Questions Regarding Baptist Theology

[Aragorn]

As I stated in my introduction thread I have some questions regarding theology. They basically revolve around doctrines of transubstantiation and priestly confession.

1. Transubstantiation:
What is the Baptist view of Luke 22 19-21 and John 6:
"50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.

51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?

53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever."

After 10 years in Catholicism that seems rather clear and seems to strongly support transubstantiation. What is the Baptist refutation and answer for this?

2. Priestly confession:
John 20:
"21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained."
It seems to rather strongly suggest the ability of priests to forgive and retain sins. What is the Baptist interpretation?

Again I want to reiterate that I am earnestly seeking and await your answers. Thank you. God bless.

 

[BobRyan]

As I stated in my introduction thread I have some questions regarding theology. They basically revolve around doctrines of transubstantiation and priestly confession.

1. Transubstantiation:
What is the Baptist view of Luke 22 19-21 and John 6:
"50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.

51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?

53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever."

After 10 years in Catholicism that seems rather clear and seems to strongly support transubstantiation. What is the Baptist refutation and answer for this?

2. Priestly confession:
John 20:
"21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained."
It seems to rather strongly suggest the ability of priests to forgive and retain sins. What is the Baptist interpretation?

Again I want to reiterate that I am earnestly seeking and await your answers. Thank you. God bless.

Good questions.

I will answer for myself -- Baptists can answer for themselves.

1. Christ said "I AM the DOOR" in John 10 -- but Christ was not a wooden door.
2. Christ said "I AM the vine" in John 15 - but Christ is not a plant.
3. Christ said WE are His sheep - but we are not woolly sheep.
4. Christ said John the baptizer was Elijah the prophet - but we don't believe in reincarnation.
5. When Christ said in John 6 that he was the bread that came down from heaven -- nobody bites Christ that day - nor did He want them to HE said in John 6 "Eating literal flesh is worthless - it is My WORDS that have LIFE" and in John 1 "The WORD became FLESH and dwelt among us" and Deut 8 "Man does not live by BREAD alone but by every WORD that comes from the mouth of God".

 

[One Baptism]

Good questions.

I will answer for myself -- Baptists can answer for themselves.

1. Christ said "I AM the DOOR" in John 10 -- but Christ was not a wooden door.
2. Christ said "I AM the vine" in John 15 - but Christ is not a plant.
3. Christ said WE are His sheep - but we are not woolly sheep.
4. Christ said John the baptizer was Elijah the prophet - but we don't believe in reincarnation.
5. When Christ said in John 6 that he was the bread that came down from heaven -- nobody bites Christ that day - nor did He want them to HE said in John 6 "Eating literal flesh is worthless - it is My WORDS that have LIFE" and in John 1 "The WORD became FLESH and dwelt among us" and Deut 8 "Man does not live by BREAD alone but by every WORD that comes from the mouth of God".

Bro. Bob, as usual, you have a succinct way of presenting the truth, even in a most thought provoking way, "... nobody bites Christ that day - nor did He want them to ..."; truly like 'apples of gold in pictures of silver' ...

Let us see what Romanism teaches in regards this, "transubstantiation", and then look at what the Bible says in John 6, in its proper context.

John 6, "cometh to", "believeth on" [v35] and "As I live by the Father, so..." [v57]

John 6:35 KJB - And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

John 6:57 KJB - As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.​

Link to the Truth.

Q. Is John 6 really speaking about the Roman Catholic theological dogma of the 'transubstantiation' as they themselves insist?

Q. What does the Bible actually say? Let's look, but first, a definition:

Q. What is the Roman Catholic theological dogma of the 'transubstantiation'?:

"The "Transubstantiation" of the "Eucharist":

" ... when the priest consecrates bread and wine, so that they become Christ's body and Christ's blood. ...

... But in these two instances, the bread and wine of the Eucharist, the mind is not left to itself. By the revelation of Christ it knows that the substance has been changed, in the one case into the substance of his body, in the other into the substance of his blood. ...

... The accidents remain in their totality-for example, that which was wine and is now Christ's blood still has the smell of wine, the intoxicating power of wine. ...

... All we shall say here is that his body is wholly present ... " [EWTN online; Frank J. Sheed; Taken from Theology for Beginners © 1981 by Frank J. Sheed, Chapter 18.] - Transubstantiation

"... Bishops and priests being, as they are, God's interpreters and ambassadors, empowered in His name to teach mankind the divine law and the rules of conduct, and holding, as they do, His place on earth, it is evident that no nobler function than theirs can be imagined. Justly, therefore, are they called not only Angels, but even gods, because of the fact that they exercise in our midst the power and prerogatives of the immortal God.

In all ages, priests have been held in the highest honour; yet the priests of the New Testament far exceed all others. For the power of consecrating and offering the body and blood of our Lord and of forgiving sins, which has been conferred on them, not only has nothing equal or like to it on earth, but even surpasses human reason and understanding.. ..." [Source: The Catechism of the Council of Trent (The Roman Catechism), Sacrament of Holy Orders, Dignity of this Sacrament.] - http://catholicapologetics.info/thec...s-Orders.shtml

“...we find in obedience to the words of his priests - Hoc est Corpus Meum - God Himself descends on the altar, that he comes whenever they call Him; and as often as they call Him, and places Himself in their hands, even though they should be His enemies.

