Conditional Immortality! Do You Understand It? Do You Believe It?

The scriptures teach that all are immortal, for we are those created still in image of God, but that only redeemed have "eternal life:, in sense of presence with God!

 

Yes, as the scriptures teach that Hell is eternal, so they would have to be immortal!

 

Mark, I really like how you put that -- the contrast between the condition of salvation (leading to eternal life by means of making our corruptible bodies incorruptible and immortal) and non-salvation (forfeiting eternal life, by means of death which is the end of a life) could not be made more clear in the Bible.

I think the two eschatological views that teach unconditional immortality (universalism and eternal conscious torment) both make a very simple mistake of treating a temporary thing as though it were permanent. Universalism treats the temporary gift of life given to all men since the Fall as being man's rightful condition, so that God is being unjust if He removes it; while eternal torment treats the "Day of Judgment" as being a permanent condition instead of being a Day.

Yeshua1, I agree that man is in the image of God still; but this is nowhere in the Bible taught to mean that man deserves to live forever. It's not sensible to assume it means that without some kind of justification; otherwise people could simply assume that being in the image of God means whatever crazy doctrine they wanted to push.

In the institution of the Image of God (Genesis 1:26) God explains that the image of God is given to "let man rule over" the other creatures on Earth. This has nothing to do with being immortal; and perhaps more importantly, this could not possibly be fulfilled in a place (like hell is in the eternal-torment theory) where man no longer can rule over the other creatures and can no longer represent God to those creatures.

In Genesis 3:22, God, although remembering that man is in His image, nonetheless says that given man's knowledge of good and evil, man cannot live forever. There's no hint here that this problem is limited to man's body; on the contrary, man's knowledge of good and evil impacts his mind, as many passages in the New Testament make clear we cannot call ourselves saved from sin without the renewal of the mind.

We next see God's image mentioned in Genesis 9:6, where it's the justification for executing murderers. This passage shows that the ancients could not possibly have thought that "in God's image" means "immortal", since here it means man CAN be killed!

There are no other clear texts that bear on the issue of the image of God. James correctly tells us that it's bad to despise the image of God verbally when we honor God in church; and some people think Jesus tells us that because we have the image of God stamped on us we owe ourselves to God (just as we owe Caesar taxes on coins stamped with Caesar's image). But none of this helps us understand whether immortality is part of man's inherent condition.

So I don't think simply pointing out that we're in the image of God helps settle this issue at all.

On the other hand, when Paul glorifies Christ as God by saying that He is the one "who alone has immortality", or that Christ's gospel "brought immortality to light", I think he makes it very clear that we did not and could not expect immortality apart from Christ.

 

This is about as close as it gets:

Matthew 25
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

HankD

 

Eternal punishment - a punishment with eternal consequences - separation from God forever. The word translated punishment can refer to confinement or enforced separation.

I just skimmed this but anytime the concept that the torment will not be eternal is presented, we need to always make clear the torment will be real, and horrible, and last as long as God's perfect justice requires. Otherwise you would be open to the charge that you are saying eternal punishment is actually eternal rest in peace. And that is not the message of Christ!

 

I really like it when people give Biblical reasons to think the way they do. I clicked "Like" on HankD's message for that reason, even though I don't think he got the passage he was quoting perfectly right -- he was reading a Biblical text, and interpreting it well; the only problem is that he missed part of the text.

But when you say this kind of thing, I have to wonder... why do you even think it's true? It doesn't sound like anything the Bible mentions.

In the context of Matt 25, Jesus offers two hints that preclude that "mere separation" reading.

First, this punishment includes being sent into the eternal fire. This is NOT mere "separation", but a punishment which begins by sending them into the same fire that Jude 7 and 2 Peter 2:6 say reduced Sodom to ashes.

Second, as Mark Corbett mentioned in response to HankD's challenge, this "eternal punishment" is opposed to the fate of "eternal life." The righteous, in this picture of final judgment, are sent into life, and receive no punishment; the wicked are sent into punishment and receive no life. But this is _death_, not mere separation.

I could add a third problem with this mere separation view, although it's not contextual: it ignores the problem of mankind existing apart from God. Throughout the Bible God's presence is what gives us life; Paul explains when testifying to pagans "in Him we live, and move, and have our being" (Acts 17:28). There's no reason to think that being separated from God makes sense even _now_. And in the age to come it makes even less sense: then, "God will be all in all" and all things will be submitted to Christ and to Himself (Eph 1:22, 1 Cor 15:27, Heb 2:8), uniting all things to God (see the context of the previous passages).

