One Must Hold to the Physical bodily resurrection to be saved?

[Darrell C]

The focus is whether one can be a Christian and not be born again or not. You say they can be, Scripture denies that.

I will CLARIFY what "I" have said;

No need, its perfectly clear already.

Happy said: ↑

Pfft! Nonsense. A person can be a Christian ~ and not be saved or born again.

A person FOLLOWING the teachings of Christ, HAVING FAITH, BELIEVE what they are LEARNING, ARE being ENLIGHTENED by the Word of God, can and do call themselves a Christian.

But a person teaching it is okay to murder children in the womb, that men can be Christians without being born again, and that Annihilation is valid doctrine...

...cannot call themselves Baptist.

A person FOLLOWING the teachings of Christ, HAVING FAITH, BELIEVE what they are LEARNING, ARE being ENLIGHTENED by the Word of God, AND "ACCEPT" Christ Jesus as their Lord and Savior, AND ACCEPT "their" Salvation from the Lord, can and do call themselves BORN AGAIN Christians.

Again, the false dichotomy.

You are essentially proposing the very error that Lordship Salvation addresses. What people think Lordship Salvation teaches.

As already mentioned, it is the "Super Christian" garbage that numerous denominations teach, and it is error.

IF YOU, want to EXCLUDE children, men, woman from your "EXCLUSIVE" TITLE of Christian, because they are FOLLOWING SCRIPTURE and FIRST LEARNING ABOUT GOD BEFORE they commit an oath to the Lord, that is YOUR BUSINESS. I don't.

If they are actually "following Scripture," then they are Christians.

You are basically saying that men become Christians by "committing an oath to the Lord," which is borderline works-based drivel. At best it is Free Will Drivel.

Salvation is a supernatural process that is wholly the work of Sovereign God.

AND FYI ~ such a person NOT SAVED, IS being enlightened, by the Spirit of God, during the time they are following what Scripture teaches, to FIRST LEARN ABOUT GOD, BEFORE submitting unto the Lord!

And I have been clear, the natural man is enlightened to the Gospel, but, he is not saved until he receives Christ, at which time...

...he is born again.

And then he/she is a Christian, and then they can follow Scripture and Christ.


Continued...

 

[Darrell C]

The same way I know what you think...they tell me, just as you have revealed your heart.

Funny - because you babble on about nonsense, liberalism, philosophies, etc., that has nothing to do with what is in my heart.

It is your heart that defends Abortion, Happy. It is your heart that rejects the Word of God and teaches...


Happy said: ↑


Pfft! Nonsense. A person can be a Christian ~ and not be saved or born again.


If that offends you it is not me you have the problem with...it is very much a heart issue and the problem needs to be remedied by God.

Let me ask you this, Happy, are you a "Christian that has not 'submitted,' and not born again?"

Can you at least answer that?


Continued...

 

[Darrell C]

Whereas I find most people do very little thinking, but instead have the "faith" they profess spoon fed to them by those in authority over them.

I've noticed. I say something, you disagree, then repeat what I said in your words and call me some ignorant name.

But what you have ignored is that I am addressing your error in totality, not just the deflection.

As I said, back-peddle all you want, then cry foul, that is nothing new in debate. But you are not going to get past what you yourself have said until you renounce that heresy.

OR you say something, I DID NOT SAY, and proceed as if YOUR WORDS are mine, when they ARE NOT.

I will allow the Public Record to speak for itself.

Its all right there, and cannot be denied.

That is why we have so many people involved in cults, and so many people who say they belong to one group or another yet their doctrine is totally incompatible with that group.

I've noticed. I can imagine YOUR CHURCH, a supposedly Christian Church, that DIVIDES with "name tags",

My fellowship, the one I now attend, is an Independent Fundamental Baptist Church. And like all churches, and in fact all of the population of the world, we use "name tags" to designate who it is we are speaking about.

We also use the "name tags" that are used in Scripture, such as heretic, liar, deceiver, false brethren, false teacher, damnable doctrine, demon doctrine...

...get the point?

"IF one has come to follow Christ's teachings, CAN NOT CALL themselves a CHRISTIAN, "until" they have "SUBMITTED" to the Lord.

Just stick to the focus, Happy, and provide a Scriptural support for this...


Happy said: ↑

Pfft! Nonsense. A person can be a Christian ~ and not be saved or born again.