And after having come, he remains, entirely at their disposal; they move Him as they please, from one place to another; they may, if they wish, shut Him up in the tabernacle, expose Him on the altar, or carry Him outside the church; they may, if they choose, eat His flesh, and give Him for the food of others. ; Oh how great is their power!” [“The Dignity of the Priesthood”, by St. Alphonsus de Liguori, p. 9; http://www.freewebs.com/wallmell/Lig...iesPriest.pdf] - http://web.archive.org/web/201301201...tiesPriest.pdf

"...one place to another...", even in a little black bag... [Link, beware]

"... Thus the priest may, in a certain manner, be called the creator of his Creator, since by saying the words of consecration, he creates, as it were, Jesus in the sacrament, by giving him a sacramental existence, and produces him as a victim to be offered to the eternal Father.

As in creating the world it was sufficient for God to have said, Let it be made, and it was created He spoke, and they were made? 1 so it is sufficient for the priest to say, " Hoc est corpus meum," and behold the bread is no longer bread, but the body of Jesus Christ. "The power of the priest," says St. Bernardine of Sienna," is the power of the divine person; for the transubstantiation of the bread requires as much power as the creation of the world." 2 And St. Augustine has written," O venerable sanctity of the hands! O happy function of the priest ! He that created (if I may say so) gave me the power to create him; and he that created me without me is himself created by me!" 3! As the Word of God created heaven and earth, so, says St. Jerome, the words of the priest create Jesus Christ." - The Dignity of the Priesthood”, by St. Alphonsus de Liguori, p. 11 - http://web.archive.org/web/201301201...tiesPriest.pdf

"... He has given him power over the body of Jesus Christ, he has placed in his hands the keys of paradise, he has raised him above all the kings of the earth, and above all the angels in heaven; in a word, he has made him, as it were, a God on earth: " A God on earth." ...

... 1 " Deus terrenus." ..." - The Dignity of the Priesthood”, by St. Alphonsus de Liguori, p. 26 - http://web.archive.org/web/201301201...tiesPriest.pdf
​

... to be continued ...

 

[One Baptism]

... continued ...

"In this moment, the priest quite literally becomes Christ Himself: his own personality is blotted out; it is absorbed in that of the everlasting priest who is, at one time, the offered victim and the supreme officiant." - This is The Mass, Henri Daniel-Rops, Fulton J. Sheen, Yousuf Karsh, trans. with annotations by Alastair Guinan, New York: Hawthorn Books, Inc., 1965. First ed. 1958, p. 118. Nihil Obstat: Robert E. Hunt, S.T. D., Censor Librorum. Imprimatur: Thomas A. Boland, S.T.D. Archbishop of Newark.

"… of the body and blood of the Lord under the species of bread and wine …

… Eucharistic worship is therefore precisely the expression of that love which is the authentic and deepest characteristic of the Christian vocation. …

… It has the appearance of bread and wine, that is to say of food and drink …

… In the encyclical Redemptor hominis(33) I have already drawn attention to the close link between the sacrament of Penance and the sacrament of the Eucharist. It is not only that Penance leads to the Eucharist, but that the Eucharist also leads to Penance. …

… There is a close link between this element of the Eucharist and its sacredness, that is to say, its being a holy and sacred action. Holy and sacred, because in it are the continual presence and action of Christ, "the Holy One" of God,(36) "anointed with the Holy Spirit,"(37) "consecrated by the Father"(38) to lay down His life of His own accord and to take it up again,(39) and the High Priest of the New Covenant.(40) For it is He who, represented by the celebrant, makes His entrance into the sanctuary and proclaims His Gospel. …

… The priest offers the holy Sacrifice in persona Christi; this means more than offering "in the name of' or "in place of' Christ. In persona means in specific sacramental identification with "the eternal High Priest"(42) who is the author and principal subject of this sacrifice of His, a sacrifice in which, in truth, nobody can take His place. …

… 9. The Eucharist is above all else a sacrifice. It is the sacrifice of the Redemption and also the sacrifice of the New Covenant,(46) ...

… All who participate with faith in the Eucharist become aware that it is a "sacrifice," that is to say, a "consecrated Offering." For the bread and wine presented at the altar and accompanied by the devotion and the spiritual sacrifices of the participants are finally consecrated, so as to become truly, really and substantially Christ's own body that is given up and His blood that is shed. Thus, by virtue of the consecration, the species of bread and wine re-present (50) in a sacramental, unbloody manner the bloody propitiatory sacrifice offered by Him on the cross to His Father for the salvation of the world. …

… Nevertheless, there are also those people who, having been educated on the basis of the old liturgy in Latin, experience the lack of this "one language," which in all the world was an expression of the unity of the Church and through its dignified character elicited a profound sense of the Eucharistic Mystery. It is therefore necessary to show not only understanding but also full respect towards these sentiments and desires. As far as possible these sentiments and desires are to be accommodated, as is moreover provided for in the new dispositions.(55) The Roman Church has special obligations towards Latin, the splendid language of ancient Rome, and she must manifest them whenever the occasion presents itself. ..." - LETTER; DOMINICAE CENAE; OF THE SUPREME PONTIFF; JOHN PAUL II; TO ALL THE BISHOPS OF THE CHURCH; ON THE MYSTERY AND WORSHIP; OF THE EUCHARIST - http://w2.vatican.va/content/john-pa...cae-cenae.html

“Hence Christ is present in the sacrament with His Flesh and Blood, Body and Soul, Humanity and Divinity. ...

