Zechariah - Christ centred prophecy

[Covenanter]

Christ is revealed in the OC Scriptures in types - examples & shadows.
An important principle in relating OC prophecy to NC fulfilment is to consider how what is recorded in the NC of Christ & the Gospel is the antetype of the OC.

 

[HankD]

Christ is revealed in the OC Scriptures in types - examples & shadows.
An important principle in relating OC prophecy to NC fulfilment is to consider how what is recorded in the NC of Christ & the Gospel is the antetype of the OC.

Indeed, but the problem with the indiscriminate allegory method which you use is:

Whatever literal text fits my view - USE IT.
Whatever literal text doesn't fit - ALLEGORIZE IT to make it fit.

I can thereby justify ANY biblical/theological genre with that strategy.

HankD

 

[Yeshua1]

Read Acts 2. Thousands of Jews " from every nation under heaven" repented and were baptised. Peter showed them the pierced Christ.
Eze. 36:24ff also prophecies Pentecost.
In Luke 24 Jesus teaches that he is the fulfilment of OC prophecy.[/QUOTE
The Bible exhorts us to eagerly llok towards the second coming of Christ, so why would that mean anything if already has happened? Or was the Bible JUST written for those in time of Jesus?

The Bible exhorts us to eagerly look towards the second coming of Christ, so why would that mean anything if already has happened? Or was the Bible JUST written for those in time of Jesus?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Read Acts 2. Thousands of Jews " from every nation under heaven" repented and were baptised. Peter showed them the pierced Christ.
Eze. 36:24ff also prophecies Pentecost.
In Luke 24 Jesus teaches that he is the fulfilment of OC prophecy.

What point are you making here?
Are you suggesting that these Jews are the ones attacking Jerusalem in Zech 14?

 

[Covenanter]

Indeed, but the problem with the indiscriminate allegory method which you use is:

Whatever literal text fits my view - USE IT.
Whatever literal text doesn't fit - ALLEGORIZE IT to make it fit.

I can thereby justify ANY biblical/theological genre with that strategy.

HankD

You've misunderstood.
Christ and the NC fulfil OC prophecy, so we should not look beyond the NC Scriptures to impose a theological genre/interpretation.
The overall OC looks forward to the Seed, Christ, blessing all nations - all goyim. The church, comprising all believers in the Lord Jesus Christ, IS the fulfilment of that promise.

 

[Covenanter]

What point are you making here?
Are you suggesting that these Jews are the ones attacking Jerusalem in Zech 14?

Not at all.
Those many thousands of believing Jews - the Church - comprise the Israel of OC prophecy.
They were the first citizens of the New, heavenly Jerusalem which was almost immediately persecuted by the old, carnal Jerusalem.

 

[HankD]

You've misunderstood.
Christ and the NC fulfill OC prophecy, so we should not look beyond the NC Scriptures to impose a theological genre/interpretation.
The overall OC looks forward to the Seed, Christ, blessing all nations - all goyim. The church, comprising all believers in the Lord Jesus Christ, IS the fulfillment of that promise.

Of course, sorry for coming on like gangbusters!

HankD

 

[Yeshua1]

You've misunderstood.
Christ and the NC fulfil OC prophecy, so we should not look beyond the NC Scriptures to impose a theological genre/interpretation.
The overall OC looks forward to the Seed, Christ, blessing all nations - all goyim. The church, comprising all believers in the Lord Jesus Christ, IS the fulfilment of that promise.

The Nt also looked a lot towards the still future Second Coming of Christ, as that is the hope of the church!

 

[Covenanter]

Zec. 1

After the initial summary of Israel's history of disobedience & restoration, Zechariah sees his first vision of 4 horsemen.

These are God's messengers watching the whole earth. They are concerned that the nations that were used to implement judgment on Israel are at peace & unconcerned about the fate of the people of God they hold captive.

God raises up carpenters - craftsmen - who will defy the nations that scattered Judah, Israel & Jerusalem & rebuild temple & city.

Ezra & Nehamiah provide the historical background to the prophecies of Haggai & Zechariah.

 

[Covenanter]

Zec. 2
Zechariah is given a vision of a glorious Jerusalem without walls. Quite different from the priority given by Nehemiah. [And by present day Israelis.]

This is the new Jerusalem, to be inhabited by redeemed nations as many nations become my people.

The Israelites in captivity are encouraged to return, to flee from the north.

We can see immediate encouragement for the struggling Jews as they sought to rebuild the city, and see beyond to a glorious Messianic future.

 

[Yeshua1]

Zec. 2
Zechariah is given a vision of a glorious Jerusalem without walls. Quite different from the priority given by Nehemiah. [And by present day Israelis.]

This is the new Jerusalem, to be inhabited by redeemed nations as many nations become my people.

The Israelites in captivity are encouraged to return, to flee from the north.

We can see immediate encouragement for the struggling Jews as they sought to rebuild the city, and see beyond to a glorious Messianic future.

New Jerusale will be here upon the earth in the far future, need to have the Millium firsdt, at time of the Second Coming, when all saint be resurrected!

 

[Covenanter]

Zec. 3 is a vision of the degraded High Priest - Joshua (same name as Jesus) a HP without a temple being being accused by Satan. He is cleansed & transformed into the true Great HP - God's servant, the Branch, Jesus Christ himself, who will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.
Zechariah looks forward to Calvary.