That is the focus, and until you provide something more than your Liberal Philosophy, then we make no progress, and you make a Doctrinal Debate an issue about yourself, as you continue to do.


Continued...

 

[Happy]

Here is the Doctrine of Demons you propose and the course of the discussion:

Happy said: ↑
Pfft! Nonsense. A person can be a Christian ~ and not be saved or born again.
Darrell C said: ↑
No, actually, one is not a Christian until they are Regenerate, and this is a result of trusting on the Sacrifice of Christ, which...

So, according to you a person learning about Christ, having faith, believing, is not a Christian, and following a doctrine of Demons.

I disagree.

I guess all the children, women, men coming to your Church who are not saved, are being fed a Doctrine of Demons.




...not one disciple did until they were enlightened by the Comforter.
Happy said: ↑
You think a person in the process of LEARNING about Christ, is not follower of Christ's teachings?
Darrell C said: ↑
One cannot "learn of Christ" in their natural state. The only time this occurs is when one is under conviction of the Holy Ghost. Scripture makes that clear.
Happy said: ↑
False. Men LEARN of CHRIST in their "natural state". Men in their "natural state" SUBMIT unto Christ.
The "KNOWLEDGE" is in Scripture. The "UNDERSTANDING" of the knowledge is what is given a man, AFTER he submits. And even then, that man needs to SEEK that understanding.

So, according to you, men can not learn of Christ in their natural state, and to believe otherwise is a Doctrine of Demons.

I disagree.

Men learn about Jesus, learn about Christ, and become saved, in their natural state.

I understand the difference between a man calling himself a Christian, while he is learning, believing and having faith.....and a man calling himself a BORN AGAIN Christian, who has followed, learned, believing, having faith, and SUBMITS unto God and remains following, learning, having faith.

You think yourself exclusive, by your understanding of the term Christian.
However the world is not required to submit to your exclusive understanding.

Scripture itself reveals:
salvation was provided for ALL the world.
not all of the world will accept the salvation provided FOR THEM.
It is necessary to FIRST learn about something BEFORE making a election to pledge an oath to it.
Men learning ABOUT God, are being enlightened by the Holy Spirit /Word of God.
Men being enlightened, who stop being enlightened; scripture speaks of them losing faith.
Men being enlightened, and pledging an oath to trust what they learn, become recipients of the salvation,
provided to all the world.

 

[Darrell C]

Eweee, must be frustrating for you to sit in YOUR Church among such aliens who are there to follow and learn ABOUT Christ, BEFORE they submit.

More frustrating for me, rather than assuming that there might be people playing Church, is critiquing the sermons. lol

But you wouldn't understand that.

Like you: you say you are a baptist yet you teach doctrines held by cults and those derived from Jewish Tradition.

You make accusations,

Not accusations but what you have spoken in Public Forum.

You have proposed...

1. Annihilation;

2. Men do not become "alive" until they breathe air;

3. Men can be Christians and not born again;


Show me the Baptist Group that teaches any of these. We'll take it from there.

as if, that justifies YOUR CULT.

It is true, some people consider Independent Fundamental Baptists as a cult, lol.

And to make it worse, I am a Pre-Tribulational Rapturist.

You are more concerned with titles and name calling than the TRUTH!

I see nothing wrong with calling something what it is.

You seem to ignore "Saints" are not exclusive to the OT.

It is not an issue that has come up, so how is it that I do this?

Believing and Trusting the Word of God, is not a new phenomenon.

No, but, the revelation we have in the New Testament is not found in the Old Testament.

That is why Paul calls certain Doctrines mysteries.

Show me one person that was trusting in the Risen Savior prior to Pentecost.

And that is the problem you have, you are not understanding of a very clear command:


Hebrews 6
King James Version (KJV)

1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

The writer of Hebrews makes it clear that there are foundational principles, and that which is complete. The command is not to lay again that which is foundational.

But if you cannot even understand this...


John 3
King James Version (KJV)

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

...then there is no reason to get into a passage that even :Scholarly Theologians" butcher on a regular basis.

And we know you do not understand John 3 due to what you have spoken...


Happy said: ↑

Pfft! Nonsense. A person can be a Christian ~ and not be saved or born again.


Continued...

 

[Darrell C]

Believing and Trusting there is a Messiah, is not a new phenomenon.

