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Strange fire Charleston, TN The Church of God

John of Japan

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They fit all of that though, as they see themselves as being only true church, see extra revelations, and that their leaders are like modern day prophets/Apostles, and deny the cross, teaching saved by own efforts!
But they still seem to lack certain characteristics of a cult: extreme top down control, different levels of membership, anti-social activity, etc.
 

Tim71

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I understand his Lordship salvation. I think a majority of Christianity today is not separated at all from the world. When you hear that 80% of Americans claim to be Christian. That statement goes against what Jesus said in

Matthew 7:21-23
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
 

John of Japan

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I understand his Lordship salvation. I think a majority of Christianity today is not separated at all from the world. When you hear that 80% of Americans claim to be Christian. That statement goes against what Jesus said in

Matthew 7:21-23
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Oh, I understand it, I just don't agree with it. The main problem with it is (not to derail your thread) that he tries to define the Gospel strictly from the teachings of Jesus, when God gave us the Apostle Paul to define it. And we have the sermons in the book of Acts to show us how to proclaim it--something MacArthur appears to forget completely. (Do you emphasize the resurrection in your Gospel?)
 

Tim71

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[QUOTE="John of Japan, post: 2297870, member (Do you emphasize the resurrection in your Gospel?)[/QUOTE].
Yes we emphasize the resurrection

Yes getting back to the subject of this thread. I just copied and pasted this from the original post (It was at this point that the true Church ceased to function but the organization continued. This event was foretold in Isaiah 54:7 and 2 Thessalonians 2:3.)

How would you correctly interpret these scriptures?
 
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John of Japan

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Tim71: Yes getting back to the subject of this thread. I just copied and pasted this from the original post (It was at this point that the true Church ceased to function but the organization continued. This event was foretold in Isaiah 54:7 and 2 Thessalonians 2:3.)

How would you correctly interpret these scriptures?

Isaiah 54:7 is very clearly a promise to the Jews. (1) Isaiah was to the Jews (1:1). (2) The context in Ch. 54 is to people who will "inherit the Gentiles" (v. 3) and whose Maker is the "Holy One of Israel" (v. 5). To make it apply to anyone other than Jews is to twist Scripture.

2 Thess. 2:3 is a little more difficult, but not that hard. It is an obvious reference to the Antichrist, who will cause the "Abomination of Desolation" (Matt. 24:15, Dan. 9:27). The context of both of these passages shows that this event will take place in a Jewish event--probably the desecration of the Jewish temple of the tribulation period, looking at 2 Thess. 2:4. It is taking the event totally out of its Jewish context to make it refer to the Azusa Street Revival and the work of Tomlinson.
 

Yeshua1

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I disagree strongly with his Lordship salvation, and I am bothered by his mistaken use of the Greek (which I teach), as in his insistence that pastor and teacher are the same office based on something called the Granville Sharp Rule, which he misuses. He's not a scholar, but kind of tries to come across as one.
he teaches very well on certain doctrines, but on the issue of Lordship salvation, he tends to skew almost towards a type of legalism!
 

Yeshua1

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Well I would argue you deny the gospel. God commands all to not sin, therefore wants all to be saved.

You frequently state things that have ZERO SCRIPTURE. For example God taking away man's free will and ability to do Good. Still waiting for you to provide scripture.


If your in a church that doesn't even claim to be the true church, well then your just claiming your in a false church.
Where did God state that he requires a state of sinless perfection before we can get saved though?
 

Yeshua1

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[QUOTE="John of Japan, post: 2297870, member (Do you emphasize the resurrection in your Gospel?)
.
Yes we emphasize the resurrection

Yes getting back to the subject of this thread. I just copied and pasted this from the original post (It was at this point that the true Church ceased to function but the organization continued. This event was foretold in Isaiah 54:7 and 2 Thessalonians 2:3.)

