I merely asked the question. I made no assumptions.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Milo Yiannopoulos and the Church of Winning
- Thread starter Rolfe
- Start date
I merely asked the question. I made no assumptions.
Your question reveals your interpretation which I rejected many times in this thread.
Your question assumes that one cannot eat with anyone that is a false Christian. I have never made that claim. I said per Pauls instruction in 1 Cor. 5 which you quoted I could not eat with Trump because he claims to be a Christian. I assumed (incorrectly obviously given YOUR false interpretation of this passage) that you would understand I was saying that Trump fit the description given in 1 Cor. 5.12 as I quoted you where you quoted the passage. To me its a straightforward verse but let me lay it out for you.
Here is the verse in question: But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one.
So the way I look at it, anyone that claims to be a Christian "bears the name brother" if he is "guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler", we are not to eat with them. Its a pretty straight forward verse.
With Trump I'm willing to give you that 5 out of the 6 currently do not apply but no one here can argue that he is not a reviler, given that he is frequently praised for his reviling comments.
So there is my interpretation laid out again for all to see. Your interpretation as presented in your question is incorrect and I reject it plain and simple.
Ah. In other words you got nothing. Just an empty accusation.
No I have multiple time where you ask a question that has a false premise or interpretion in this casae behind it. Its like asking "Do you still beat your cat?"
To ask the question one must presume that the other person at one time beat their cat. In other words its a trick question. I just refused to play your game and called you out on the false assumption behind your question.
....whatever that means.
What I've gotten from you is hypocrisy. You have one standard from Donald Trump, whom you don't like, and other for people you like. This makes sense. Love covers a multitude of sins. Trump has his sins, especially in his younger years, and you hold that against him. Doesn't matter that he is pro life, he was once pro choice and that's unforgivable (at least for Trump). Doesn't matter that he nominated Gorsuch, he once praised the non-abortion services of PP. Unforgivable. You remind of the the prodigal son—the one that was jealous.
what if the church is wrong? I know a guy who is being run out by the pastor because the pastor runs a school & wants the guy to list his 11 YO daughter as having Ausbergers. The back story is if the guy does that then the school gets State money, something the Pastor really wants to do so he can build a special program for (of course with State Funding). The fathers assessment is No, my daughter is perfectly OK, so back off. The pastor said that the father is not obeying him & so kicked him out. Tell me, was that fair?
No what you have gotten from me is Biblical Standards, or as you call it Smugness. I have noticed you have not responded to 1Cor 5:12 with a correct interpretation, just your false assumption about it that you use to attack other with while admitting that you don't follow your interpretation yourself.
If you take Trump at his word, he is a faithful Christian. I think we can all conclude that this is a lie & he is not. Plus he is a serial adulterer (Vll Commandment), he bears false witness-XI, the guy lies like he breathes, and I and allot of others in here could keep going. As a professing Christian, has he ever publicly repented & changed his ways.....or does he continue on? Trust me I wouldn't want to eat with him either.
Of course it is not fair. But neither does it have anything to do with biblical church discipline.
And how do we conclude that? Can we see his heart?
1 Corinthians 6:11a And such were some of you.
How do you know he has not repented and changed his ways? Several Christian leaders have stated the opposite, and the difference between you and them is that they were in his personal presence at the time.
I don't want to eat with him either. But neither do I want to give in to the flesh and appoint myself his judge, jury, and executioner.
Yes, such statements can give us an indication, but they are not always conclusive.
I too sometimes tend to believe that those who admit any works at all into their soteriology are quite possibly lacking the Lord's salvation (Romans 11:6).
But as I cannot see their hearts I avoid such fleshly thoughts.
You might be surprised, but I agree. They might have bad theology, or they might be extremely inarticulate. So it's never an easy task.
That said, Christ said, by your fruits you will know them. We shouldn't come to snap conclusions but also shouldn't just sit back and declare "anything goes." Both would be fleshly approaches.
Uh, you are aware, are you not, that the context of that statement was how to identify the spirit of anti-Christ?
According to that particular Pastor, it does.
Uh, no. Read the context. It's about false prophets, bad trees who bear bad fruit and about those who call Him Lord Lord but do not do his will and do not enter the kingdom. This is the immediate context.
Exactly. How to identify the spirit of anti-Christ, not how to identify a saved person.
Certainly that's included, but I don't think the passage limits it to this.
Matt. 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, “Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, “I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
This is about identifying works. This is not limited to false teachings. We as Christians can be and should be looking at the fruit of those saying Lord Lord.
Thats quite a revelation......please show me.
Both Jeffress and Falwell Jr. have stated they believe he's repented and is a believer. I would defer to them, as they know him on a spiritual level much better than I do. I will say though, that moving from pro-choice to pro-life is a huge indicator. I didn't do that until I got saved myself.