But understanding Who Messiah is and what He came to do is.

That began at Pentecost.

Believing and Trusting the Word of God, has a NAME, and TITLE, and APPEARED to mankind IS a revelation that some accept and some do not.

Thought it was a bad thing to use name tags.

There is a word for people who rail against others for doing something...then do it themselves.

You would rather carry on and on about silly nonsense.

No, I would actually like you to provide a Scriptural presentation for your philosophy, and prove it is not either Liberal or Philosophy.

I would also like you to address the Scriptural presentations given you to show that it is.

Does your Pastor greet the people coming into YOUR Church and label them saved or unsaved so "your Christians" are not mingling and influenced by "your NON-Christians"?

No, he, like most preachers and Pastors, simply recognizes that among the wheat there are going to be tares, and addresses this issue from the pulpit.

I have asked you numerous times exactly what type of Baptist you are, and you will not even be honest about that.

Another deceitful tactic! Challenging HONESTY, has to do with challenging something that "IS" said.

How is the fact you are too afraid to respond to a simple question...deceitful?

If you are ashamed of the group you are actually a part of, perhaps you should consider finding a new one.

Yes you have asked. No I have NOT answered you. That is NOT being DISHONEST, it is ignoring your question!

You are being dishonest if you claim to be a Baptist that you might have access to a Baptist Only board and you are not a Baptist.

If the shoe fits...


Continued...

 

[Happy]

It is your heart that defends Abortion, Happy.

Why do you insist on making up such lies?

I have never said I support, or advocate or defend abortion.

I support, advocate and defend a person's right to make their OWN decisions and Be themselves responsible and accountable for their OWN actions.

I don't support, advocate and defend lying either....however I do support, advocate and defend your right to spew out lies, and you be the one accountable for YOUR OWN words.

 

[Darrell C]

The reason? Most likely because even if you do attend a Baptist Church, you know your doctrine is incompatible with what that group teaches.

The reason? You do not know. However per your M/O, in much of what you say, you make "guesses", and carry on "as if" it is a fact.

Its not really a guess to speculate that someone who holds to doctrine contrary to typical Baptist Doctrine is not really a Baptist, Happy.

It is true there are Charismatic groups that take up the title Baptist in their name, but that is usually a slam on Baptists itself. For example "Bible Believing Baptist Church."

Just about every fellowship I have ever been a member of has always erroneously taught Hebrews 10:25 out of context, and that it is speaking about going to Church. In the fellowship I am a member in now it is often said, "If you go to Church on Sunday, you love the church, if you go on Sunday night, you love the Pastor, and if you go on Wednesday...you love the Lord."

It is a typical Pulpit Bred mentality that derives from both the teaching of most churches as well as the perception of the average pew warmer, lol.

Nothing Biblical about it at all.

The idea that if one regularly attends "church" they must be saved is a religious concept which can be found in just about every denomination you can think of.

Thanks for sharing the layman's understanding of the mission statement of the Churches you have held membership in....

It's just pointing out something that most people who have attended Christian Fellowships have witnessed.

"Faithful" Church Attendance equates to validation of Salvation in Christ, when that is a poor means by which we examine the genuine quality of our salvation.

I can only wonder, why you committed yourself to the membership, when you now announce your disagreement with what they teach.

Because there is no group that teaches exactly what I believe, but, Independent Baptist Churches come closest.

I am actually at this point looking for a new fellowship closer to home. Where I have a membership now is further away than I would prefer to go, but I have stayed there because at one time quite a few of my Family was going there, and I did not want to influence their decision to go there. Now, the kids (my nephew and nieces) have grown up and either go somewhere else or have stopped going, and my Dad and Brother are no longer going there, so, I have no responsibility or fear I might impact their decisions, so we (my wife and I) have been visiting other fellowships.

But I do not expect to find one that teaches what I believe. Most people here are an example of the Doctrinal Differences I have with most, the primary issue being that I believe men were not born again before Pentecost, whereas most think they were, and confuse being "saved" from an eternal perspective with being born again.

As far as committing myself to a membership anywhere, i view it as important that we are members of a local Body, but do not view that as contributing to our salvation apart from its impact on progressive sanctification, which is the very point I referred to.

Why do you think I address your posts?

Why? Because you like to tell people what they think.

That is actually true in part, because sometimes people get caught up in heresy and do not understand the implication of that heresy.