... In the absence of Scriptural proof, the Church finds a warrant for, and a propriety in, rendering Divine worship to the Blessed Sacrament in the most ancient and constant tradition...” - Transubstantiation, Catholic Encyclopedia; - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: The Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist

“We believe that the Mass, celebrated by the priest representing the person of Christ by virtue of the power received through the Sacrament of Orders, and offered by him in the name of Christ and the members of His Mystical Body, is the sacrifice of Calvary rendered sacramentally present on our altars. We believe that as the bread and wine consecrated by the Lord at the Last Supper were changed into His body and His blood which were to be offered for us on the cross, likewise the bread and wine consecrated by the priest are changed into the body and blood of Christ enthroned gloriously in heaven, and we believe that the mysterious presence of the Lord, under what continues to appear to our senses as before, is a true, real and substantial presence. ...

... Christ cannot be thus present in this sacrament except by the change into His body of the reality itself of the bread and the change into His blood of the reality itself of the wine, leaving unchanged only the properties of the bread and wine which our senses perceive. This mysterious change is very appropriately called by the Church transubstantiation. Every theological explanation which seeks some understanding of this mystery must, in order to be in accord with Catholic faith, maintain that in the reality itself, independently of our mind, the bread and wine have ceased to exist after the Consecration, so that it is the adorable body and blood of the Lord Jesus that from then on are really before us under the sacramental species of bread and wine, as the Lord willed it, in order to give Himself to us as food and to associate us with the unity of His Mystical Body. ...

... The unique and indivisible existence of the Lord glorious in heaven is not multiplied, but is rendered present by the sacrament in the many places on earth where Mass is celebrated. And this existence remains present, after the sacrifice, in the Blessed Sacrament which is, in the tabernacle, the living heart of each of our churches. And it is our very sweet duty to honor and adore in the blessed Host which our eyes see, the Incarnate Word whom they cannot see, and who, without leaving heaven, is made present before us.” - The Credo of the People of God, Promulgated by Pope Paul VI on June 30, 1968, Catholic Encyclopedia, CATHOLIC LIBRARY: The Credo of the People of God (1968)
​

... to be continued ...

 

[One Baptism]

... continued ...

“It should go without saying--but we'll say it anyway--that there never can be any explicit denial of transubstantiation contained in the words used by the priest. He can't say such things as “This is my body if you accept it by faith” or “This is a symbol of my blood.” ...” - Quick Questions 1994, Catholic Encyclopedia Almanac, CATHOLIC LIBRARY: Quick Questions (1994)

“The priest says: Hoc est corpus meum, he has to say it for the validity of the consecration. Meum! But it is not he who says these words; his voice indeed we hear, but he is only the instrument of the Sovereign Priest: our Lord speaks through His minister. The glory of this minister consists precisely in disappearing, in allowing Jesus to act through his personality: Sacerdos alter Christus. This Christ now offering Himself to God by the hands of the priest is the same Christ who is in heaven. Same happiness, same power, same majesty. He is performing the same acts, offering the same adorations, the same thanksgiving, the same prayers. He, the object of the beatitude of the elect, is now in the hands of the priest: Agnoscite quod agitis. But if really the priest causes our Lord to be present on the altar, if he offers Him, whilst Jesus is now in heaven, have we not to conclude that it is from the very bosom of the Father that the priest draws this divine Victim? Agnoscite quod agitis.” - Our Priesthood, by the Rev. Joseph Bruneau, S.S.D.D.; Professor of Dogmatic Theology at St. Mary;s Seminary; Baltimore, MD.; B. Herder 17 South Broadway St. Louis, MO. 68 Great Russell St. LONDON, W.C. 1911 Nihil Obstat; M.F. Dinneen, S.S., D.D.; Censor deputatus; Imprimatur; [Maltese Cross] James Card. Gibbons; Baltimore; Feast of the Nativity of the Blessed Virgin; 1911 - https://archive.org/stream/ourpriest.../n156/mode/1up

"... Power of Consecrating

The third great power of the priestly office is the climax of all. It is the power of consecrating. "No act is greater," says saint Thomas, "than the consecration of the body of Christ." In this essential phase of the sacred ministry, the power of the priest is not surpassed by that of the bishop, the archbishop, the cardinal or the pope. Indeed it is equal to that of Jesus Christ. For in this role the priest speaks with the voice and the authority of God Himself.

When the priest pronounces the tremendous words of consecration, he reaches up into the heaven, brings Christ down from His throne, and places Him upon our altar to be offered up again as the victim for the sins of man. It is a power greater than that of monarchs and emperors. It is greater than that of saints and angels, greater than that of Seraphim and Cherubim. Indeed, it is greater than the power of the Virgin Mary. While the blessed virgin was the human agency by which Christ became incarnate a single time, the priest brings Christ down from heaven, and renders Him present on our altar as the eternal victim for the sins of man-not once, but, a thousand times! The priest speaks and lo! Christ the eternal and omnipotent God, bows His head in humble obedience to the priest's command.

