A thought on the cost of discipleship

[Steven Yeadon]

If you really want to be happy, to love your life, to enjoy life to the fullest this world can provide, and have everything you want in this world, you should never choose to be a Christian. If these are your primary goals, then never follow Jesus Christ. Of course, I am a Christian. If you want eternal life you must embrace the Gospel on faith and follow Jesus. But this way of life is not for those who have a deep desire for this world and what it has to offer. (James 4:3-4) (Luke 14:25-35)

Lastly, from my own personal perspective there have been many times in the last year that I felt like my faith was sapping my happiness or adding to my pain or just in the way of a better life. Yet, enduring and persevering in faith and fidelity to God's commands will give us a reward far beyond our earthly struggles (Romans 8:18).

Now there are some questions:

Am I reading the Word correctly? Because if I am, then:

1. Doesn't this condemn many church leaders who teach that you get a better life on earth by being a Believer?
2. Doesn't this condemn those who are young or old who say that they will keep the faith because it gives them more things of this world? People who make a pragmatic argument for faith in Jesus because it gives you better health, longer life, more happiness as scientific studies show.
3. Isn't this the condemnation of the personal ethos many, especially young people, have, which is "do whatever makes you happy and enriches your life."
4. Most importantly if this is true, then how do we win souls among people who are out for pleasure mainly, and are thus hedonistic, especially those that are young.

 

[Baptist Believer]

"The cross is laid on every Christian. The first Christ-suffering which every man must experience is the call to abandon the attachments of this world. It is that dying of the old man which is the result of his encounter with Christ. As we embark upon discipleship we surrender ourselves to Christ in union with his death—we give over our lives to death. Thus it begins; the cross is not the terrible end to an otherwise god-fearing and happy life, but it meets us at the beginning of our communion with Christ. When Christ calls a man, he bids him come and die. It may be a death like that of the first disciples who had to leave home and work to follow him, or it may be a death like Luther’s, who had to leave the monastery and go out into the world. But it is the same death every time—death in Jesus Christ, the death of the old man at his call."

—The Cost of Discipleship, Dietrich Bonhoeffer

 

[Revmitchell]

"The cross is laid on every Christian. The first Christ-suffering which every man must experience is the call to abandon the attachments of this world. It is that dying of the old man which is the result of his encounter with Christ. As we embark upon discipleship we surrender ourselves to Christ in union with his death—we give over our lives to death. Thus it begins; the cross is not the terrible end to an otherwise god-fearing and happy life, but it meets us at the beginning of our communion with Christ. When Christ calls a man, he bids him come and die. It may be a death like that of the first disciples who had to leave home and work to follow him, or it may be a death like Luther’s, who had to leave the monastery and go out into the world. But it is the same death every time—death in Jesus Christ, the death of the old man at his call."

—The Cost of Discipleship, Dietrich Bonhoeffer

This is another one of those things (few as they may be) that we agree on.

Luk 14:25 Now great crowds accompanied him, and he turned and said to them,
Luk 14:26 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple.
Luk 14:27 Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple.
Luk 14:28 For which of you, desiring to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, whether he has enough to complete it?
Luk 14:29 Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him,
Luk 14:30 saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish.’
Luk 14:31 Or what king, going out to encounter another king in war, will not sit down first and deliberate whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand?
Luk 14:32 And if not, while the other is yet a great way off, he sends a delegation and asks for terms of peace.
Luk 14:33 So therefore, any one of you who does not renounce all that he has cannot be my disciple.
Salt Without Taste Is Worthless
Luk 14:34 “Salt is good, but if salt has lost its taste, how shall its saltiness be restored?
Luk 14:35 It is of no use either for the soil or for the manure pile. It is thrown away. He who has ears to hear, let him hear.”

One is either a child of God and a disciple or neither. We cannot be one without the other.

 

[Crabtownboy]

“When Christ calls a man, he bids him come and die.”





Dietrich Bonhoeffer

 

[HankD]

If you really want to be happy, to love your life, to enjoy life to the fullest this world can provide, and have everything you want in this world, you should never choose to be a Christian. If these are your primary goals, then never follow Jesus Christ. Of course, I am a Christian. If you want eternal life you must embrace the Gospel on faith and follow Jesus. But this way of life is not for those who have a deep desire for this world and what it has to offer. (James 4:3-4) (Luke 14:25-35)

Lastly, from my own personal perspective there have been many times in the last year that I felt like my faith was sapping my happiness or adding to my pain or just in the way of a better life. Yet, enduring and persevering in faith and fidelity to God's commands will give us a reward far beyond our earthly struggles (Romans 8:18).