For example, you think Salvation in Christ is something a natural man can seek after, which is why you believe men can be Christians without being born again.

You are in error.


Continued...

 

[Darrell C]

And if what they think is similar to your thinking, they should be expressing their thoughts, in YOUR words. And because you like to LABEL people according to what YOU determine, whether or not "they themselves" have announced such a LABEL for themselves.

The "labels" I use designate what I see, that is true, and if you want to dispute my view that you are engaging in Liberal Philosophy, then you had better start bringing a Scriptural support for your heresy.

I certainly don't want people to come to this forum, read the heresy and Liberal Philosophy you endorse...

And why don't you make a plain tidy list of my supposed "heresy" and supposed "Liberal Philosophy" that I "supposedly" endorse?

We can start with this one:

You have proposed...

1. Annihilation;

2. Men do not become "alive" until they breathe air;

3. Men can be Christians and not born again;

...and think that is representative of what Baptists teach and believe.

No need to give a list regarding that....you already have...

Actually I have not, that is the point.

The points I have taken issue with have no relation to Baptist Doctrine.

The issues I have with Baptist Doctrine I disagree with I address with those Baptists who hold to them.

Just about every fellowship I have ever been a member of has always erroneously taught Hebrews 10:25 out of context, and that it is speaking about going to Church. In the fellowship I am a member in now it is often said, "If you go to Church on Sunday, you love the church, if you go on Sunday night, you love the Pastor, and if you go on Wednesday...you love the Lord."

It is a typical Pulpit Bred mentality that derives from both the teaching of most churches as well as the perception of the average pew warmer, lol.


There is already enough error to be had without people thinking that Abortion and Annihilation are acceptable doctrinal positions.

Add that to your list of heresy and Liberal philosophy charges , and I'll address your false claims then.

You have shown all you are interested in doing is arguing.

And besides, they are on the list.

And the more you talk the greater the risk that the list will grow, just as it has in this thread to include your belief that men can be Christians and not saved or born again.

We will see how the thread in Politics adds to the list.

In this thread it grows worse because now you are speaking about Salvation in Christ and presenting the very position that one can be saved...and not born again.

Add that to your list of heresy and Liberal philosophy charges, and I'll address your false claims then.

I truly wish you would.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

You need to understand that I am looking at this from a perspective that takes everything you have said into consideration. The idea that men can be saved without being born again is absurd.

And that IDEA is yours, not mine.
And those WORDS are yours, not mine.

So why do you keep making absurd statements, and dumping them ON ME?

I never said those things.

Happy said: ↑


Pfft! Nonsense. A person can be a Christian ~ and not be saved or born again.


Then you must admit to the fact that when I pointed out that you teach a false dichotomy I was correct.

Only Christians are saved.

Good grief - HOW MANY TIMES do you require an explanation?
Maybe the toddler version will sink in...

Here is Jesus' BODY -
Jesus' BODY was prepared of God -
Jesus' BODY was sent to earth for men to SEE Him example How to become acceptable unto God.
Jesus' HOLY BODY was given unto DEATH, so that "ALL" of mankind could RECEIVE Salvation.
By Jesus' DEAD HOLY BODY, "ALL" of mankind has opportunity to RECEIVE Salvation provided for them.

SALVATION provided for "ALL" of mankind.

A piece of pie FOR YOU on the counter, mommy set there FOR YOU.
A dollar FOR YOU left on the counter, mommy set there FOR YOU to buy your school lunch.

If you do not TAKE 'your pie".....If you do not TAKE "your money".....you LOSE having "YOUR PIE"...
you LOSE having "your money".

If you do not TAKE "your salvation"....you Lose having your Salvation.

IF you do TAKE your pie, your money, your Salvation - YOU received it, claimed it... IT IS YOURS to keep! No one can TAKE AWAY YOUR SALVATION.

IF you received it, it is permanently yours forever. A gift from God.

I've already addressed this issue.

You are not going to justify your position:

Happy said: ↑

Pfft! Nonsense. A person can be a Christian ~ and not be saved or born again.



Darrell C said: ↑
No, actually, one is not a Christian until they are Regenerate, and this is a result of trusting on the Sacrifice of Christ, which...

...not one disciple did until they were enlightened by the Comforter.


Happy said: ↑
You think a person in the process of LEARNING about Christ, is not follower of Christ's teachings?