[pg.271] Of what sublime dignity is the office of the Christian priest who is thus privileged to act as the ambassador and the vicegerent of Christ on earth. He continues the essential ministry of Christ - he teaches the faithful with the authority of Christ, he offers up again the same sacrifice of adoration and atonement which Christ offered on Calvary. No wonder that the name which spiritual writers are especially fond of applying to the priest is that of "alter Christus." For the priest is and should be another Christ. ..." - Faith of Millions, by Reverend John A. O'brien, Copyright 1938, published by Our Sunday Visitor, Huntington Indiana, - HOC EST ENIM CORPUS MEUM or What does the word Vatican mean? also found in [Several sources link]
​

Now that we have seen the official Roman Catholic position, let us consider in detail the scriptural [KJB] position, and compare, to see if they are in harmony, or diametrically opposed.

 

[One Baptism]

According to the Roman Catholic Dogma of the "Transubstantiation" the "elements" of the "Bread" and [fermented/"intoxicating"] "wine" remain outwardly in appearance as 'food' [bread] and 'drink' [wine], yet the are to be believed by the Roman Catholic faithful to actually be "under the auspices of" those outward "elements" the actual "sacrifice", the actual "body" [flesh] and "blood" of the LORD Jesus Christ upon Calvary.

In fact, since Romanism teaches that the 'Eucharist' is a 'sacrifice', it is then dead flesh, and dead blood, verily it is blasphemous necrotic cannibalistic vampirism on a continuous cycle. The Roman Catholic, according to the "Dogma", must believe, by Faith, in the heart, that what they are eating and drinking is literally flesh and literally blood, under the elements. That is gross sin, according to the Bible.

Please take notice, that they are actually to believe they are eating the human flesh and the human blood of the Passover Sacrifice - Jesus... which Scripture forbids. In fact, some actually turn to blood in the mouth of the receiver [as Julia Kim, etc].

Blood, was Never to be eaten:

Genesis 9:4 KJB - But flesh with the life thereof, [which is] the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.

Exodus 23:18 KJB - Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leavened bread; neither shall the fat of my sacrifice remain until the morning.

Exodus 34:25 KJB - Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven; neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning.​

The Blood of the Sacrifice, never to be eaten upon any occasion, was also never to be offered with any leaven/fermentation at all upon the Passover days - no alcohol for it is a drink of corruption, of the table of Belial.

In fact, the Passover, all leaven [representing sin] was to be completely removed from the vicinity [Seven days shall there be no leaven found in your houses: for whosoever eateth that which is leavened, even that soul shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he be a stranger, or born in the land. Exodus 12:19].

It was a type of the perfect sinlessness of Christ Jesus, and to be the "pure blood of the grape" [Deuteronomy 32:24], even the "fruit of the vine". Who will dare to presume to equate His righteous blood with a drink of Belial?

Leviticus 3:17 KJB - [It shall be] a perpetual statute for your generations throughout all your dwellings, that ye eat neither fat nor blood.

Leviticus 4:18 KJB - And he shall put [some] of the blood upon the horns of the altar which [is] before the LORD, that [is] in the tabernacle of the congregation, and shall pour out all the blood at the bottom of the altar of the burnt offering, which [is at] the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.

Leviticus 4:30 KJB - "And the priest shall ... shall pour out all the blood thereof at the bottom of the altar."

Leviticus 4:34 KJB - And the priest shall take of the blood of the sin offering with his finger, and put [it] upon the horns of the altar of burnt offering, and shall pour out all the blood thereof at the bottom of the altar:

Leviticus 5:9 KJB - And he shall sprinkle of the blood of the sin offering upon the side of the altar; and the rest of the blood shall be wrung out at the bottom of the altar: it [is] a sin offering.

Leviticus 6:30 KJB - And no sin offering, whereof [any] of the blood is brought into the tabernacle of the congregation to reconcile [withal] in the holy [place], shall be eaten: it shall be burnt in the fire.​

In many cases, if the blood was not sprinkled upon some part of the Sanctuary furniture, horns of the altar, before the veil, etc, generally all the blood was to be poured out upon the ground, and if some was sprinkled, all the remainder was poured out upon the ground, and in some other cases burned upon the altar.

Leviticus 7:26 KJB - Moreover ye shall eat no manner of blood, [whether it be] of fowl or of beast, in any of your dwellings.

Leviticus 7:27 KJB - Whatsoever soul [it be] that eateth any manner of blood, even that soul shall be cut off from his people.

Leviticus 8:15 KJB - And he slew [it]; and Moses took the blood, and put [it] upon the horns of the altar round about with his finger, and purified the altar, and poured the blood at the bottom of the altar, and sanctified it, to make reconciliation upon it.

Leviticus 9:9 KJB - And the sons of Aaron brought the blood unto him: and he dipped his finger in the blood, and put [it] upon the horns of the altar, and poured out the blood at the bottom of the altar:

Leviticus 17:10 KJB - And whatsoever man [there be] of the house of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, that eateth any manner of blood; I will even set my face against that soul that eateth blood, and will cut him off from among his people.​

Notice that text, and take it to heart. The LORD will set His face against any one that eateth the blood, and cut him off.

Leviticus 17:11 KJB - For the life of the flesh [is] in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it [is] the blood [that] maketh an atonement for the soul.

Leviticus 17:12 KJB - Therefore I said unto the children of Israel, No soul of you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger that sojourneth among you eat blood.

