Why do Arminians have such a small view of God?

What do you think MennoSota does this poem explain it, that's the only answer I can come up with... Brother Glen

Invictus by William Earnest Henley

Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.

In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.

Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the Horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds and shall find me unafraid.

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate,
I am the Captain of my Soul.

 

Why do Calvinists question beg?

 

As Roger Olson puts it, "Yes to God's Sovereignty; No to Divine Determinism".

Rob

 

Why would we object to God doing anyhting though? can we not trust that in whatever he does, its always right?

 

many then would repond that "no, we are not in charge of saving ourselves"

 

A synonym of 'trust' is 'believe' or 'to have faith in'.
It is God's will that we choose to trust in him.
I don't see that as diminishing him in any way.

BTW I don't consider myself either an Arminianism or Calvinist.

Rob

 

Yeshua - why did Jesus let the rich young ruler walk away?

 

They are no Arminians on this board that I know of. They're semi-Pelagians.

 

Simple, they haven't studied the bible, or don't believe it, one or the other. Scripture is clear throughout that all things that come to pass are ordained by God, even the foolishness of men, the Ostrich who forgets it's eggs, and the false teachers.

How they miss this is either 1. Ignorance of the full Revelation God has given us. 2. Unregenerate so that they cannot see and hear. 3. Are so bogged down in their traditions and human philosophy that they make a god out of their own imagining.

God is very bold in the statements He makes of Himself from Genesis to Revelation, if we are to honor God, we are to learn His word as the most important thing in our lives, believe it whether it makes sense to our fallen senses or not, and not speak, teach or debate until we have done this.

There is a reason that the most trained in Scripture, those with Doctorates, real Doctorates, and the greats of the faith from Augustine to Luther, Calvin to Knox, and on all up to our present time where Reformed. Today we live in a post-biblical/pagan world, a world where mans reason, traditions come first, and where God's word is mocked.

God has said if you are rich, He is the reason why. If you are poor, He is the reason why. Where you live, who you are, God says are determined by Him, as are the days of our lives. God says He either saves rebels or leaves them in perdition, God says even something seemingly insignificant such as the outcome of the roll of the dice is from Him. Even our words, God says do not come from us, but from Him "A mans thoughts are his, but every word spoke is of the Lord". God says the weather, animals, catastrophes are all from Him, nothing is outside His providence, He even said "Who creates evil, is it not I says the Lord".

This is fact, I don't care if you disagree aside from the fact that you may be reprobate, God has said it in His word so it's settled whether I believe it or not. If any of this is confusing, fine, just get off the board, pray to the Lord for eyes and ears and STUDY. You'll most likely, if you are like the average Reformed person see the indisputable fact of what God claims for Himself, perhaps be confused, perhaps be troubled, even the greatest philosopher in American history, Jonathan Edwards was very troubled until the Lord showed Him the full Revelation, and as he said "It at once all seemed to me so beautiful and brilliant". Just give it time, remember I fought Reformed theology, but I couldn't fight God's word, I took it on faith, I truly think when you do that, you honor Him, and He gives you more.

Today I look at Armenian theology and do not see Christianity, I've just debated the topic too long, it's a form of Roman Catholicism. Did you know the hinge on which the Reformation took place? Penance? Lords Supper? No, it was free will, Luther, in his debates with Erasmus congratulated his Roman Catholic foe on understanding the main point of Luther wishing to Reform the Roman Church, they believed in free will, while Scripture teaches that free will does not exist. If you believe in free will you are on Romes side, not the Reformers, never forget that.

 

What's "armenian theology"?

 

I claim classical arminian, and I agree with you: most people today who claim to be arminian, and/or those that are called arminian by others, tend to actually be semi-pelagian.

 

Hey at least the man is honest, good for you, of course disagree with you 100%, but Classic Arminianism is very close, as you know, to Calvinism, those on this board are Semi/full Pelagians. I'm curious as to how you came to this view, very few Calvinists know what Classical Arminianism is. You might be someone I can debate, you appear honest, know what you're talking about, etc. When I say "Debate", I mean more of a scholarly, respectful debate, none of this back and forth let's see who can hit who fastest. Perhaps it would give everyone a good example, since they clearly won't do their own study!

 

Don't you love it, oldest "trick", instead of answering, they find a variant in your writing, change it to that as they can't answer the other

 

Yes true Christianity is humbling, I mean I love it, I prefer being the baby, God my dad as Edwards said. I have no interest is sailing the ship, when I do it always hits a rock, or reaches the wrong destination. I do think Pride as you are saying is a big one, but also ignorance, and finally tradition. Perhaps they are raised "Christian", have read a bit, and either 1. HATE the idea, as do the Atheists of someone or thing being sovereign over everything they do..2. Aren't really saved, so when you give scripture, in context, they simply don't believe it.

Once in bible study I read Hebrews 12 all the way through, one word at a time to explain how God violates our free will (That wasn't part of it really), and corrects us. The leader said "MY GOD is not like that", so I walked out.

How do they explain passages such as the announcement of the New Covenant "I will make with them a new covenant, I will put the fear of myself in them so they will not leave me", or "I prevented him from sinning against you", or "The Lord incited David to take a census", it's endless, God is CONSTANTLY, well He's our life, in Him we live, move, and have our being, even if man had free will, so does God, whose is stronger?

Then there are the final category, those who have studied, and end up Classical Arminians, the answer to that is easy, it's answered by another questions, "Why does a adherent to the Roman Church stay when exposed to the truth".

It's just sad, I've debated these guys for over a decade, a Pentecostal pastor once for 12 hours, after he said "Well I can't disagree with you but I'm not preaching that". Frankly most are not worth the time, they can read Dr. White's "Potters Freedom", they can watch the debates online, they're just too lazy to, so why get stressed out, worked up if one wishes to remain ignorant? I admire my brothers who do fight it out, I just think it's a waste of time, we are now in a day and age where Calv/Arm debates online, so they don't have to strain themselves with study, are plentiful, I just see them as heretics UNLESS they are new Christians, unaware of the debate, but if faced with truth and reject it, they never were genuine, trust me you'll come to the same conclusion once you hit whatever 10,000 debates, it's talking to a wall

 

???

 

Rob, with respect you will find over time you, whether you like it or not fall into one of the camps. I can ask you a series of questions, and everyone on this board will give the exact same answer as to which camp you are in based on those questions, as it's so obvious. You're new, that's fine, welcome to the debate, trust in the Lord and His word whether you agree, makes sense or not

 

Why not? Is your question in relation to this debate? If so, see John 6:40 et al.

 

Of course it's in relation to the debate.

Using John 6:40 as a response is a stretch. Try explaining the rich young ruler in the context of John 6:44.