 

[Covenanter]

Zec. 3 is a vision of the degraded High Priest - Joshua (same name as Jesus) a HP without a temple being being accused by Satan. He is cleansed & transformed into the true Great HP - God's servant, the Branch, Jesus Christ himself, who will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.
Zechariah looks forward to Calvary.

How do we interpret:

Zec. 3:9 For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the Lord of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day. - KJV

For behold, upon the stone which I have set before Joshua, upon a single stone with seven facets, I will engrave its inscription, says the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the guilt of this land in a single day. - RSV​

?
I think "facets - of a gem-stone" is more likely when we consider the HP wore a diadem inscribed: "Holiness to the LORD."

 

[Covenanter]

How do we interpret:

Zec. 3:9 For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the Lord of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day. - KJV

For behold, upon the stone which I have set before Joshua, upon a single stone with seven facets, I will engrave its inscription, says the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the guilt of this land in a single day. - RSV​

?
I think "facets - of a gem-stone" is more likely when we consider the HP wore a diadem inscribed: "Holiness to the LORD."

We can look forward to:

Zec. 9:16 The Lord their God will save his people on that day as a shepherd saves his flock.
They will sparkle in his land like jewels in a crown.
And
Malachi 3:16 Then those who feared the Lord talked with each other, and the Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the Lord and honoured his name.
17 ‘On the day when I act,’ says the Lord Almighty, ‘they will be my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as a father has compassion and spares his son who serves him. 18 And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not.​

 

[Yeshua1]

We can look forward to:

Zec. 9:16 The Lord their God will save his people on that day as a shepherd saves his flock.
They will sparkle in his land like jewels in a crown.
And
Malachi 3:16 Then those who feared the Lord talked with each other, and the Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the Lord and honoured his name.
17 ‘On the day when I act,’ says the Lord Almighty, ‘they will be my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as a father has compassion and spares his son who serves him. 18 And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not.​

To national Israel...

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Not at all.
Those many thousands of believing Jews - the Church - comprise the Israel of OC prophecy.
They were the first citizens of the New, heavenly Jerusalem which was almost immediately persecuted by the old, carnal Jerusalem.

This is very ingenious, but it really is without merit unless you can show me somewhere else in Scripture where the Jews are referred to as 'The Nations.' If you can't, I'm afraid you are guilty of shoe-horning the text to fit your theory.

'The Nations' appears quite a few times in Scripture but always (as far as I can see) referring to the Gentile nations that surround Israel. Exodus 34:24; Deuteronomy 4:27; Revelation 20:8.

 

[Yeshua1]

This is very ingenious, but it really is without merit unless you can show me somewhere else in Scripture where the Jews are referred to as 'The Nations.' If you can't, I'm afraid you are guilty of shoe-horning the text to fit your theory.

'The Nations' appears quite a few times in Scripture but always (as far as I can see) referring to the Gentile nations that surround Israel. Exodus 34:24; Deuteronomy 4:27; Revelation 20:8.

You would be correct! his views and realized eschatology/prieterism seems to have to shoe horn a lot of stuff in to have it make sense!

 

[Covenanter]

Not at all.
Those many thousands of believing Jews - the Church - comprise the Israel of OC prophecy.
They were the first citizens of the New, heavenly Jerusalem which was almost immediately persecuted by the old, carnal Jerusalem.

This is very ingenious, but it really is without merit unless you can show me somewhere else in Scripture where the Jews are referred to as 'The Nations.' If you can't, I'm afraid you are guilty of shoe-horning the text to fit your theory.

'The Nations' appears quite a few times in Scripture but always (as far as I can see) referring to the Gentile nations that surround Israel. Exodus 34:24; Deuteronomy 4:27; Revelation 20:8.

I do not understand your question. Where have I referred to the Jews as "the nations" ?

I think you may be referring to:

Zec. 14:2 I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city.​

#8
Therefore it seems to me that he is saying that the Jews are the 'all nations' and they are attacking Jerusalem. If I'm wrong, no doubt he will explain.

It also seems to me that Preterists are obsessed with the Jews to an extent that would make a Dispensationalist blush

I think you are implying that I am saying that the unbelieving Jews persecuting the church are prophesied by Zec. 14:2 as included in all the nations. I am. The kingdom was taken from them. (Mat. 21:43) They were declared uncircumcised. (Acts 7:51) Jesus denied their claim to be Jews. (Rev. 2:9) See also Gal. 4:21-31

But I wanted first to set Zec. 14 in the whole context of the prophecy. There are 13 chapters before we get to 14. Just as there are 16 chapters in Romans, not just a few verses in chapter 11.

 

[Covenanter]

Please folk, enjoy & share the unfolding of the prophecy as we go through it. Why leap on the final chapter as if it stood alone?

 

[Yeshua1]

I do not understand your question. Where have I referred to the Jews as "the nations" ?

I think you may be referring to:

Zec. 14:2 I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city.​

I think you are implying that I am saying that the unbelieving Jews persecuting the church are prophesied by Zec. 14:2 as included in all the nations. I am. The kingdom was taken from them. (Mat. 21:43) They were declared uncircumcised. (Acts 7:51) Jesus denied their claim to be Jews. (Rev. 2:9) See also Gal. 4:21-31

But I wanted first to set Zec. 14 in the whole context of the prophecy. There are 13 chapters before we get to 14. Just as there are 16 chapters in Romans, not just a few verses in chapter 11.

Jesus JUST stated that that one temple was though. and God did not forever reject His people, as His promises are unconditional and everlasting!