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Volition

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by revmwc, Apr 25, 2017.

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  1. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Why did he think he was doing the Lord's will?
     
    #21 JonShaff, Apr 27, 2017
  2. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Also, why did Paul say he did it "Ignorantly in unbelief"
     
    #22 JonShaff, Apr 27, 2017
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Yes, as it refers to God being active and determining the end results, not just being passive and waiting to see what we do!
     
    #23 Yeshua1, Apr 27, 2017
  4. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    So now you don't think the will of the lost is free? You admit it is bondage to the law of sin and death?
     
    #24 TCassidy, Apr 27, 2017
  5. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    I believe they are lost because they are born without Christ. All mankind is born with an Old Sin Nature once we become accountable for our sinfulness we must believe on Christ for salvation. That old nature to sin dominates the unbeliever who is totally depraved. The old nature remains in us after salvation but no longer has dominion in our lives, we still are tempted to sin by that old nature after salvation. Christ has paid for our sin but we need to admit we are sinners in need of Him as our savior and the Holy Spirit draws through conviction all who hear the gospel.
     
    #25 revmwc, Apr 27, 2017
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  6. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Was that a "yes" or a "no?" Is the unsaved sinner's will free from the law of sin and death or not?
     
    #26 TCassidy, Apr 27, 2017
  7. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    Don't understand what you mean by this. Their will is free to believe or reject Christ as was yours and mine. All unbelievers are born under the curse of sin and are born Spiritually dead in trespasses and sins. In that state as Christ stated they are condemned. The baby and those who don't have sufficient mental capacity are not accountable for sin, when they become accountable that is know right from wrong and can realize themselves sinners they are in a state of innocence as was Adam and Eve till the Fall.
     
    #27 revmwc, Apr 27, 2017
  8. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    I mean just what the apostle Paul meant by it.

    Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

    So Paul was wrong?

    Of course. So how does a dead person do something to be saved? "Believe" is a verb. Something you do. "Exercise" faith is a verb, something you do. How does a dead person "do" something?

    1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man (spiritually dead, as you correctly said, above) receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

    Not only can't he do something, he can't even know what to do.

    Salvation is by the Grace of Almighty God, by the Sacrifice of Christ for us, not by anything we do.
     
    #28 TCassidy, Apr 27, 2017
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  9. Calv1

    Calv1 Active Member

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    False, try again. "Knew" never means "Knowledge" in scripture, it's a bad translation into English, "Adam KNEW Eve" and they conceived. God KNOWS EVERYTHING, CANNOT LEARN ANYTHING, it means a loving Relationship before we were born
     
    #29 Calv1, Apr 27, 2017
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  10. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Why do Muslims think they are doing God's will? Why do Mormons think they are doing God's will? Etc...
    People who think they can work their way into God's grace will do many things that they think are God’s will, but are far from pleasing to God.
     
    #30 MennoSota, Apr 27, 2017
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  11. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Dead men are ignorant.
     
    #31 MennoSota, Apr 27, 2017
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  12. JonShaff

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    What does that even mean!? LOL!!!!!!!!

    Dead men are ignorant? If one is dead they cannot be ignorant or cognizant! What on earth are you talking about?
     
    #32 JonShaff, Apr 27, 2017
  13. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    If you don't understand what it means, it says more about you than it does about me.
     
    #33 MennoSota, Apr 27, 2017
  14. JonShaff

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    No, sir. It does not. Quit using ridiculous phrases like "Dead men cannot..." and just say what the Bible says.
     
    #34 JonShaff, Apr 27, 2017
  15. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    "You were dead in your trespasses and sins."
     
    #35 MennoSota, Apr 27, 2017
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  16. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Oh so what you are saying is that Unbelievers cannot comprehend murdering people is wrong. Got it.
     
    #36 JonShaff, Apr 27, 2017
  17. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Nope, you don't "got it." Care to try again or do you want to admit you're being obtuse?
     
    #37 MennoSota, Apr 27, 2017
  18. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Care to explain what you mean? You are the one using arbitrary statements like "dead people are ignorant"
     
    #38 JonShaff, Apr 27, 2017
  19. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    It's not arbitrary. If you don't grasp my reference, you don't grasp it. I'm sure others here understand full well.
     
    #39 MennoSota, Apr 27, 2017
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  20. TCassidy

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    Do you really believe that murdering people is a spiritual action? The lost are spiritually dead. Remember?
     
    #40 TCassidy, Apr 27, 2017
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