Leviticus 17:13 KJB - And whatsoever man [there be] of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, which hunteth and catcheth any beast or fowl that may be eaten; he shall even pour out the blood thereof, and cover it with dust.

Leviticus 17:14 KJB - For [it is] the life of all flesh; the blood of it [is] for the life thereof: therefore I said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life of all flesh [is] the blood thereof: whosoever eateth it shall be cut off.​

Notice that text and take it to heart. If any deliberately eat the blood of any manner of flesh, it is sin, literally, or by belief/faith, it is the same, for the conscience is then involved, and God's Word says that person shall be "cut off", and it means "cut off" of Eternal Life, as the type pointed to the anti-type.

Leviticus 19:26 KJB - Ye shall not eat [any thing] with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, nor observe times.

Numbers 19:5 KJB - And [one] shall burn the heifer in his sight; her skin, and her flesh, and her blood, with her dung, shall he burn:

Deuteronomy 12:16 KJB - Only ye shall not eat the blood; ye shall pour it upon the earth as water.​

The blood was to be poured upon the earth, never taken into the human digestive system.

 

[One Baptism]

Deuteronomy 12:23 KJB - Only be sure that thou eat not the blood: for the blood [is] the life; and thou mayest not eat the life with the flesh.​

Even, more striking is this verse, which says that the blood, wherein is the life thereof, was never to be eaten with the flesh.

Deuteronomy 12:24 KJB - Thou shalt not eat it; thou shalt pour it upon the earth as water.

Deuteronomy 12:25 KJB - Thou shalt not eat it; that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee, when thou shalt do [that which is] right in the sight of the LORD.

Deuteronomy 12:27 KJB - And thou shalt offer thy burnt offerings, the flesh and the blood, upon the altar of the LORD thy God: and the blood of thy sacrifices shall be poured out upon the altar of the LORD thy God, and thou shalt eat the flesh.

Deuteronomy 15:23 KJB - Only thou shalt not eat the blood thereof; thou shalt pour it upon the ground as water.​

A case of sin:

1 Samuel 14:32 KJB - And the people flew upon the spoil, and took sheep, and oxen, and calves, and slew [them] on the ground: and the people did eat [them] with the blood.

1 Samuel 14:33 KJB - Then they told Saul, saying, Behold, the people sin against the LORD, in that they eat with the blood. And he said, Ye have transgressed: roll a great stone unto me this day.

1 Samuel 14:34 KJB - And Saul said, Disperse yourselves among the people, and say unto them, Bring me hither every man his ox, and every man his sheep, and slay [them] here, and eat; and sin not against the LORD in eating with the blood. And all the people brought every man his ox with him that night, and slew [them] there.​

For "dogs" lick the blood [1 Kings 21:19, 22:38], and outside of New Jerusalem are "dogs" [Revelation 22:15].

Notice, it is sin to eat with the blood.

2 Kings 16:15 KJB - And king Ahaz commanded Urijah the priest, saying, Upon the great altar burn the morning burnt offering, and the evening meat offering, and the king's burnt sacrifice, and his meat offering, with the burnt offering of all the people of the land, and their meat offering, and their drink offerings; and sprinkle upon it all the blood of the burnt offering, and all the blood of the sacrifice: and the brasen altar shall be for me to enquire [by].​

[King] David [type of Christ], acknowledges this in a type of language [like a metaphor] used of men which sacrificed their life, their blood, for a drink [cup] of water:

2 Samuel 23:7 KJB - And he said, Be it far from me, O LORD, that I should do this: [is not this] the blood of the men that went in jeopardy of their lives? therefore he would not drink it. These things did these three mighty men.

1 Chronicles 11:19 KJB - And said, My God forbid it me, that I should do this thing: shall I drink the blood of these men that have put their lives in jeopardy? for with [the jeopardy of] their lives they brought it. Therefore he would not drink it. These things did these three mightiest.​

Will God drink the blood?

Psalms 50:13 KJB - Will I eat the flesh of bulls, or drink the blood of goats?​

Who is to be drunken with the blood [metaphor]? The wicked.

Isaiah 49:26 KJB - And I will feed them that oppress thee with their own flesh; and they shall be drunken with their own blood, as with sweet wine: and all flesh shall know that I the LORD [am] thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.​

What do the wicked do?

Ezekiel 24:7 KJB - For her blood is in the midst of her; she set it upon the top of a rock; she poured it not upon the ground, to cover it with dust;​

All the wicked of the end shall be a feast for the birds, where the eagles are gathered, there the carcase [Matthew 24:28; Luke 17:37], a judgment upon the wicked:

Ezekiel 39:17 KJB - And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, [even] a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.

Ezekiel 39:18 KJB - Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.

Ezekiel 39:19 KJB - And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.

Zechariah 9:4 KJB - And I will take away his blood out of his mouth, and his abominations from between his teeth: but he that remaineth, even he, [shall be] for our God, and he shall be as a governor in Judah, and Ekron as a Jebusite.​

Do any think that this is merely an OT thing for Jews? No, they are written for us Christians [Romans 15:4; 1 Corinthians 10:11]. Even in the NT, see the council of Jersualem, Acts 15.

Acts 15:20 KJB - But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and [from] fornication, and [from] things strangled, and [from] blood.