How would you correctly interpret these scriptures?[/QUOTE]
Must keep in mind that the Lord prophecy deals with Israel and the Church/Body of Christ mainly, as there were none that refer to various groups arising by name, so God did not foretell that their church would arise in end times, nor any other church for that matter!
 

Tim71

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.


How would you correctly interpret these scriptures?
Must keep in mind that the Lord prophecy deals with Israel and the Church/Body of Christ mainly, as there were none that refer to various groups arising by name, so God did not foretell that their church would arise in end times, nor any other church for that matter![/QUOTE]

I should be able with confidence....tell the members of the church of God that Isaiah chapter 54:6 and 7 have already been fulfilled in Isaiah timeline?
 

Yeshua1

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Must keep in mind that the Lord prophecy deals with Israel and the Church/Body of Christ mainly, as there were none that refer to various groups arising by name, so God did not foretell that their church would arise in end times, nor any other church for that matter!

I should be able with confidence....tell the members of the church of God that Isaiah chapter 54:6 and 7 have already been fulfilled in Isaiah timeline?[/QUOTE]
If you ask the pastor for what the Gospel is, what would he say?
 

Tim71

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I got this off their website. It disappoints me that 1Cor. 15:1-4 is not mentioned


There are alot of questions in this life which can lead to uncertainty. Do you long for purpose and significance in this challenging life? Do you feel as though you are all alone? Do you know Jesus as your personal Lord and Saviour? The Word of God has an answer for each of these questions, and God has a purpose for your life. The answer to all of these questions begins by recognizing our need for salvation which only comes through Jesus Christ.

The Word of God tells us that "...As by one man [Adam]sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"(Romans 5:12). The writer of this book also stated, "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"(Romans 3:23). When Adam sinned, man's peaceful relationship with God was disrupted and broken, and every soul that has been born into the world since then has needed to be reconciled to God. God, in His infinite love and mercy, provided a way – His only begotten Son – that all humanity might be restored.

God's Word reveals to us that, "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive" (1 Corinthians 15:22). Death comes to those who are guilty of sin; however, freedom from the judgment of death is available through Jesus Christ. "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour, Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth" (1 Timothy 2:3, 4). God is a merciful God who "...is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance" (2 Peter 3:9).

Receiving Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Saviour is not a difficult process and is the most important decision you will ever make in your life. "...The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel" (Mark 1:15). The first step to being restored to God is to believe the Gospel which you have heard. The Gospel is God's good news that He has given us a Saviour to save us from our sins. When we hear this good news, we must believe it and accept it as truth by faith. Perhaps you have heard the Gospel and are feeling a godly sorrow for having sinned against God. This is the Spirit of God convicting you of your sins and drawing you unto Him.

"For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of:..." (2 Corinthians 7:10). Conviction and godly sorrow will prompt you to repent of your sins and forsake your sins and sinful way of living. "The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken [convicted] heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite [repentant] spirit"(Psalms 34:18).

Once you have repented you can accept God's forgiveness. His Word assures us that once we believe and repent that we are "Therefore...justified [acquitted of our sins and guilt] by faith [simply believing], we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" (Romans 5:1). We stand before God forgiven and accepted just as if we had never sinned! God promises, "For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more" (Hebrews 8:12). Immediately upon being justified by faith, God begins His work of regeneration in the innermost parts of your heart. This is a renewing in which you pass from spiritual death unto spiritual life. You are born again into the Kingdom of God – a new creature in Christ. "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new" (2 Corinthians 5:17).

Now that you have accepted the salvation which God provided for you through Jesus Christ, the Word of God admonishes that you should profess Christ boldly."Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven"(Matthew 10:32, 33).

