Partial Preterism – promotion, objections & relevance today.

[Covenanter]

Regarding the promise/prophecy given to Abram:

Gen. 12:2 I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: 3 and I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.​

We often hear of Jews contrasted with gowym so it is significant that the Hebrew Scripture promises Abram, "i will make of thee a great gowy." In general the promises to the Patriarchs & the nation Israel use the word gowy. See https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/gen/12/1/t_conc_12002
The https://www.blueletterbible.org is a brilliant resource for Bible study.

The promise is repeated - To Abraham after his sacrifice of Isaac:

Gen. 22:18 and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

To Isaac:
Gen. 26:3 sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father; 4 and I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; 5 because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

To Jacob:
Gen. 28:12 And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it. 13 And, behold, the Lord stood above it, and said, I am the Lord God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed; 14 and thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.​

The promise was of land, to be a great nation & to be a blessing to all nations & families of the earth through the seed.

According to the NC, the 'seed' refers to one, Jesus Christ:

Gal. 3:15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man’s covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. 16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. ​

The Patriarchs never experienced the 'land' promise. Hebrews explains that by faith they saw beyond the land they were living in:

Heb. 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. 9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: 10 for he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised. 12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. 15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. 16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.​

They were looking beyond what they could see - they saw a restored New Heaven & New Earth, with a heavenly city.

The tract of land in the Middle East is of no spiritual nor prophetic significance. All believers have the promise of glory in the presence of our God & Saviour.

If those who call themselves 'Jews' want the promises to Abraham, the Gospel message is clear:

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. 40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Acts 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. 24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. 25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. 26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

Acts 4:10 be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. 11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. 12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.​

As Romans 11 underlines:

23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 for this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

​

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Why I am not a Preterist

1. I believe that the whole idea of an invisible coming of Christ is refuted by Acts 1:11.
The Jesus who will return will be the same Jesus who left, and He will return 'in like manner' to the way He left..
He left visibly; He will return visibly. He left with a real 'flesh and bones' (Luke 24:39) body; He will return with that same body. Witnesses saw Him depart; witnesses will see Him return. Clouds received Him out of their sight; clouds will part to reveal Him (Mark 14:62 etc.).

2. While some of Matthew 24 etc. clearly refers to AD 70, by no means all of it does. Verses 4-14 refer to all the Gospel age: wars and rumours of wars, famines, pestilences, earthquakes, persecution, false prophets, deception, lawlessness- all these have been in evidence ever since the Lord Jesus spoke these words right through to the present day, 'but the end is not yet.'
Verses 15-22 probably do refer to the events of AD 70, though they may also foreshadow some future event; time will tell. But we are told very clearly, 'Then if anyone says to you, "Look, here is the Christ!" or "There!" Do not believe them.' So I don't. When Christ returns, everyone is going to know about it (Matthew 24:27; Revelation 1:7).
In verses 32-35, our Lord tells the disciples that there will be signs by which the destruction of Jerusalem may be anticipated and informs them that it will happen within a generation. But there is another event (v.36) of which no one but the Father knows either the approximate ('day') or the exact ('hour') time. This event will come suddenly and without warning (vs. 37-51; 1 Thessalonians 5:3; 2 Peter 3:10; Revelation 18:8 etc.).

3. Verses which speak of disciples eagerly awaiting the return of Christ do not sit well with His coming in judgement on Jerusalem. In the light of Romans 9:3, why does Paul say 'Maranatha!' in 1 Cor. 15:22 if that coming means nothing but the destruction of thousands of Jews? Consider 1 Corinthians 1:7; Philippians 3:20-21; 1 Thessalonians 1:10; Titus 2:13-14, and Hebrews 9:28. Almost all these people were living hundreds of miles from Jerusalem; why would they be 'eagerly awaiting' the destruction of a city which few of them had ever visited? AD 70 would have made no difference whatsoever to their lives. Like Abraham, they were looking for something much better than that (Hebrews 11:10-16).

I haven't finished, but I have to go out now. Perhaps that little lot will be the basis for some interesting discussion.

 

[kyredneck]

Why I hold to realized eschatology.

101 Preterist Time-Indicators

...besides the fact that I can't bring myself to present Christ and the writers of the NT as liars, or badly mistaken, doing violence to the word of God by pitting scripture against scripture using lame carnal reasoning.to explain away their very plain words.