Acts 15:29 KJB - That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Acts 21:25 KJB - “As touching the Gentiles which believe ... that they keep themselves from [things] offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.”​

Indeed. In fact we can look most closely and see that what is given in Acts 15, re-iterates the perfect diet plan of God, where in James cites the OT Scriptures [Leviticus 7:26, 17:12-14, 19:26; Deuteronomy 12:16,23, 15:23], under guidance of the Holy Spirit:

Acts 15:14 KJB - Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

Acts 15:15 KJB - And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

Acts 15:16 KJB - After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

Acts 15:17 KJB - That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

Acts 15:18 KJB - Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.​

See:

Amos 9:11 KJB - In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:

Amos 9:12 KJB - That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the LORD that doeth this.​

Then we see James, and the councils sentence:

Acts 15:19 KJB - Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

Acts 15:20 KJB - But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and [from] fornication, and [from] things strangled, and [from] blood.

Acts 15:21 KJB - For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Acts 15:28 KJB - For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

Acts 15:29 KJB - That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.​

Confirmed by the Law and also the Prophets:

Acts 15:32 KJB - And Judas and Silas, being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brethren with many words, and confirmed [them].​

This was later again confirmed, in the mouth of two or three witnesses in Scripture:

Acts 21:25 KJB - As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written [and] concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from [things] offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.​

This, even in the context of that which was sacrificed. No Christian is to ever eat of those things. Ever.

There is a "woman" in prophecy which does drink "blood", and she is "drunken" from it, and causes the world also to become so:

Revelation 17:6 KJB - And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.​

The Hebrew word for “eat” in these passages is “'akal” “אכל” and it means “eat, consume, devour, destroy by eating” (Strong's).

Jesus' blood poured out upon the ground:

Luke 22:44 KJB - And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

John 19:34 KJB - But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.

Acts 20:28 KJB - "... he hath purchased with his own blood."​

That precious "blood of the Lamb", "For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us" [1 Corinthians 5:7], even whose blood was spilled upon the ground.

 

[One Baptism]

John 6:

The Jews Religious Leaders and people in Jesus time, and especially as noted in the Gospel of John, were consistently misunderstanding the "dark sayings" [Psalms 78:2; Proverbs 1:6] of Jesus [Mark 4:34; John 10:6, etc].

Before we can look at John 6, we need to go back to John 1 and begin reading from the start so that we do not follow in the same mistakes [and if we really wanted to do justice to John 6, we would start in Genesis 1

]:

[1] John 1:19-25, wherein the priests and Levites of the Pharisees were sent unto John the Baptist and asked him who he was, “Who art thou?” [John 1:19], and then after John denies being “the Christ” [John 1:20], they asked him further if instead he was one of the prophesied persons, “Art thou Elias?”, “Art thou that prophet?” [John 1:21], to which John says, “”No.”, and points them to Isaiah 40:3; Malachi 3:1 [John 1:23; see also Matthew 3:3; Mark 1:3; Luke 3:4]. They, being puzzled over this ask, “Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?” [John 1:25].

How then can the reply of John the Baptist to the question, “Art thou Elias?” [John 1:21], of which he said, “No.” [John 1:21], square with what Jesus said of him, for Jesus said that John the Baptist was indeed that “Elias” [Elijah] who was to come at the first Advent? See:

Matthew 11:14 KJB - And if ye will receive [it], this is Elias, which was for to come.

Matthew 17:10 KJB - And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?

Matthew 17:11 KJB - And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.

Matthew 17:12 KJB - But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

Mark 9:11 KJB - And they asked him, saying, Why say the scribes that Elias must first come?

Mark 9:12 KJB - And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought.

Mark 9:13 KJB - But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him.​

The answer lay in the following text:

Luke 1:17 KJB - And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.​

Now, they misunderstood John's reply to their question, because their question was asking the wrong thing, for they had misunderstood the words of the prophesy in Malachi 4:5, and looked for the actual translated person of Elijah [2 Kings 2:1-25] to return unto them, and this is seen throughout the Scriptures of just such an expectation [Matthew 16:14, 27:47,49; Mark 6:15, 8:28, 15:35,36; Luke 9:7,8,18,19; John 1:21,25], though he [translated and glorified, along with the resurrected and glorified Moses] did literally return to the promised land in a special manner and stand on the Mount of Transfiguration before Jesus, Peter, James and John [Matthew 17:3,4,8; Mark 9:4,5,8,9; Luke 9:30-33,36].

They, the Jewish religious leaders and peoples, had misunderstood the words and so their expectations were incorrect.

Herein is the central issue, for this same thing continues to happen throughout the Gospel of John, wherein they have misunderstanding of the prophecies and of the words of the prophets, and of the words of Jesus, and so have incorrect conclusions and actions.

[1. Subset A] A further instance of this, is the Triumphal Entry of Jesus into Jerusalem [Matthew 21:9,15; Mark 11:9,10; Luke 19:35-40; John 12:12,13], wherein the people think He is coming to proclaim Himself their Earthly King, in what they misunderstood in regards the prophecy of Zechariah 9:9:

John 12:12 KJB - On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,

John 12:13 KJB - Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed [is] the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.​

Yet Jesus, had told them over and over that His Kingdom, at this point was to be one that began inwardly, in the Spirit [Matthew 13:19], of Grace [Luke 19:41-44; John 18:36; later Hebrews 4:16] and the outward Physical Kingdom to come later, and even the Disciples still had not understood after the Resurrection of Jesus [Acts 1:6].

