Conditional Immortality! Do You Understand It? Do You Believe It?

In terms of "eternal life" meaning "living forever", before I give another Biblical reference, I think it helps to keep in mind that the Bible uses normal human language in order to teach God's truths. This doesn't mean the Bible can't take a normal word and give it a specialized meaning or additional meaning. But even when it does this, like with the words "Apostle" and "Good News", these words still maintain a core element of their original day to day meaning. An "Apostle" is still someone sent by someone in authority to represent them, and the message about Jesus is still, quite literally, "Good News". And so it would be quite strange if the phrase "eternal life" did not mean, quite literally, "to live forever".

Now here's another Bible reference that might help:

John 6:47 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
48 I am the bread of life.
49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died.
50 This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die.

In verse 47 Jesus mentions "eternal life". As in many other verses, this "eternal life" is condtional. The condition is believing in Jesus.

In verse 49 Jesus mentions the Israelites who died in the wilderness. Of course, they literally died.

In verse 50, Jesus says that He came from Heaven to be the bread of life so that we may eat of it (accept Him, believe Him, receive Him) and not die.

verse 47: believing leads to eternal life
verse 49: mentions people who died, referring to their physical death
verse 50: eating (accepting/believing/receiving) Jesus leads to not dying

I hope this helps.

I think this is another example of the "already/not yet" nature of the Christian life which is seen throughout the New Testament. We already possess eternal life in terms of it being a certainty for those who have accepted Christ. Yet we are not yet seeing it with our eyes in the way we will in the next age.

 

First, let me say that I really like your forum name “in the light”. That’s how we all want to live!

Second, many true doctrines seems “strange”, especially when we first study them. God sending His Son to die in our place seems very strange to many people, but praise God, it’s true! A doctrine feeling strange does not in itself make it true or false.

Now, wrt to figuring out the usefulness of the doctrine of Conditional Immortality:

We evaluate a doctrine by the Biblical evidence first, not by whether or not we think it will be helpful. For example, I believe that all homosexual acts are sinful acts because of what the Bible teaches, even though in our current cultural setting such a belief is extremely unpopular and at a surface level seems to make it more difficult for us to spread God’s message.

However, please don’t think I’m saying it is wrong to ask how a certain doctrine, if true, “helps the cause of Christ, edifies Christians, or advances the gospel”. The question “how is it useful?” is a great question when it comes AFTER the question “based on the Bible, is it true?”

Here are two ways in which the doctrine of Conditional Immortality can be useful:

1. Many people have turned away from a theologically conservative, evangelical faith in part because they are reacting against the teaching that a good, loving God would keep people alive and torment them for far longer than a trillion years for sins they committed in one short lifetime. They wrongly think that the best alternative is a postmodern theology (like Rob Bell), or even worse they reject Christianity altogether and embrace atheism. If we taught Conditional Immortality, we would take away one of the major reasons people give for rejecting a Biblical, evangelical faith.

2. The doctrine of eternal torment harms God’s Name by making Him look unjust in the eyes of many. Conditional Immortality corrects this.

I am NOT saying we should believe in Conditional Immortality because of these benefits. I am saying that after we study the Bible, if a person sees that it teaches Conditional Immortality, than there are benefits, including the two mentioned above.

Thanks for bringing this up, it is important to see why something is important!

 

I don't doubt that you are correct. I thank God for the opportunity to interact on a forum with many people who are better educated than I am and who have experiences that I don't. I'm glad for the opportunity to share my ideas and thoughts and to receive feedback from such men and women.

But I want to go father than that. I'm thankful for the feedback I get and the things I learn from ALL the members of this forum community, including some who may have less formal education than I do.