 

[John of Japan]

JoJ, I think that if you consider this again you may come to a different view.
'.........The Church, of which I became a minister according to the stewardship rom God which was given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God, the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but has now been revealed to the saints. To them God willed to make known the what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory' (Colossians 1:24-27).
What the Spirit is saying to us here is that the word of God as it applied to Christ was a mystery under the OC. The Jews had Psalm 22, Isaiah 53 and a load of other texts but they didn't find Christ in them (John 5:39); they were a mystery to them. Now, with the coming of the Gospel and the NC texts, the mystery is revealed, and Paul's special responsibility is to take the Gospel to the Gentiles, just as Peter's is to take it to the Jews (Galatians 2:7).

I don't follow you. How do these passages teach that we must interpret the OT in the light of the NT as a primary rule of hermeneutics (which it is in covenant theology and NTC)?

If one believes in the process of progressive revelation, then one must believe that the NT builds on the revelation of the OT rather than that the OT must be interpreted by the NT.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Why I hold to realized eschatology.

101 Preterist Time-Indicators

...besides the fact that I can't bring myself to present Christ and the writers of the NT as liars, or badly mistaken, doing violence to the word of God by pitting scripture against scripture using lame carnal reasoning.to explain away their very plain words.

Ahhhh, ha ha ha

 

[John of Japan]

Thanks for contributions so far.

Questions:
Should OC prophecy be understood literally?

I have often encountered this question in the assertion:
"Scripture should be interpreted literally." to my understanding, that is an oxymoron - if Scripture needs interpreting, it is not being understood literally.

Exegesis of the original languages is not so simple. That is why we use the more technical term "grammatical-historical-theological interpretation."

John makes a helpful statement:

Thank you kindly.

I tend to the view that generally the immediate, literal understanding is for the prophet & his hearers, including the nation. There are calls to repentance & warnings of defeat & exile, normally with a promise of restoration. Those calls are taken up in the Gospels & Acts as literally applying to the people Jesus & the Apostles are addressing.

It's hard to know how to answer this thought without actual examples. I will say, though, that you seem to lump foretelling and forth-telling prophecy together.

I reject that teaching. Much prophetic teaching today agrees with MacArthur to such an extent that the present nation of Israel is afforded the blessings promised to Abraham, regardless of non-acceptance of the Messiah, Jesus, & regardless of the lack of faith. The nation Israel becomes the focus of prophecy rather than Jesus Christ & his church of the blood-bought redeemed.

I don't look at it as "either...or."

We need to study prophecy guided by the NC writers & see how the positive promises & prophecies concerning Israel do apply to all the redeemed regardless of ethnicity.

Are the Church & Israel separate entities with different prophetic futures?

Paul very clearly distinguished Israel as a nation of yet unfulfilled promise in Rom. 9-11. For just one example, one cannot take Rom. 9:3-5 as meaning anything else than Israel. It simply cannot mean the church without twisting the Scripture.

3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, 4 who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; 5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.

 

[Darrell C]

The Patriarchs never experienced the 'land' promise. Hebrews explains that by faith they saw beyond the land they were living in:
Heb. 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. 9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: 10 for he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised. 12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

While they did not...their children did.

The tract of land in the Middle East is of no spiritual nor prophetic significance.

Not sure why this conclusion is made. God did, after all, promise that land in relation to making Abraham a great nation:


Genesis 12
King James Version (KJV)

1 Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:


7 And the Lord appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the Lord, who appeared unto him.


Genesis 15:16-18
King James Version (KJV)

16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.

17 And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.

18 In the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:


While it is true Paul identifies the Seed as Christ, we do not limit Christ to this tract of land, lol.

So while might agree there is no "spiritual significance" (though we cannot negate the spiritual aspect of all prophecy and promise), the prophetic significance is considerable, and will determine how one balaances all prophecy from Genesis to Revelation).

I'd be curious how many would agree there is no prophetic significance to God's covenantal promise to Abraham.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

...besides the fact that I can't bring myself to present Christ and the writers of the NT as liars, or badly mistaken, doing violence to the word of God by pitting scripture against scripture using lame carnal reasoning.to explain away their very plain words.

Could you give an example of this?

God bless.

 

[kyredneck]

Could you give an example of this?

Sure. I'll pull a couple quick ones from the list above:

15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment, than for that city.
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name`s sake: but he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.
23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee into the next: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone through the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come. Mt 10

Martin reduces this passage to Christ casually telling His disciples, "You all go on ahead, I'll catch up with you guys later", when Christ's monologue is clearly referring to a much, much greater 'arrival' than that. So, so Lame. Another:

28 Verily I say unto you, there are some of them that stand here, who shall in no wise taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Mt 16
1 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into a high mountain apart:
2 and he was transfigured before them; and his face did shine as the sun, and his garments became white as the light. Mt 17

Martin reduces this to Christ saying, "Some of you will not die within the next six days" by forcing the coming of the son of man to be the transfiguration. So, so Lame.