[1. Subset B] This mindset was already among the people, all the way back from the beginning, even seen in John 6:

John 6:15 KJB - When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force, to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone.​

They were constantly confused between the spiritual and physical understandings. They continually took the spiritual and understood them in the literal, often, to their own disappointment.

Even John the Baptist himself had not at first understood the Kingdom Jesus was ushering in, even though he was preaching that very Kingdom, and was already living it, in simplicity:

Matthew 11:2 KJB - Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples,

Matthew 11:3 KJB - And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another?

Luke 7:17 KJB - And this rumour of him went forth throughout all Judaea, and throughout all the region round about.

Luke 7:18 KJB - And the disciples of John shewed him of all these things.

Luke 7:19 KJB - And John calling [unto him] two of his disciples sent [them] to Jesus, saying, Art thou he that should come? or look we for another?

Luke 7:20 KJB - When the men were come unto him, they said, John Baptist hath sent us unto thee, saying, Art thou he that should come? or look we for another?

Luke 7:21 KJB - And in that same hour he cured many of [their] infirmities and plagues, and of evil spirits; and unto many [that were] blind he gave sight.

Luke 7:22 KJB - Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached.

Luke 7:23 KJB - And blessed is [he], whosoever shall not be offended in me.​

...to be continued...

 

[One Baptism]

Romanism [even Jesuitism], continally takes that which is Literal [as Genesis] and makes of it into nothing but allegory, and takes that which is given in symbol [Revelation 1:1 KJB, 'signified'], and makes of it Literal. All that has been done is a swap.

Moving onward ...

[2] John 2:19-22, wherein Jesus speaks of the "Temple" and the Jewish leaders thought Jesus meant the stone building they were presently standing in:

Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. John 2:19

Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? John 2:20

But he spake of the temple of his body. John 2:21

When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said. John 2:22
​

Again, the notice the mindset. What did they think when Jesus said what he said? Did they understand what He stated? No, because of the carnal mind, not understanding the Heavenly things.

 

[One Baptism]

[3] Nicodemus, in John 3, is then another example, he being a religious leader in Israel, also misunderstanding Jesus words by making the word "born" refer to physical birth, fleshly birth.

We see that Jesus stated the word "born", and then Nicodemus, misunderstands that word and runs with it, and thinks "born" [automatically] = "womb". [for Jesus never states that in John 3, at all]

However, notice that he [Nicodemus] does not say 'first time', but rather he says the "second time" in regards to "womb", and previously says, "when he is old" [iow, 'grown'], not when he is 'in utero'. Therefore, even Nicodemus fully knew that Jesus was not speaking of the "water" of the "womb" of the first birth and of taking breath [air], but Jesus was clearly speaking of being "born again", that is a second time by "Water" and Jesus also includes also by the Holy "Spirit" in the definition. When mankind is born, they are born the first time of the "flesh", and that which is "born of the flesh is flesh", which would include the 'womb' water of the first birth.

What does “born of the water” mean? Does it mean from the womb, or water Baptism? We come to see that Nicodemus came to Jesus by night, clandestinely, and enquired of Jesus and Jesus directly moved past everything and said,

“Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” [vs 3].​

Now, Nicodemus, attempting to redirect, spoke of the “womb”, but this was not what Christ Jesus was referring to at all:

John 3:4 KJB - Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?​

It was Nicodemus that has the misunderstanding about what Jesus stated. Therefore Jesus clarifies what it means to be “born again” in the very next verse, by reiterating what He had just said in another way:

John 3:5 KJB - Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.​

Notice again from the beginning:

John 3:1 KJB - There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

John 3:2 KJB - The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

John 3:3 KJB - Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

John 3:4 KJB - Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

John 3:5 KJB - Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

John 3:6 KJB - That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

John 3:7 KJB - Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

John 3:8 KJB - The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.​

Notice the parallels, chiasm:

[vs 3] “Jesus...”
[vs 5] “Jesus...”


[vs 3] “...answered...”
[vs 5] “...answered...”


[vs 3] “...Verily, verily...”
[vs 5] “...Verily, verily...”
[vs 7] “...Marvel not that...”


[vs 3] “...I say unto thee...”
[vs 5] “...I say unto thee...”
[vs 7] “...I said unto thee...”


[vs 3] “...Except a man...”
[vs 5] “...Except a man...”
[vs 7] “...Ye must...”


[vs 3] “...be...”
[vs 5] “...be...”
[vs 7] “...be...”


[vs 3] “...born again...”
[vs 5] “...born of the water and [of] the Spirit...”
[vs 7] “...born again...”


[vs 3] “...he cannot...”
[vs 5] “...he cannot...”


[vs 3] “...see...”
[vs 5] “...enter into...”


[vs 3] “...the Kingdom of God.”
[vs 5] “...the Kingdom of God.”​

Now contrast the fleshy:

[vs 4] “... How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born...”
[vs 6] “...That which is born of the flesh is flesh...”​

Now, there parallelism, or chiastic structure of John 3, vs 3-5, reveal that Jesus is speaking about what “born again” means, and it means to be “born of the water and [of] the Spirit”. This is directly speaking about water [immersion] baptism [repentance] and the Holy Spirit [baptism, known as the Baptism of Fire]. This is not speaking about being born of the “womb”, since no man is “born again” from the womb.