If you have accepted Christ and asked for His forgiveness, you have experienced the greatest joy that anyone can have in this life. No longer are you bound by sin, and you are free to begin your new life of living for God. If you have accepted Jesus Christ as your Saviour, we encourage you to share your testimony with us! You are beginning a new life with Christ, and we would like to help you as you begin that journey with Him.
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I got this off their website. It disappoints me that 1Cor. 15:1-4 is not mentioned


There are alot of questions in this life which can lead to uncertainty. Do you long for purpose and significance in this challenging life? Do you feel as though you are all alone? Do you know Jesus as your personal Lord and Saviour? The Word of God has an answer for each of these questions, and God has a purpose for your life. The answer to all of these questions begins by recognizing our need for salvation which only comes through Jesus Christ.

The Word of God tells us that "...As by one man [Adam]sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"(Romans 5:12). The writer of this book also stated, "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"(Romans 3:23). When Adam sinned, man's peaceful relationship with God was disrupted and broken, and every soul that has been born into the world since then has needed to be reconciled to God. God, in His infinite love and mercy, provided a way – His only begotten Son – that all humanity might be restored.

God's Word reveals to us that, "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive" (1 Corinthians 15:22). Death comes to those who are guilty of sin; however, freedom from the judgment of death is available through Jesus Christ. "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour, Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth" (1 Timothy 2:3, 4). God is a merciful God who "...is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance" (2 Peter 3:9).

Receiving Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Saviour is not a difficult process and is the most important decision you will ever make in your life. "...The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel" (Mark 1:15). The first step to being restored to God is to believe the Gospel which you have heard. The Gospel is God's good news that He has given us a Saviour to save us from our sins. When we hear this good news, we must believe it and accept it as truth by faith. Perhaps you have heard the Gospel and are feeling a godly sorrow for having sinned against God. This is the Spirit of God convicting you of your sins and drawing you unto Him.

"For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of:..." (2 Corinthians 7:10). Conviction and godly sorrow will prompt you to repent of your sins and forsake your sins and sinful way of living. "The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken [convicted] heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite [repentant] spirit"(Psalms 34:18).

Once you have repented you can accept God's forgiveness. His Word assures us that once we believe and repent that we are "Therefore...justified [acquitted of our sins and guilt] by faith [simply believing], we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" (Romans 5:1). We stand before God forgiven and accepted just as if we had never sinned! God promises, "For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more" (Hebrews 8:12). Immediately upon being justified by faith, God begins His work of regeneration in the innermost parts of your heart. This is a renewing in which you pass from spiritual death unto spiritual life. You are born again into the Kingdom of God – a new creature in Christ. "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new" (2 Corinthians 5:17).

Now that you have accepted the salvation which God provided for you through Jesus Christ, the Word of God admonishes that you should profess Christ boldly."Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven"(Matthew 10:32, 33).

If you have accepted Christ and asked for His forgiveness, you have experienced the greatest joy that anyone can have in this life. No longer are you bound by sin, and you are free to begin your new life of living for God. If you have accepted Jesus Christ as your Saviour, we encourage you to share your testimony with us! You are beginning a new life with Christ, and we would like to help you as you begin that journey with Him.
Where are their works and extra revelations mentioned then?
 

Tim71

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Where are their works and extra revelations mentioned then?

Here are their works


One of the most powerful and destructive heresies to penetrate the Christian community is the teaching that once people are saved they cannot lose their salvation. This is often referred to as "once in grace, always in grace" or "eternal security." This false teaching has likely gained prominence due to the fact that it has such appeal to the fleshly, carnal nature. According to this doctrine, once a person is saved, he cannot lose that salvation regardless of how far back into sin he strays. This supposedly produces that which is impossible, "the sinning Christian." To the man who wants to gratify the lust of the flesh while still maintaining the promise of eternal life, this doctrine is enticing.

Is there a Sinning Christian?

The Word of God simply does not support this teaching. It is the invention of men who are unwilling to accept God's requirements and provisions for sinless living. Scripture plainly tells that once a person receives salvation he ceases to practice sin. "Whosoever abideth in him [Jesus Christ] sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God" (1 John 3:6-9). The primary distinction between sinners and Christians is that sinners sin, and Christians do not sin. "In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother" (1 John 3:10).

