν, οὕτω καὶ ἐν τῷ Χριστῷ πάντες ζωοποιηθήσονται.
(I pronounced everything in perfectly ancient greek by the way)

For as in Adam πάντες die so also in Christ πάντες will be made alive.

"πάντες pantes <--- Greek for "All" .

We still use the word today. For example your PANTS and PANTIES.

So what I am saying is all mankind lost their pants with Adam and they all got their pants back with Jesus Christ.

 

[MennoSota]

"That is a false statement and is not taught in the Bible. You teach it, but your teaching is heretical. I can't mince words with how wrong it is."

For the longest time there was no such thing as a Greek Calvinist. Because they couldn't butcher the language they actually knew first hand impossible to pretend ALL means SOME.

1 Corinthians 15

22For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.


Let me put my Scholarly Ancient Greek reading glasses here.......
Light my pipe.....

Ahem.....

ὥσπερ γὰρ ἐν τῷ Ἀδὰμ πάντες ἀποθνήσκουσιν, οὕτω καὶ ἐν τῷ Χριστῷ πάντες ζωοποιηθήσονται.
(I pronounced everything in perfectly ancient greek by the way)

For as in Adam πάντες die so also in Christ πάντες will be made alive.

"πάντες pantes <--- Greek for "All" .

We still use the word today. For example your PANTS and PANTIES.

So what I am saying is all mankind lost their pants with Adam and they all got their pants back with Jesus Christ.

Yep, those who are in Christ are alive.

Those who aren't in Christ are dead in their trespasses and sins.

Thanks for sharing. Now stop teaching salvation by works.

 

[AndThisGospel]

The elect within Ephesus.

This applies to all whom God has chosen throughout history as God chose us before the foundation of the world.

God is outside of time. Why is that hard for you to comprehend?

When Christ died how many died? Look it up!