Conditionalists (that is, believers in conditional immortality as presented above) do affirm this. Torment will last as long as God's perfect justice requires. But torment is not in general the wages of sin! Rather, torment is the penalty deserved for specific acts which violate conscience (Rom 2), persecute believers (2Thess 1), or harm God's church (Luke 12). The wages of sin, ALL sin and ANY sin, is _death_; as Romans 1:32 says, this is what everyone knows God's righteous decree is against all who sin. That is the fundamental problem the first murderer (the serpent) introduced in the world; and it's the problem Eve's offspring, Jesus, solved by dying for us. From the first sin in Genesis to the resurrection in Revelation, the problem is sin leading to death, and the cure is the Spirit giving everlasting life. There is no life apart from salvation in Christ!

Well, that certainly is a profound confusion about the message of Christ, yes! But it's entirely due to a confusion about what we mean when we say "rest in peace." Resting, sleeping, is only wonderful when we know someone's going to wake up later. That's not the case with your "eternal rest in peace." When Paul considered the possibility of resurrection never happening, his reaction was not that we would eternally rest in peace; it was that we are of all men the most miserable, because our dead who we think have merely "fallen asleep" would in fact have "already perished."

And this shows us that to perish doesn't mean to be tormented forever; it means to lose your life, and NOT to be able to take it up again. This is why Jesus warned that whoever denies Him in order to save their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life by continuing to preach Him will save it. Surely this has to be the most frequently repeated teaching of Christ in the Gospels! And this, again, is the clear and continuous teaching of conditional immortality in the Bible.

 

Matthew 5:26. "Assuredly I say to you, you will by no means get out of there until you have paid the last penny."
Mark 9:47-48. "And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two yes, to be cast into hell fire-- where 'their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.'"
Luke 12:4-5. "My friends, do not fear those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will show you whom you should fear: fear Him who after He has killed, has power to cast into hell. Yes, I say to you, fear Him!"
Luke 17:2. "It would be better for him if a millstone were hung about his neck and he were thrown into the sea........"
Revelation 20:10ff. 'The devil.....was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever..........And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.'

I have a practical freason for being very concerned about 'Conditional Immortality.' As you will know it is the teaching of the JWs and Mormons. Some years ago a friend of mine, who was an unbeliever and lived a very immoral life, attended Bible Studies with the JWs. At the end of them, she said, "I'd sooner live my life today, and at the end, I'll just say, 'Cheerio!' to God and disappear." That remains her position today, and she is now Gospel-proof, unless, of course, God does a work on her heart. God is not mocked, and those who think they can thumb their noses at God and then just pop off at the end of their lives will have a terrible shock and we need to be warning them, not telling them that it won't be so bad after all.

 

If at "the end of the day" I find out that Christ indeed died in total propitiation for EVERY man (human being) and that hell is/was a metaphorical description that is/was not unending separation from God then not one word of complaint would come forth from my mouth

Luke 15
31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.
32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.


He is the only way and those who rejected Him, or knew Him not, then they would haveto be "forced" to kneel before Him, renounce and reject their gods in submission to Him.

Philippians 2
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

I can always dream the impossible dream.

I guess that makes me close to being the H word.


HankD

 

I'm curious....
You started with a premise - namely, that immortality and eternal life are synonyms.

Do you have biblical support for that premise?

 

I forgot one other text:
Daniel 12:2. 'And many of those who sleep in the dust shall awake, some to everlasting life, some to shame and everlasting contempt.'

Thank you for your kind prayer. However, I'm no longer in touch with the lady, but who knows........

 

That's a good question, because it addresses the actual point being made.

Yes. First of all, "immortality" means "without death", both in Greek and English. "Eternal life" means (at least) life forever, which requires a lack of dying. You can check this in any Greek-English lexicon (which means a list of how a given Greek word is translated to English -- there's a very good lexicon at www.stepbible.org).

The relationship between death and life is established first in Genesis 3, which tells us that man cannot live forever due to his sin, and therefore God sends him away from the Tree of Life which would potentially enable that. As a result, Adam finds himself forced to struggle for food until he finally dies, at which point God tells him "you will return to dust." At Adam's death, at least part of his life ends; the implication is the ultimately, his life cannot go on forever, but must end utterly.

The close pairing of immortality with living forever is perhaps clearer in Hebrew, where the idea of God being immortal cannot be directly stated; rather, over and over those who understand God address Him as "the one who lives forever." To Nebuchadnezzar, this was the humiliation God put him through -- that God's plans would be carried out because God will be living forever, while we do not. Moses didn't need to be humiliated in this way; in Psalm 90, the "song of Moses", he proclaims that we live only briefly, but God lives forever.

But Jesus made clear something the prophets could only faintly see -- that the good news of immortality in eternal life was available through Him. This is why Paul said Jesus "abolished death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel." (2 Tim. 1:10 CSB) Jesus likewise tells us that "Everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die-- ever." (Jn. 11:26 CSB) This promise is nowhere offered to the wicked, as Mark made clear in the OP.

So yes, living forever means to be immortal. And everyone who has eternal life will never die; nobody who lacks eternal life will live forever; rather, their life will be taken from them by the one with the power to destroy body and soul in gehenna.

 

Is this a treatise on Annihilationism?