Darrell C said: ↑
One cannot "learn of Christ" in their natural state. The only time this occurs is when one is under conviction of the Holy Ghost. Scripture makes that clear.


Happy said: ↑

False. Men LEARN of CHRIST in their "natural state". Men in their "natural state" SUBMIT unto Christ.
The "KNOWLEDGE" is in Scripture. The "UNDERSTANDING" of the knowledge is what is given a man, AFTER he submits. And even then, that man needs to SEEK that understanding.


You teach one is a Christian without being regenerate.

Speaking in half truths leads to confusion.

Jesus provided salvation for ALL. It is THEIRS to take. If they do not receive it they lose it. If they receive it, it is theirs forever.

Men do not "take" salvation.

They do not "keep" salvation.

And they are not saved until they are born again believers. Then...they are Christians.

No. I speak of things you can not comprehend, so you deflect to the limit of your understanding, and call me names because of the lack of your own comprehension.

If you say so.

You state a plain truth, with your mucked up unnecessary words.
legitimate, actually, < irrelevant.

WE ARE SAVED, when we submit to the Lord from the truth in our hearts. PERIOD.

Philosophical? "attaining on Salvation in Christ to the world" ?

Who said, "attains" ? I didn't. You did. And then call it philosophical. That's on you, not me.

The world "in general"? Well speaking from Scripture Jesus precisely (not generally) gave HIS FLESH, for the LIFE "of the world". Not a few, not only some, not only a certain race, not only Christians...but ALL of the world.

SALVATION for ALL is "provided", just as I said before.

And just as I clearly said before....ANY person WHO DOES NOT RECEIVE, TAKE, CLAIM the salvation that was provided FOR THEM, they lose it. They die IN THEIR SINS. THEY ARE NOT FORGIVEN. THEY remain separated from GOD.

Okay, now we are getting somewhere:

WE ARE SAVED, when we submit to the Lord from the truth in our hearts. PERIOD.

Every person hearing, reading, listening to sermons, being enlightened to the truth are "learning About" Christ and are "following" the Gospel of Christ Jesus, and certainly can call themselves a Christian, as would anyone who observed them exiting a Christian Church meeting call them a Christian.

( They are talked about repeatedly in Scripture, as the ones WHO must be cautious because of their weakness of temptations to "falling away", because they have not yet submitted in faithfulness to the Lord and been forgiven, had their soul restored or their spirit quickened).

This does not describe a Christian. Any more than we would call tares wheat.

That is the false dichotomy you present:

Christian is mans way to express a person having faith in Christ.
Born Again Christian is mans way to express a person having faith and submitted to Christ.

The Bible does not teach two types of Christian.

And so you disagree, so what.

How does that work in your world? Christian, saved and born again.....and then change their mind, they are no longer a Christian?.....AND? Are they then....UNSAVED and UNBORN AGAIN?

Great logic.

I argue that only those who are born again are Christians, and I get this.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Post # 139

Representative of all your posts.




God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

So, according to you a person learning about Christ, having faith, believing, is not a Christian, and following a doctrine of Demons.

This is like saying "So according to you, a man obeying the Law, murdering children, reading his Bible...cannot be saved."

Only Christians have faith in the Christ they learn about.

I disagree.

I know, why do you think I have taken all this time to speak with you?

I guess all the children, women, men coming to your Church who are not saved, are being fed a Doctrine of Demons.

Some them, presumably.

Demon Doctrine has a way of keeping people from acknowledging the truth.

...not one disciple did until they were enlightened by the Comforter.
Happy said: ↑
You think a person in the process of LEARNING about Christ, is not follower of Christ's teachings?
Darrell C said: ↑
One cannot "learn of Christ" in their natural state. The only time this occurs is when one is under conviction of the Holy Ghost. Scripture makes that clear.
Happy said: ↑
False. Men LEARN of CHRIST in their "natural state". Men in their "natural state" SUBMIT unto Christ.
The "KNOWLEDGE" is in Scripture. The "UNDERSTANDING" of the knowledge is what is given a man, AFTER he submits. And even then, that man needs to SEEK that understanding.

So, according to you, men can not learn of Christ in their natural state, and to believe otherwise is a Doctrine of Demons.

I have been clear, the only way for natural man to understand the spiritual things of God, the Gospel of Jesus Christ topping that particular list...