But hey, if Martin's happy with that sort of shallow exegesis, to each his own!.

 

[Darrell C]

28 Verily I say unto you, there are some of them that stand here, who shall in no wise taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Mt 16
1 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into a high mountain apart:
2 and he was transfigured before them; and his face did shine as the sun, and his garments became white as the light. Mt 17

Martin reduces this to Christ saying, "Some of you will not die within the next six days" by forcing the coming of the son of man to be the transfiguration. So, so Lame.

The first one, well, go figure, lol.

This one, however, I would suggest another meaning: Christ being glorified and the Kingdom in view being that Kingdom into which we are placed in when we are born again.

The disciples were at this point clueless to what is basic to you and I. They were not yet believing in Christ as they would when they received the promise of the Father (Acts 1:4-5).

But I am not sure how the weakness of a Bible commentator would be a good reason to adopt a System.


God bless.

 

[Yeshua1]

Partial Preterism – promotion, objections & relevance today.


The discussion of the thread http://www.baptistboard.com/threads/partial-preterism.103460/ has been far ranging. This is a new thread, as requested, to continue the discussion.


Basic assumptions:

The Bible is the authoritive word on all theological matters. Various translations may be used, but may be considered critically, bearing in mind the same word in the original languages is often translated differently according to context & interpretation.


The Gospels, Acts, & Epistles need little interpetation, but themselves interpret the Old Covenant Scriptures. [I prefer 'covenant' to 'testament' as more accurately defining God's relationship with his people.] I will therefore use OC & NC to refer to the Scriptures.


OC prophecy has three areas of interpretation – immediate relevance to its hearers; prophetic relevance to the nation of Israel; & prophecy concerning Christ – his incarnate life, death & resurrction, & his Gospel Kingdom.


The church of the redeemed people of God comprises Jew & Gentile as one people, one body, believing in Jesus Christ as Lord & Saviour.


The OC nation & rituals centred on Jerusalem became obsolete at Calvary & ceased to exist with the AD 70 destruction. Jews continuing to practice the OC religion in homes & synagogues were/are not saved, but need to repent & believe in Jesus Christ.


There is absolutely no justification for religious persecution, nor for political promotion of any religion.


Jesus will come at the end of the present age to bring about resurrection & a perfect new heaven & new earth.


Questions:


Should OC prophecy be understood literally?


Are the Church & Israel separate entities with different prophetic futures?


Did AD 70 complete the fulfillment of all prophecy apart from the final coming?



Did Jesus come again around AD 70?


Is there a prophetic future for ethnic/national Israel?


How do we understand Revelation?


How does our understanding of prophetic Scripture affect life, fellowship, politics, etc?

What iste main difference between A Mil and partial view?

 

[Yeshua1]

Thank you for opening this thread. I look forward to participating in it as time allows. Your 'basic assumptions' are generally excellent; I make just two comments.
I think you'll find they do!

I would add to that, the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ in glory and the Eternal State (eg. Isaiah 65:17ff).

I will add one other thing which has nothing to do with you personally. On the previous thread there were constant unsubstantiated attacks and sarcasm directed towards Dispensationalists. This really is unhelpful and serves no purpose As far as I am concerned, every eschatological belief that allows for the return of our Lord Jesus Christ in glory is OK by me. Inevitably one view (mine! ) is right and the rest wrong, and that's why we discuss them, but let's remember that we are all brothers in Christ.

Thank you for those words, as indeed, we are all one in Christ, and also note that there are some who assumet God ghs fully written off the jewish people, and seem to have a very bitter atitutude towards them!

 

[Yeshua1]

The Church IS the Israel of God!

14 But far be it from me to glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world hath been crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
15 For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16 And as many as shall walk by this rule, peace be upon them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
Gal 6

The church is not Israel, but spirtual israel would be the Jews saved by Yeshua and now part of the church, and national israel shall be saved at second coming of Christ!

 

[Yeshua1]

ALL shall see the coming of Jesus, as lighning flashes from east to west across the sky, there shall be the resurrection of dead saints and those alive, there shall be new heaven earth, and NONE of that happened AD 70!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Sure. I'll pull a couple quick ones from the list above:

15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment, than for that city.
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name`s sake: but he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.
23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee into the next: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone through the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come. Mt 10

Martin reduces this passage to Christ casually telling His disciples, "You all go on ahead, I'll catch up with you guys later", when Christ's monologue is clearly referring to a much, much greater 'arrival' than that. So, so Lame. Another:

28 Verily I say unto you, there are some of them that stand here, who shall in no wise taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Mt 16
1 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into a high mountain apart:
2 and he was transfigured before them; and his face did shine as the sun, and his garments became white as the light. Mt 17

Martin reduces this to Christ saying, "Some of you will not die within the next six days" by forcing the coming of the son of man to be the transfiguration. So, so Lame.