Those who insist that they are under grace, and therefore will not be held accountable for sins committed after salvation, have surrendered to a strong deception. Paul gave stout warning against the spirit which teaches that people can be saved while continuing in sin: "...because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believe not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness" (2 Thessalonians 2:10-12). Those who think they can continue to have pleasure in unrighteousness and still make heaven their eternal home are in for a tragic awakening on judgment day! Paul admonished in his letter to Rome, "...Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?(Romans 6: 1, 2).

By no means does grace give us the privilege of continuing in sin as so many assert. In fact it is grace that delivers us from sin and teaches us to live holy. "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;" (Titus 2: 11, 12).

Do Christians have the Promise of Eternal Security?

Concerning eternal security, the Word of God plainly teaches eternal security for every believer who continues to love and obey the Lord; however, those who turn away from God will experience His disfavor and will be lost. "And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved" (Matthew 24:12, 13).

Some have falsely believed that once a person's name is entered into the Lamb's book of life, it cannot be taken off. God refutes this idead in Exodus 32:33, "And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book." This fact is confirmed in the New Testament in Revelation 3:4, 5, "Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."

The punishment for those who once knew God and chose to turn away seems from Him seems to be increased. "He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under food the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?" (Hebrews 10:28, 29). "For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them" (2 Peter 2:20, 21).

Can Eternal Life be Lost?

It is often reasoned that if a person can lose eternal life, then it was not truly eternal life in the first place. According to this philosophy, if it is eternal it cannot be cut off; however, they forget that eternal life is a gift from God that can be received, rejected, or returned. The Bible clearly reveals that there are some who once possessed eternal life and then lost it. Adam and Eve, for example, had eternal life, but God told them if they disobeyed they would die. Only by faith in His promise and obedience to His commands could they continue in everlasting life. When they sinned, they forfeited it. Likewise, the angels possessed eternal life; however, those that rebelled with Lucifer lost it.

Another example of one who lost eternal life was Judas. The Bible calls him a friend of Jesus in Psalm 41:9. In addition, it is recorded in Matthew 10:1-21 and Mark 6:7-13 that he was chosen to preach and was given the power to heal the sick and cast out devils. It is often argued that Judas was never saved, but this cannot be true. Did Christ choose a devil to be an apostle? Did Christ ordain a devil to preach the saving gospel? did the Lord give Satan power to cast out Satan? Jesus said in Matthew 12:26, Mark 3:23, and Luke 11:18 that Satan does not cast out Satan. Yet, Judas, as an apostle, cast out devils. Scripture shows that Judas betrayed the Lord, and in order to be guilty of betrayal one must have first been trustworthy; it also shows that Satan entered Judas after he ate the Passover meal with the Lord (John 13:27). The writer of Acts states, "...from which Judas by transgression fell..." (Acts 1:25). Judas could not fall unless he had once stood.

Conclusion

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin" (1 John 1:7). When a person ceases to walk in the light, the blood of Jesus ceases to cleanse. The word "if" is a mighty important word, and it carries eternal weight!

Satan is using "...all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved" (2 Thessalonians 2:10). Those who backslide will be just as lost in eternity as if they had never given their hearts to the Lord. Eternal life is God's promise, but that promise is to those who faithfully walk after receiving the salvation experience. The lie, "...ye shall not surely die..." (Gen 3:4) is still believed by men in the world today. The whole purpose of God's plan of redemption is to deliver men from sin and its curse, restoring mankind to the blessed state of holiness.
 

Tim71

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Here is the extra revelation just start watching the video at 1:07:10 to about 1:15:00. This is where they believe the Holy Spirit tells the Church who is going to be their next General Overseer. I'm going to warn you it's pretty spooky

 

Tim71

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I find the whole thing strange However at 1:10:00 when the second man stands up and starts speaking gibberish he is the one who does his own interpretation of the gibberish. My heart is saddened and grieved. Satan is devouring these people I can only pray that God will open their blinded eyes to the glorious gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ amen
 

Yeshua1

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This shows exactly what happens when a church and people no longer value the sure word of the lord in scriptures, and seek outside help!
 