...is during the convicting ministry of the Comforter.

So please do not misrepresent what has been told you numerous times.

I disagree.

I know, why do you think I have taken all this time to speak with you? lol

Men learn about Jesus, learn about Christ, and become saved, in their natural state.

We are making progress.

I understand the difference between a man calling himself a Christian, while he is learning, believing and having faith.....and a man calling himself a BORN AGAIN Christian, who has followed, learned, believing, having faith, and SUBMITS unto God and remains following, learning, having faith.

It is your "understanding" being addressed.

Just because someone calls themselves a Christian does not mean they are.

Only those who are born again are Christians.

You think yourself exclusive, by your understanding of the term Christian.
However the world is not required to submit to your exclusive understanding.

I am not promoting myself, or my doctrine, I am simply stating what is Basic Bible Doctrine.

You teach heresy by saying men can be Christians without being born again.



Titus 3:4-5
King James Version (KJV)

4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;


1 Peter 1
King James Version (KJV)

1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.


Take note on Who it is that does the "keeping" of our salvation, Happy.

Scripture itself reveals:
salvation was provided for ALL the world.

No, Happy, "salvation" was not provided to the whole world, the opportunity for salvation was provided. Its a significant distinction which has to be made based on the statements you have made.

not all of the world will accept the salvation provided FOR THEM.

Not all the world will receive the Provision of Salvation that God has provided.

It is necessary to FIRST learn about something BEFORE making a election to pledge an oath to it.

Could you show me where we "make an election to pledge an oath" in Scripture?

Men learning ABOUT God, are being enlightened by the Holy Spirit /Word of God.

Not all of them.

Only those that God enlightens. That pertains to the saved and the lost, or, Christians and non-Christians, the only two types of people in the world.

Men being enlightened, who stop being enlightened; scripture speaks of them losing faith.

You can't lose that which you don't have.

That they reject the Way of Righteousness, that is, the Truth God enlightens their darkened minds to...shows they did not have faith.

Saving faith, general faith, and no faith are distinctive issues in Scripture.

Men being enlightened, and pledging an oath to trust what they learn, become recipients of the salvation,
provided to all the world.

Great.

Now all you need is Scripture that teaches that, and you will support your statement.


God bless.

 

[Happy]

More frustrating for me, rather than assuming that there might be people playing Church, is critiquing the sermons. lol
But you wouldn't understand that.

You are not qualified to know what I understand.

Not accusations but what you have spoken in Public Forum.

You have proposed...

1. Annihilation;

2. Men do not become "alive" until they breathe air;

3. Men can be Christians and not born again;

I have never said anything about annihilation.
I have never said men do not become alive until they breathe air.
I have said men learning about God, having faith, can call themselves Christians without your permission.

Show me the Baptist Group that teaches any of these. We'll take it from there.

uh no. I am not going to search Baptist groups to see who agrees with YOUR WORDS.

It is true, some people consider Independent Fundamental Baptists as a cult, lol.

And to make it worse, I am a Pre-Tribulational Rapturist.

I see nothing wrong with calling something what it is.

I see something wrong with calling something what it isn't

No, but, the revelation we have in the New Testament is not found in the Old Testament.

The Messiah -
His Life -
His Rejection -
His Death -
His Rising up -

All foretold in the OT ~

Show me one person that was trusting in the Risen Savior prior to Pentecost.

It is not about who believes what, but rather what is in Scripture.

And that is the problem you have, you are not understanding of a very clear command:

I know what applies to me. And you are not qualified to determine what applies to me.

The writer of Hebrews makes it clear that there are foundational principles, and that which is complete. The command is not to lay again that which is foundational.

But if you cannot even understand this...

You pretending you know my understanding from a few snippets in this forum is laughable.

John 3
King James Version (KJV)

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

...then there is no reason to get into a passage that even :Scholarly Theologians" butcher on a regular basis.

And we know you do not understand John 3 due to what you have spoken...

Happy said: ↑

Pfft! Nonsense. A person can be a Christian ~ and not be saved or born again.

Correct.
A man can have faith believing in Christ, call himself a Christian and not be saved or born again.

Did that man fulfill John 3: 3 or John 3; 5 ? No. And I never said he did.
Is that man saved? No. And I never said he was.
Is that man born again? No. And I never said he was.