But hey, if Martin's happy with that sort of shallow exegesis, to each his own!.

Why Larry are you being sarcastic? Point it out & be done with it.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Sure. I'll pull a couple quick ones from the list above:

15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment, than for that city.
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name`s sake: but he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.
23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee into the next: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone through the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come. Mt 10

Martin reduces this passage to Christ casually telling His disciples, "You all go on ahead, I'll catch up with you guys later", when Christ's monologue is clearly referring to a much, much greater 'arrival' than that. So, so Lame.

Ah1 So that's what's making you so grumpy. I thought it might be indigestion.
As I pointed out before, whatever the text means, it cannot mean that it would take the disciples 40 years to go through the cities (not the villages) of Israel (they are told not to go to the Gentiles or the Samaritans). Israel was (as it is now) a small country, and a year would probably have cracked it.
I suggested two meanings to you, but I forgive you for only mentioning one. Either the disciples would not have got around the cities of Israel before the risen Lord Jesus came to them with new instructions which involved going to the Samaritans and the Gentiles (Acts 1:8 etc.), or He meant that His disciples would not have finished getting around all the cities where God's elect are found before His return in glory. Not much Christian witness in Mogadishu or Mecca as yet.

Another:

28 Verily I say unto you, there are some of them that stand here, who shall in no wise taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Mt 16
1 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into a high mountain apart:
2 and he was transfigured before them; and his face did shine as the sun, and his garments became white as the light. Mt 17

Martin reduces this to Christ saying, "Some of you will not die within the next six days" by forcing the coming of the son of man to be the transfiguration. So, so Lame.

Yeah! It was only the pathetic old transfiguration. Nothing glorious in that.
'For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eye-witnesses of His majesty. For He received from God the father honour and glory when such a voice came to Him from the excellent glory; "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain' (2 Peter 1:16-18).

Perhaps that's why all three accounts of Christ's words are immediately followed by the account of His 'power and coming' in the glorious transfiguration.

But hey, if Martin's happy with that sort of shallow exegesis, to each his own!.

Yep! Pretty happy. But any exegesis is better than none, which is what you tend to provide. Instead, all we get is a long string of texts with no context- in other words, a pretext.

 

[Yeshua1]

Sure. I'll pull a couple quick ones from the list above:

15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment, than for that city.
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name`s sake: but he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.
23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee into the next: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone through the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come. Mt 10

Martin reduces this passage to Christ casually telling His disciples, "You all go on ahead, I'll catch up with you guys later", when Christ's monologue is clearly referring to a much, much greater 'arrival' than that. So, so Lame. Another:

28 Verily I say unto you, there are some of them that stand here, who shall in no wise taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Mt 16
1 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into a high mountain apart:
2 and he was transfigured before them; and his face did shine as the sun, and his garments became white as the light. Mt 17

Martin reduces this to Christ saying, "Some of you will not die within the next six days" by forcing the coming of the son of man to be the transfiguration. So, so Lame.

But hey, if Martin's happy with that sort of shallow exegesis, to each his own!.

Jesus was the Son of Man, so he was already come unto them, and some of them were at the Mount of Transfiguration, correct?

 

[Yeshua1]

Why I hold to realized eschatology.

101 Preterist Time-Indicators

...besides the fact that I can't bring myself to present Christ and the writers of the NT as liars, or badly mistaken, doing violence to the word of God by pitting scripture against scripture using lame carnal reasoning.to explain away their very plain words.

You MUST factor intot he Gospels Revelation and Paul Epistles, and they both agree tha econd coming yet to come, and that It will be a physical world wide event!

 

[kyredneck]

seem to have a very bitter atitutude towards them!

Oh give me a break. Any bitter attitude I may have is solely toward the heretical Zionism that Dispensationalism has morphed into. You people are the most dangerous cult on earth. All other systems of eschatology are rather benign as to their immediate effect on the human race in general, but there is NOTHING benign about the war mongering of Christian Zionism.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Covenanter--- I had the pleasure of viewing a conversation between Sinclair Ferguson & R.C. Sproll at a Ligonier conference. At one point in the conversation Ferguson sighted an experience he had had with one of his teachers----who told him, If you think our theology is wackie, just wait till you go to America!

I will bet you are beginning to understand something of what Dr. Ferguson had imparted to him.