Featured God Does Not Will Any To Be Lost, Some Men Do!

"The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance"

Instead of "ὑμᾶς" (you), some versions have "ἡμᾶς" (us). The former reading is found in the best textual support. The difference is important, as the latter can be taken to refer to believers only, where Peter includes himself in the "ἡμᾶς".

Either way, it could not refer to believers, or as some would argue, the "elect", as this would make nonsense of the verse. If the "elect" have been "predestined" to their salvation "before the foundation of the world", then it is pointless for Peter to write, that God does not "desire any to perish", as if He would, or could, seeing that they are already "elected" to salvation. This line of reasoning is moot.

This verse is very much like Romans 9:22, "What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?", which speaks of the unbeliever. If, as some suggest that God "predestines" some to eternal damnation in hell, then why would He "endure with much patience" with these? "κατηρτισμένα" (prepared), the Greek does not tell us who does the "preparing" here, God, or the "vessel of wrath". The language used shows that it is not God, as He bears with these, for the purpose of them being saved.

This can be seen in 2 Peter 3:9, and elsewhere, because "He is not willing that ANY should be lost". This is also clearly seen from Ezekiel 18:23, "Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked,” declares the Lord God, rather than that he should turn from his ways and live?", and 32, "For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies,” declares the Lord God. “Therefore, repent and live.”. This indeed is the very heart of the God of the Holy Bible, Who demonstrated His immense love for the whole of mankind, when we read, "God SO LOVES the HUMAN RACE, that He sent His one and only Son, that ANYONE who believes in Him, shall not be lost, but have eternal life" (John 3:16).

 

God in His Sovereignty, chose to create man with a "free-will" to chose. Otherwise where the Bible says "choose this day whom you will serve", is pointless, as man does not have this capacity, according to some?

 

Thanks, can you please explain what the passages from Ezekiel teach?

 

So, you mean that when unsaved sinners commit any acts of sin, like rape, murder, theft, etc, they don't any any choice in doing this? Are these same sinners doomed to eternal damnation because God has sent them directly to hell in predestination? Why would Jesus Himself tell sinners, that "unless they repent, they will perish"? (Luke 13:1-5), words that cannot have been spoken to any of the "elect", as they cannot perish, unless you charge Jesus of making empty threats? When you say "enslaved" to sin, you could also include many "believers" who live worse lives than the unsaved! Look at the "saints" in the Church at Corinth, where they committed heinous sins AFTER they were saved. If, as you say there is no free will, then God made man as per-programmed machines, who cannot be responsible for their sinful actions, or their rejection of Jesus Christ as Saviour, as they have no say in this. Can you see the nonsense and danger there is in this thinking?

 

So, by your own admission, since these wicked people in Ezekiel, that God would rather turn and live, can and will be damned by God if they do not conform to His desires, as He says that the options are "live" or "die", which cannot refer to mere physical death, which bothers no unsaved sinner, as all are going to die. the context demands spiritual death, which, as you say are "chosen people", shows that these can indeed be lost!

 

You, like the rest who have responded here, have failed to deal with the Bible texts that I quoted at the start. WHY would God be "willing" that NONE perish, IF they cannot respond to the Gospel because He did not "elect" them? The passage in 2 Peter cannot refer to the "elect", who cannot "perish", so for Peter so say that God does not "will" this, is pointless, as He CANNOT. This argument is wasted, if it does not refer to the mockers and scoffers! The passages from Ezekiel also show that God does NOT desire the eternal death of the wicked, where again it cannot refer to the "elect", who cannot "die" spiritually, which is what these passages teach.

 

I believe that the "master" of John Calvin's theology, Augustine taught this "heresy and folly" as you rightly put it, as were his view on the Atonement!

 

Please answer what I have said on your comments on Ezekiel, and then we can move on, thanks

 

You have not. Simply put, there is no Calvinist who can honestly deal with the passages from 2 Peter and Ezekiel, as they show that their "theology" on predestination and limited atonement are unbiblical. As I have said more than once, in either passage those referred to cannot be the "elect", as what is said of them, makes no sense whatsoever, unless they are just sinners, elect and non elect

 

typical Calvinist response. criticize those you cannot answer! you said those referred to as "wicked" who God said would DIE if they did not turn and repent, referred to God's "chosen people", whom you say are being "disciplined" in these passages. Tell me, why would God not want these to "die", and rather "live", which contextually is speaking of "spiritual" life and death? I mean, what is the point in God saying to these "elect" persons, that if they did not stop being wicked, they would DIE in eternal hell, which the passage is speaking with, if they could not go there? Why threaten something that is not even possible? If, as the passage clearly does, it speaks to the LOST WICKED, the NON-ELECT, then we have very clear Bible evidence that God WILLS these also to be saved. This is EXACTLY what 2 Peter 3:9sq is saying!