Is that man following? In faith? Believing what he is learning? Yes.
Is that man following Christ's teachings? Yes.

Can he call himself a Christian? Sure.

However, IF such a man were to claim he was a Christian, I'm sure, as you have proved, you would be hot on his heels, preaching he believes a Doctrine of Demons.

 

[Darrell C]

Why do you insist on making up such lies?

I have never said I support, or advocate or defend abortion.

When you refuse to acknowledge what GOd has spoken in His Word about the sanctity of Life of the unborn child, and refuse to even admit, as Scripture makes clear, that the child in the womb even has life, then yes...

...you support the murder of unborn children.

And that is a philosophy of Liberals.

I support, advocate and defend a person's right to make their OWN decisions and Be themselves responsible and accountable for their OWN actions.

Thank you for admitting your Liberal and ungodly worldview.

You support the murder of the unborn child.

No-one has a right to take the life of another human being (earthlings in your terminology).

I don't support, advocate and defend lying either

That does not seem to be the case.

but you can settle my speculation by telling me exactly what kind of Baptist you are, or at least, what Baptist group you affiliate with.

....however I do support, advocate and defend your right to spew out lies, and you be the one accountable for YOUR OWN words.

I can use all the support I can get, so thanks!




God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

You are not qualified to know what I understand.

Sure I am.

I have never said anything about annihilation.

That is one of your problems...you do not even understand what you speak about.

Does the word "kaput" ring any bells?

I have never said men do not become alive until they breathe air.

Okay, Happy.

So now you will admit that children in the womb are individuals who have a life of their own, a body and a spirit?

We both know you won't.

I can't keep running in circles with you. Particularly when I am the only doing any work in this discussion.

I have said men learning about God, having faith, can call themselves Christians without your permission.

This is true, but, contrary to your philosophy...

...that doesn't make them Christians.

You promote an argument that Atheists present, which they use to soothe their consciences.

uh no. I am not going to search Baptist groups to see who agrees with YOUR WORDS.

You wouldn't find them anyway.

I see something wrong with calling something what it isn't

No you don't.

You have no problem calling people who are not Christians...Christians.

The Messiah -
His Life -
His Rejection -
His Death -
His Rising up -

All foretold in the OT ~

Shall we revisit the difference between knowledge and understanding?

Had you responded to the many passages already provided to you in these discussions that show that the disciples did not understand, and did not even believe the Lord had risen from the dead...

...you wouldn't be continuing to offer irrelevant arguments.

It is not about who believes what, but rather what is in Scripture.

And being a Christian very much is a matter of what is believed.

I know what applies to me. And you are not qualified to determine what applies to me.

Actually you don't. You don't seem to know that defending the murder of Children in the womb, and calling things "what they aren't" and Liberal Philosophy applies to you. Its all right there in the Public Record.

You pretending you know my understanding from a few snippets in this forum is laughable.

A few snippets?

There's pages and pages...

Happy said: ↑

Pfft! Nonsense. A person can be a Christian ~ and not be saved or born again.

Correct.
A man can have faith believing in Christ, call himself a Christian and not be saved or born again.

Did that man fulfill John 3: 3 or John 3; 5 ? No. And I never said he did.
Is that man saved? No. And I never said he was.
Is that man born again? No. And I never said he was.

Is that man following? In faith? Believing what he is learning? Yes.
Is that man following Christ's teachings? Yes.

Can he call himself a Christian? Sure.

However, IF such a man were to claim he was a Christian, I'm sure, as you have proved, you would be hot on his heels, preaching he believes a Doctrine of Demons.

There is only so much time I will devote to trying to help someone, Happy, and you have just about exhausted the time I will give you.

But thanks for once again reiterating the very heresy that our discussion in this particular thread began with:

Happy said: ↑

Pfft! Nonsense. A person can be a Christian ~ and not be saved or born again.

Correct.
A man can have faith believing in Christ, call himself a Christian and not be saved or born again.

I might, for your sake, suggest you start a thread and inquire of your peers if your doctrine is correct. Apparently what Scripture has to say means nothing to you, so that leaves justifying your Liberal Philosophy by seeking to get others to agree that you are correct.

Muslims have faith. Buddhists have faith. Mormons have faith.

But they are not Christians, because their doctrine differs from the Word of God which defines how one becomes a Christian, and what a Christian is.

Only those who are born again are Christians.


