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Featured God Does Not Will Any To Be Lost, Some Men Do!

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by AndyAnsell, May 5, 2017.

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  1. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Me too. He was a committed CT man. :D

    Same concern. :D

    Georg, Germans spell things differently. Even their names. His Grammatik des Neutestamentlichen Sprachidioms was pretty good. But I think the title of Moulton's translation left something to be desired. I think it should have been "A Grammar of New Testament Idioms."

    Of course. But claiming victory by saying, "Well the Holy Spirit revealed this to me so that proves that I am right and you are wrong" is probably not a real good argument to make. It is too easy for your opponent to say, "Well the Holy Spirit revealed this to me so that proves that I am right and you are wrong!" So, in such discussions we are forced to rely on scholarship. :)

    Please. That is the 4th time you have implied that I am dishonest in my reasons for believing in Byzantine Priority. It has to stop. And it has to stop NOW!
     
    #81 TCassidy, May 5, 2017
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  2. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    You are making this personal. It is time to either dial it back a couple notches or take a break from the BB.

    Slandering your brothers and sisters in Christ is probably not the best way to gain credibility on this forum. :)
     
    #82 TCassidy, May 5, 2017
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  3. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    "Us", "you". Does it really matter? Peter wrote to the churches. "Us" and/or "you" would equal the church anyway. It is not like Peter issued a PSA to the pagans of Asia Minor.

    Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk
     
    #83 McCree79, May 5, 2017
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  4. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    But repentance itself is a gift of God.

    God's wrath has been appeased for all who Christ died for. That is why they who die lost go to eternal torment. God's wrath has not been appeased towards them, as they have not had their sin debt paid by Christ.
     
    #84 SovereignGrace, May 5, 2017
  5. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Yes, but 2 Peter is part of what is called the "Catholic" or "General" Epistles. To the churches, certainly. All the churches, unlike Paul who named the churches he was writing to.

    But some will take that to mean Peter's intended readers went beyond the churches and were now addressing all of mankind. Peter makes it very clear his intended readers are "those who have obtained a like precious faith with us in the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ."

    Hard to say, in context, that Peter is addressing the unconverted, but some, desperate to advance their flawed soteriological theories, will still insist on just that.
     
    #85 TCassidy, May 5, 2017
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  6. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    We are not sour pusses, but tired of ppl trying to force the Christ to marry that which He did not die for, nor ever intended to marry. The church is His bride, and He died for His bride. This is per Ephesians 5:25.

    We are tired of ppl trying to make the Christ a goat herder when He is the Shepherd of His sheep, and not goats. But when we confront such erroneous doctrine, we're sourpusses? Hardly. Just tired of the error that gets pushed on here.
     
    #86 SovereignGrace, May 5, 2017
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  7. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Let me sum this post up in a more concise manner folks...

    [​IMG]
     
    #87 SovereignGrace, May 5, 2017
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  8. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    He isn't seeing his inconsistencies. He is saying God's wrath has been appeased. Great, then no one goes to hell. He then used John 3:36. So, which is it? God's wrath appeased or its not. God's wrath hovering over the disobedient does not mean His wrath has been appeased.

    Ah, but it has for those whom the Christ died for.

    Their exegesis and hermeneutics leave LOTS of holes in their theology and LOTS to be desired. :(
     
    #88 SovereignGrace, May 5, 2017
  9. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Maurice Robinson, who you quote later in your post does not believe what "every textual critic on the face of the earth" believes. The majority of New Testament textual critics don't agree with your assertion either. Those that go with the Byzantine theory are in the minority.
     
    #89 Rippon, May 5, 2017
  10. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    You are inconsistent. The CT based tranlations are notorious for their erroneous varients you say.
    The NKJV lists a fair number of variants and a number of translations list a number of them. Why not? Is that a
    notorious practice? No, it's the honest thing to do.

    How can the CT based translations be considered "notorious" on one hand yet 99.5% correct?

    You offer a new meaning for notorious.Anyone would want to be considered notorious if they are also considered to correct 99.5% of the time.
     
    #90 Rippon, May 5, 2017
  11. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    You seem to have missed the point. I said, "notorious for their . . . variants."

    Notorious = well known.

    I know very few people who are even moderately knowledgeable about bible texts, translations etc., who are unaware there are variants.
     
    #91 TCassidy, May 5, 2017
  12. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Once again you have failed to understand. Every text critic knows that number, being a factor in textual transmission, matters.

    Some place more emphasis on number than others but all consider number to be important. Including my friend, Dr. Robinson. But number is not the end all of manuscript evidence. It is one of the nine I listed.
     
    #92 TCassidy, May 5, 2017
  13. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Nothing in the verse says free will. For you to try extrapolate free will from this verse is for you to force your presupposition on the verse.
     
    #93 MennoSota, May 5, 2017
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  14. AndyAnsell

    AndyAnsell Member
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    It always is very personal. This is what I have seen first-hand from the Calvinists that I have known, to argue their point, even when they are clearly wrong. I see here that you cannot admit that the correct reading in 2 Peter 3:9 is "you", even though the greater majority of the textual evidence, of Greek manuscripts (older), Greek and English versions, do say that this is the original one. But, because this will indeed cause problems with your "theology", you will not accept it, and hang on to the CT as though it is so very right! These are facts, and in this debate it does get tough, and I have no intention of taking any break from BB.
     
    #94 AndyAnsell, May 6, 2017
  15. AndyAnsell

    AndyAnsell Member
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    The EVIDENCE is stacked against you!
     
    #95 AndyAnsell, May 6, 2017
  16. AndyAnsell

    AndyAnsell Member
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    Well said Rippon, I repeat again, that it is because of THEOLOGY and not what the text actually says, that people make their decisions on. They will look around for some support that agrees with them, and hang on to it for dear life. They will not accept that the MAJORITY of the textual evidence is clearly against them, because by doing so, their THEOLOGY is challenged!
     
    #96 AndyAnsell, May 6, 2017
  17. AndyAnsell

    AndyAnsell Member
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    LOL!!! You guys talk about inconsistent? The EVIDENCE for 2 Peter 3.9, as YOU is in the GREATER versions of the Bible, which is deemed to be wrong because it would shoot holes in your THEOLOGY!
     
    #97 AndyAnsell, May 6, 2017
  18. AndyAnsell

    AndyAnsell Member
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    It does matter, as one reading is correct and the other is not. For THEOLOGICAL purposes alone, the reading US is accepted by the few, as it helps their THEOLOGY, and will disregard what has the BEST evidence in textual studies, because if they did accept is, would challenge their THEOLOGY!
     
    #98 AndyAnsell, May 6, 2017
  19. AndyAnsell

    AndyAnsell Member
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    "WE mus be honest". Unless you cannot understand the English language, WE includes ME!
     
    #99 AndyAnsell, May 6, 2017
  20. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    And what evidence is that? So far I am the only one who has posted any evidence regarding the Greek manuscripts.
     
    #100 TCassidy, May 6, 2017
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