When we were serving the Lord in Indonesia, we experienced the immense blessing of serving alongside some Indonesian believers. One in particular was an amazing example to me. She often spent several hours a day in prayer, and this is not an exaggeration. And she was constantly going and ministering in the power of Christ to her neighbors, including her Muslim neighbors. She also often counseled, comforted, and encouraged women who were younger than her. This lady was very short, but I looked up to her. She never graduated from elementary school. She reminded me of this verse:

ESV Acts 4:13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were uneducated, common men, they were astonished. And they recognized that they had been with Jesus.

 

Aaron,

You asked me the following question:

“Tell me what the first death is?” (see comment #43)

To my knowledge the Bible never uses the phrase “first death”. However, it does use the phrase “second death”. I tried to answer your question in relation to the phrase “second death”. Here are some further thoughts on that:

Let’s look at the first use of the phrase “second death”:

Revelation 2:10 Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you life as your victor's crown. 11 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who is victorious will not be hurt at all by the second death.

It is significant that the first use of “second death” occurs in the context of a letter to a local church. The church in Smyrna was facing persecution. Jesus encourages them to remain faithful even if they are put to death for their faith. This refers to literal death (what else would it refer to?). Jesus then promises them that even if they die, He will give them life as a victor’s crown. He also promises that they will not be hurt by “the second death”. In verse 10, “death” clearly refers to a literal, physical death. In this context, that would be their “first death”.

Having said that, I don’t disagree that people are metaphorically dead (unresponsive to God) before they are saved (if they do get saved) and before they experience physical death. You may call that a “first death”, but the Bible does not use that term, and that is not what the Bible is referring to when it implies there is a “first death” by using the phrase “second death”.

 

Sure. Because I've been studying Conditional Immortality for about 8 years or so (and was introduced to it quite a bit before then), it's easy to forget that not everyone knows what I mean by Conditional Immortality.

The positive side, which is not really controversial, is that those who truly believe in Jesus Christ (the condition) will live forever (the immortality).

The controversial side of this doctrine concerns the fate of the unrighteous. This part of the doctrine is often called annihilationism. Here's what I understand the Bible to teach about the fate of the unrighteous:

1. They will be resurrected for the purpose of facing judgment.

2. Part of their judgment consists in a finite amount of conscious suffering. The Bible clearly indicates this is the case, but does not give details. I do think the Bible implies that this part of their punishment will vary depending on factors such as the amount and nature of their sin and also how much knowledge they had of God's will.

3. All the unrighteous will eventually be completely destroyed body and soul. There may be ashes, smoke, or dust left over, but there will not be any conscious people able to feel pain.

If you have more questions, let me know. I'll do my best to answer. I also preached a 2 part sermon where I explained the negative side of Conditional Immortality (annihilationism) as carefully as possible. You may view part 1 here and after that it should be easy to find part 2, :

 

ESV Jude 1:7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

The simple answer is that while the fire may be eternal, the people consumed by it are not.

Here’s a more complex explanation.

Jude 1:7 is saying a couple of things which are relevant to our discussion:

1. The people of Sodom Gomorrah underwent a “punishment of eternal fire.”

2. Their fate serves as an example.

There is no fire continuing to burn in Sodom and Gomorrah today. So why is the fire called “eternal fire”?

The best explanation I’ve heard is that the fire comes from God. God is often presented as having fire around Him. It seems that this fire of God/fire from God can affect people differently depending on their situation. For the redeemed in Heaven, this glowing fire is beautiful and glorious. But for the impure, it destroys them. Thus, any given expression of the fire, like the fire that burned up Sodom and Gomorrah, may not last forever. However, the fire itself, which is closely associated with God, does last forever.

We can understand this even more clearly by looking at another verse which mentions the burning of Sodom and Gomorrah as an example:

ESV 2 Peter 2:6 if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction, making them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;

This verse makes it explicit that the ungodly will be burned to ashes. I just recently explored this topic in a post on my blog:

parresiazomai: Downburned and Ashified, The Annihilation of the Unrighteous

 

I completely agree that a "second death" implies a first one, as can be seen by reading the rest of the comment you partly quoted.