Yeshua1

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They misunderstand the person and works of the Holy Spirit and the scriptures, so no wonder messed up!
 

Tim71

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Y
They misunderstand the person and works of the Holy Spirit and the scriptures, so no wonder messed up!

Yes I agree. Just wondering what would be some good ways at witnessing to these people. My heart grieves for them. I understand now why Jesus said you won't turn to me that ye may have life. It just a sad state of affairs
 
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Yeshua1

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Y


Yes I agree. Just wondering what would be some good ways at witnessing to these people. My heart grieves for them. I understand now why Jesus said you won't turn to me that ye may have life. It just a sad state of affairs
talk to them on an individual basis, telling them what God has done in your life and how you understanding the scriptures, and the Spirit Himself will have to take their blinders off!
 

Tim71

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I have finally been able to get in touch with someone at The Church of God (Charleston TN):) This is the question I asked

(Reference the original post to understand my questions)

_____________________________

I don't read anywhere in scriptures where the Church fell asleep from 325 A.D. to 1903A.D Let God be true and every man a liar Romans 3:5

If this happened then how do you explain this scripture?
Matthew 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. It looks like for over 1500 years the devil may of prevailed.
Some great men of God for example William Tynsdale lived during this time that you claim the Church was asleep. The Church of God wouldn't even have the Kings James Bible if it wasn't for God raising this man. I just don't understand why people have to lie about Gods word. We live in times where we need to be like the bereans We need to take what men say and compare it back to the Word of God.


I'm looking for some advice on this Baptist Board on how to answer his questions (below) in a manner where it will be gentle. I know this will be tough. I know only God will open his eyes to truth. I believe some people have the gift of explaining things without being harsh and I pray I get a good response
from the members of this Baptist Board


This is his response


Tim thank you for your question! I would like to say I think the world of the work William Tyndale did for our Christ. I believe your question should be looked at from both a historical and biblical point of view. First let me establish a few points (1) the reason we call this period of 1578 years the "dark ages" which lasted from 325 A.D. to 1903 A.D. is because our rule of faith The New Testament was put down and a creed of men took its place. (2) The Church of God is said to be the pillar and ground of the truth (1 Timothy 3:15) but starting in the fourth century our rule of faith was replaced and the Church is covered over by creeds and doctrines of men. The organization that ceased to be The Church of God stopped being that pillar and ground of the truth because the true faith was not being taught. (1) the new birth i.e. being born again was not being taught (2) the second definite work of grace subsequent to Justification namely, Entire Sanctification, stopped being taught (3) The Baptism with the Holy Ghost which is always subsequent to sanctification and always accompanied by the evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance stop being taught (4) Divine Healing: James 5:14 - 16 (5) Washing the Saints' feet: John 13:4-17 (6) Repentance: Acts 3:19 (7) Justification by Faith: Romans 5:1-9. All these truth stopped being taught.

So with all these doctrines not taught how do you say Tim that God's Church did not cease to function? I'm not saying that God's divine institution under the New Covenant died never to rise again but that it according to prophecy would arise again (Isaiah 54:5-17) (Isaiah 60:1-5). So I would like to ask you a question; were in history from 400 A.D. to 1500 A.D. is the pillar and ground of the truth? because there is not one group that taught all those points of biblical doctrine between those years. Now if people didn't teach sinners to repent and be born again how can you say that the Church did not cease to function? If justification by faith (Romans 5:1-2) is not taught how are people being born again? It is our belief that one is born again upon repentance into the kingdom of God. The Bible teaches that being born again and added to the Church are two different things. That is a sinner must be born again before he can be added to the Church.
 
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