1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Does a false prophet or Christ know that they are one? And do they believe in their own delusions?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Neonap, Feb 28, 2017.

Tags:
Top Posters
  1. Neonap

    Neonap New Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2017
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    1
    I ask because I have been studying the cult heaven's gate, a cult that committed mass suicide sometime in the late 1990s. The thing that intrigues me the most is the cult leader, from what I've researched and have gathered, I've come to the opinion that unlike many cult leaders, Marshall believed in what he was preaching. My question to you is how does someone become this deluded, in the past he had went to a seminar and studied the bible so I wonder where everything went wrong. There are possible hints in his past as to what the possible culprit could have been.. At a time in his own words( felt like his life was falling apart) his marriage with his wife had ended up in a divorce, If im not mistaken two years after that his father who was a minister had passed which of course took a toll on him. Later on as a music teacher left his job due to emotional problems. His friend also recalled a time where Marshall had told him that he had a vision about the beginning of the world. Now due to his venerable state, depression and mental breakdown, this is the event that in my opinion led him astray. There are differing accounts to this but, he had met this nurse named Bonnie nettles who had changed his whole outlook on things and convinced him that he had a purpose. I personally believe the account where his sister had said that he was recovering from a heart attack and had a near death experience, and in the hospital is where Bonnie told him that God kept him alive for a purpose; a mission. His sister recalled how she had a major influence on him. But I'm not going to get into much detail since I've given much already but on to my questions. In my opinion Marshall didn't seem selfish in a sense that it would benefit him. Fame, sex, money, etc etc. He even had himself castrated alonside a few other followers because the group required that you give up on the bodies desires.(Not all the men in the cult had gotten castrated) When I look at the man known as Marshall Applewhite, I see a person who sincerely believed in his own delusional mission to be a messiah to a world that seemed corrupt and very dark. A broken man who thought he had good intentions; promising a way to heaven but tragically was deceived by the thing he thought he was against.. Satan. I just wonder what led him to his delusional thinking? We know there is a spiritual side to things, could Satan have been the culprit? Possession? Mental illness?
     
    #1 Neonap, Feb 28, 2017
  2. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2017
    Messages:
    2,391
    Likes Received:
    315
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Why not all of the above as my pastor might put it. This may be either/or but doesn't have to be. Certainly a false prophet that denies the humanity of Jesus and thus the Cross has the spirit of the antichrist at work in them at least (1 John 4:1-3). They must therefore have Satan working in them in some way to be a false prophet.

    From an Old Testament angle, the false prophets that accosted Jeremiah certainly believed what they were saying and often staked their lives on it, given that if they were wrong they could be killed by the king or an invading army. It makes sense to flee Israel before an invasion, not sit around as a court prophet if Nebuchadnezzar is going to win after all. The priests of Baal are another great example of false prophets staking their lives and blood, as they shed it profusely to get fire to rain down, on the accuracy of their prophecy.

    I myself was a false prophet up until two weeks ago and you can read the story here:
    http://www.baptistboard.com/threads/thank-you-for-helping-to-free-me-from-the-enemy.103783/

    I truly believed that the spirit talking to me was the Holy Spirit. This was plainly wrong according to the bible though if I had only looked at it objectively. I also had mental illness feeding my delusions of grandeur, and something you didn't mention made things worse: which is our own bag of sins we bring into the mix. My arrogance, self-centeredness, deceitfulness, conceit, boastfulness, haughtiness, and resentment were what made me all too susceptible to a far darker and reprobate sin than all of these: false prophecy.
     
    #2 Steven Yeadon, Feb 28, 2017
  3. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    20,080
    Likes Received:
    3,491
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Marshall Applewhite was seriously emotionally ill. He was the son of a very strict Presbyterian pastor and, in his early teens, realized he was experiencing physical attraction to other boys. Because of his strict upbringing this caused him serious emotional turmoil.

    He married in an attempt to appear more "normal" to his peers and especially his father. After graduating from college and attending seminary he was drafted into the Army and served two years. He attended the University of Colorado, where he earned a master's degree in music and became a music minister at a number of churches.