Now there are some questions:

Am I reading the Word correctly? Because if I am, then:

1. Doesn't this condemn many church leaders who teach that you get a better life on earth by being a Believer?
2. Doesn't this condemn those who are young or old who say that they will keep the faith because it gives them more things of this world? People who make a pragmatic argument for faith in Jesus because it gives you better health, longer life, more happiness as scientific studies show.
3. Isn't this the condemnation of the personal ethos many, especially young people, have, which is "do whatever makes you happy and enriches your life."
4. Most importantly if this is true, then how do we win souls among people who are out for pleasure mainly, and are thus hedonistic, especially those that are young.

Hmm, maybe I married the wrong woman? This is not my story.

HankD

 

[Steven Yeadon]

Hmm, maybe I married the wrong woman? This is not my story.

HankD

That got me thinking that I may have gone too far, because I used the word "never." The truth is that we do have hope and victory through and despite our struggles, and Believers can have good times of plenty. I'll have to think about how to reword things.

I decoupled worldly blessing from belief in Jesus Christ, which isn't always true.

 

[HankD]

That got me thinking that I may have gone too far, because I used the word "never." The truth is that we do have hope and victory through and despite our struggles, and Believers can have good times of plenty. I'll have to think about how to reword things.

I decoupled worldly blessing from belief in Jesus Christ, which isn't always true.

Steve your status in life is a matter of your spiritual perception.

2 Corinthians 12:10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

Look up my brother.

HankD

 

[Steven Yeadon]

Ah, thank you, I had forgotten that verse and those like it.

I seem to be going about explaining this all wrong really. I must describe how our attitude must change from embracing the world to embracing the Kingdom, but as usual it just seems better to bring up the bible verses that say such rather than make a logical explanation from scratch. Really I could just quote the Sermon on the Mount to show this.

Still those that teach the errors I mention stand condemned, but they are condemned by other bible verses:

1. That you get a better life on earth by being a Believer. (2 Timothy 3:12) proves this wrong as does any talk of the cost of discipleship at all (Luke 14:25-35) (Luke 9:57-62) and (Matthew 8:18-22).

2. That we should keep the faith because it gives them more things of this world. People who make a pragmatic argument for faith in Jesus because it gives you better health, longer life, more happiness as scientific studies show. Above all the parable of the sower in (Matthew 13:1-23) (Mark 4:1-20) and (Luke 8:1-15) explains why they are in error because they assume there is no scorching sun or weeds and thorns. They also fail to understand practically the whole Sermon the Mount (Matthew 5-7) by putting this world first before the Kingdom.

3. The personal ethos many, especially young people, have, which is "do whatever makes you happy and enriches your life."

What do you think on this one HankD? It seems like a slimy statement to me, but I see how perspective matters as you mentioned.

4. How do we win souls among people who are out for pleasure mainly, and are thus hedonistic, especially those that are young?

This is still an open question, but probably one for another thread.

 

[HankD]

3. The personal ethos many, especially young people, have, which is "do whatever makes you happy and enriches your life."

What do you think on this one HankD? It seems like a slimy statement to me, but I see how perspective matters as you mentioned.

That would depend on the rudimentary source of what is suggesting
"do whatever makes you happy and enriches your life." If it's the Holy Spirit then you can't go wrong.
If not - trouble.

How do we know? Well if we are being led of the Spirit then we are the sheep of His pasture and He won't lead us into a hog waller. He uses His word to make us sensitive to His voice.

4. How do we win souls among people who are out for pleasure mainly, and are thus hedonistic, especially those that are young?

Well we don't actually win them, if anything we assist in bringing them to Christ. Rather than write a book on that subject what they need to know is that there is no pleasure of the flesh that satisfies the soul/spirit like the presence of God in one's life.

HankD

 

[Revmitchell]

Pro_11:30 The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise.

 

[Revmitchell]

4. How do we win souls among people who are out for pleasure mainly, and are thus hedonistic, especially those that are young?

Psalm 126:6 He who goes out weeping, bearing the seed for sowing, shall come home with shouts of joy, bringing his sheaves with him.

 

[HankD]

Pro_11:30 The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise.

OK.

HankD

 

[HankD]

Psalm 126:6 He who goes out weeping, bearing the seed for sowing, shall come home with shouts of joy, bringing his sheaves with him.

Good too,

HankD

 

[Steven Yeadon]

Also:

"for the joy of the Lord is your strength.”
-Nehemiah 8:10

 

[Steven Yeadon]

Ah! Also:

Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged, for the Lord your God will be with you wherever you go.”
-Joshua 1:9

 

[tyndale1946]

Isaiah 49:13 Sing, O heavens; and be joyful, O earth; and break forth into singing, O mountains: for the LORD hath comforted his people, and will have mercy upon his afflicted.

49:14 But Zion said, The LORD hath forsaken me, and my Lord hath forgotten me.

49:15 Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee.

49:16 Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands; thy walls are continually before me.

Take comfort my brother, no matter what trials and tribulations we go through in life the Lord "NEVER" forgets his own... Brother Glen