God bless.

 

[Happy]

Again, no, Happy...men cannot lose their salvation.

Half truth -

Salvation is provided for all. If you don't receive it WHILE bodily alive, you lose it, and bodily die in your sins.

If you receive your Salvation WHILE bodily alive, you can never lose the Salvation you received.

But if you prefer to teach half truths - carry on.

 

[Happy]

When you refuse to acknowledge what GOd has spoken in His Word about the sanctity of Life of the unborn child, and refuse to even admit, as Scripture makes clear, that the child in the womb even has life, then yes...

...you support the murder of unborn children.

And that is a philosophy of Liberals.




Thank you for admitting your Liberal and ungodly worldview.

You support the murder of the unborn child.

No-one has a right to take the life of another human being (earthlings in your terminology).




That does not seem to be the case.

but you can settle my speculation by telling me exactly what kind of Baptist you are, or at least, what Baptist group you affiliate with.




I can use all the support I can get, so thanks!




God bless.

 

[Happy]

And by the way, I have no qualms calling someone who proposes Liberal doctrine and tries to deny Scripture rejects such positions a Liberal.

You obviously have no qualms about falsely testifying against other.

You should get used to it if you are going to hang around.

Thanks for the warning that this forum promotes false testimonies of its members.

I know your emotion will not allow you to see it, Happy, but I am trying to help you.

That is very liberal of you to push your unsolicited help on me. Apparently you do not understand, I neither asked you to help me, nor do I agree with your philosophy, false accusations, false testimonies or speaking for me.

How dare you call me a Charismatic!

I didn't. How dare you make a false claim?

Its on the cover, isn't it?

So. It is also, as I mentioned, and you said it wasn't, but is written no less than 5 times on the pages.

But the problem, Happy, is you think there are multiple "understandings that conflict, not just with themselves, but with what is actually taught in Scripture...

...and that this is acceptable.

Another one of your lies. I have not said such an ignorant thing.

You do not think God can minister to the hearts of 5-10 year olds, and save them at an early Age?

Did I say that? uh no I didn't.

Once again, your philosophy conflicts with what Scripture actually teaches.

Once again, YOU speak YOUR WORDS, then pretend they are my words, (when they are not) then lecture me about how the words you spoke, your philosophy, conflicts with Scripture.

Stop trying to speak for me. Even you agree your speech conflicts with Scripture. So stop trying to dump your nonsense on me.

You teach that men can be Christians without being born again.

Yep, anyone can call themselves whatever they want. And if a man following the teachings of Christ wants to call himself a Christian, so what?

Doctrine of demons, a damnable heresy, and one that conflicts with our mandate to see men saved, not placate their fears that their trip to Hell not conflict with their conscience.

LOL ~ I said nothing whatsoever to not become saved. However you can not acknowledge even Scripture teaches to LEARN before you commit. And Be SURE before you commit. And apparently you do not think one LEARNING and following in faith the teachings of Christ is someone worthy to call themselves a Christian.

So, what!

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Six Hour Warning

This thread will be closed sometime after 10:30 PM Pacific.

 

[Happy]

Sure I am.

In your imagination.

That is one of your problems...you do not even understand what you speak about.

Sure I do. I choose my words, and reject you speaking for me.

Does the word "kaput" ring any bells?

Yes. It is a reference to the destruction of a mans body and a mans soul. Specifically a man whose spirit was never born again, thus his spirit is not an issue.

Matt.10

1. [28] And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

So now you will admit that children in the womb are individuals who have a life of their own, a body and a spirit?

I will admit NOTHING with YOUR WORDS. I have spoken for myself. If you do not believe it, or disagree with it, it really does not matter to me.

We both know you won't.

Correct. I have been very clear, repeatedly. I speak for myself.

I can't keep running in circles with you. Particularly when I am the only doing any work in this discussion.

Hope you don't break your arm patting yourself on the back. However I must say I am glad to see this thread of nonsense closing soon.

You promote an argument that Atheists present, which they use to soothe their consciences.

You're apparently the expert on Atheists and their conscience ~ I will presume personal experience.

You have no problem calling people who are not Christians...Christians.

I have no problem calling people what they call themselves.

And BTW - when a Christian, loses faith, and no longer claims to be a Christian....do you then claim he is "UNSAVED" and "UNBORN AGAIN" ?