    He then accepted a position teaching music at the University of Alabama but was fired when it was discovered he was in a homosexual relationship with one of his students. His wife left him over the affair and he descended deeper into the depression that had plagued him since he was a teen.

    He then accepted a teaching position at the University of St. Thomas in Houston, Texas where he lived an openly gay lifestyle. He resigned from the University of St. Thomas in 1970, citing depression and other emotional problems. A contributing factor was probably that he was, once again, involved in a homosexual relationship with one of his younger students. By this time he was about 40 years old. Those closest to him at this time said he was often mentally jumbled and disorganized in his speech.

    He was arrested in Harlingen, Texas (just down the road from me) for stealing a car. His defense was that God had authorized him to keep the car.

    As his mental state continued to deteriorate he sunk deeper and deeper into his mental illness. He eventually dealt with his homosexual attractions by having himself emasculated by a doctor in Mexico.

    In 1985 his platonic companion, Bonnie Nettles, died of cancer and Applewhite sunk even deeper into depression and mental illness, he grew more and more paranoid, seeing a conspiracy in almost everything.

    And the rest is history. In 1997 the Sheriff's Department, acting on a "check the welfare" call found Applegate and 38 of his followers dead in the mansion they rented in Rancho Santa Fe, California, a suburb of San Diego.

    Did he believe his own delusions? Probably. But the basis of both those delusions and his belief in them was rooted in his own mental illness.

    There but for the grace of God . . . . . .
     
    #3 TCassidy, Feb 28, 2017
    • Informative Informative x 1
  4. Rob_BW

    Rob_BW Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2015
    Messages:
    4,324
    Likes Received:
    1,246
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yep, 20 years ago at the end of this month.

    A couple of the followers keep the original website running, still believing that madness.
     
    #4 Rob_BW, Feb 28, 2017
    • Like Like x 1
  5. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2010
    Messages:
    10,285
    Likes Received:
    163
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Also remember that devils probably influenced this man a little.
     
    #5 evangelist6589, Mar 5, 2017
    • Agree Agree x 2
  6. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2017
    Messages:
    2,391
    Likes Received:
    315
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I agree. I would say a bit more than this based on the bible though. 1 John 4:1-3 and 1 John 5:19 seem to indicate both that those who reject the Son are under the guidance of the devil, and that false prophets breath out their folly by means of the spirit of the antichrist. This despite how mundane this might all look.
     
    #6 Steven Yeadon, Mar 5, 2017
  7. Jope

    Jope Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2012
    Messages:
    658
    Likes Received:
    15
    Faith:
    Baptist
    God can send a strong delusion to get people to believe in their own lie.

    1 Kings 22 NET
    20The Lord said, ‘Who will deceive Ahab, so he will attack Ramoth Gilead and die there?’ One said this and another that. 21Then a spirit stepped forward and stood before the Lord. He said, ‘I will deceive him.’ The Lord asked him, ‘How?’ 22He replied, ‘I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets.’ The Lord said, ‘Deceive and overpower him. Go out and do as you have proposed.’ 23So now, look, the Lord has placed a lying spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours; but the Lord has decreed disaster for you.”24Zedekiah son of Kenaanah approached, hit Micaiah on the jaw [it sounds like he firmly believes that his own false prophecy is true], and said, “Which way did the Lord’s spirit go when he went from me to speak to you?”

    2 Thess. 2:11 NIV
    God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie

    Romans 10 NET
    2 For I can testify that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not in line with the truth. 3 For ignoring the righteousness that comes from God, and seeking instead to establish their own righteousness, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4 For Christ is the end of the law, with the result that there is righteousness for everyone who believes.
    ​
    They seek to establish their own righteousness, and think and are fully convinced they are doing God's will. "the time is coming when those who kill you will think they are doing a holy service for God" (John 16:2; cf also 2 Tim 3:13).
     
    #7 Jope, Mar 5, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2017
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Loading...