Matthew 3:11 KJB - I indeed baptize you with waterunto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Luke 3:16 KJB - John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:​

...to be continued ...

 

[One Baptism]

... continued ...

Notice, please:

Mark 1:4 KJB - John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Luke 3:3 KJB - And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

Acts 13:24 KJB - When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.

Acts 19:4 KJB - Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.​

Then going back to John 3, notice that Jesus then directly responds to Nicodemus remark about the “womb”, by saying:

John 3:6 KJB - That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.​

Then Jesus goes back to once again speaking about being “born again”:

John 3:7 KJB - Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.​

Therefore, the verses themselves dictate what Jesus was speaking about in their order:

[vs 3] Jesus mentions that we all need to be “born again”

[vs 4] Nicodemus mentions the “womb”​

[vs 5] Jesus mentions in chiastic structure that to be “born again” is to be “born of the water and [of] the Spirit”, which precisely matches vs 3.

[vs 6] Jesus returns to Nicodemus comment about a fleshly matter, by saying, “That which is born of the flesh is flesh”, and thus eliminates the “womb” [vs 4] from the picture about being “born again”, for every man after Adam was born of the womb [even if C-section].​

[vs 7] Jesus then again mentions “born again”

Please read all of the Book of Acts and Romans 6 very carefully and prayerfully, as water Baptism is required, for those which know and are able; and to refuse water [immersion] baptism in such conditions, is death, for it is refusal/rejection of the command of Jesus/God against oneself, even as the Pharisees refused [Luke 7:30; Psalms 107:11]. A very dangerous and deadly thing to do, for to him that knoweth to do good and doeth it not, to him it is sin [James 4:17].

Acts 2:37 KJB - Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Acts 2:38 KJB - Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.​

Biblical Immersion [total, ex.; “much water” John 3:23; “they went down both into the water … baptized ...” Acts 8:38; “baptized, went up straightway out of the water” Mark 3:16; The world in type by water and then to be by fire; “standing out of the water and in the water” 2 Peter 3:5; “overflowed with water” 2 Peter 3:6] by Water in Baptism, is a symbol of not only of death, but also Burial and Rising to New Life, see Romans 6:3-5, etc.

Again, notice the examples of the person which "repented" in Scripture in the NT itself. They were all [whom were able & knowing] fully immersed in water.

See the thousands at Pentecost [Acts 2:38-42], see the Ethiopian Eunuch [Acts 8], see Cornelius/friends [Acts 10-11], see Lydia [Acts 16:15], see the Roman Guard [Acts 16:30-36], Crispus [Acts 18:8], others which hadn't yet heard about Jesus [Acts 19], Saul/Paul himself [Acts 22:16], Crispus, Gais, Household of Stephanas [1 Corinthians 1:14-16] etc, etc. You see the Book of Acts is primarily the Book of the Laver, even as the Gospels were the primary Books of the Altar of Sacrifice. You see, in the pattern of the Sanctuary, is given the plan of Salvation, even as the Laver of Water [and blood, mixed, as a Birth] follows the Sacrifice [even as blood and water came out of the side of Jesus].

It is Christ Jesus that saves. It is one's absolute and willing rejection of His clear Command and Example, when Light comes and is continually and ultimately rejected [John 3:19; Hosea 4:6], that causes one to reject Him and so be lost. Even as the Pharisees rejected the counsel of God against themselves, not being Baptized [Luke 7:30].

...to be continued, but again please notice, that the Religious Leaders and Jews in common, even Disciples were constantly mistaking Jesus spiritual words, for physical matters, fleshly matters...

There is much more in the conversation with Nicodemus, the Heavenly mind [when Jesus says, even the Son of Man which is in Heaven], vs the carnal earthly mind [ye must be born again, for only the fallen earthly peoples need this, not the unfallen Heavenly] but that will be for another time [as wells as the nature of Christ's Flesh [fallen, condemned sin "in the flesh"] and His spirit [unfallen, "knew no sin"], for a key verse was given in John 3].

 

[One Baptism]

[4] Another example in John 4:7-15 with the Samaritan woman at the well, who when speaking with Jesus misunderstand the “water” to be physical water, when Jesus was speaking of the Spiritual life-giving waters:

There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink. John 4:7

(For his disciples were gone away unto the city to buy meat.) John 4:8

Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans. John 4:9

Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water. John 4:10

The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water? John 4:11

Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle? John 4:12

Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: John 4:13

But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life. John 4:14

The woman saith unto him, Sir, give me this water, that I thirst not, neither come hither to draw. John 4:15​

See:

John 7:38 KJB - He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

John 7:39 KJB - (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet [given]; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
​

Again, notice the confusion between the literal and the spiritual.

 

[One Baptism]

Yet another [5] example appears in the same Chapter of John 4:31-34, even the Disciples misunderstand Jesus yet again, when Jesus spoke of Spiritual “meat” [food; doing the will of God], and they thought of physical “meat” [food]:

In the mean while his disciples prayed him, saying, Master, eat. John 4:31

But he said unto them, I have meat to eat that ye know not of. John 4:32

Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat? John 4:33

Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work. John 4:34
​

Again, what happened to the understanding? What was misunderstood?

 

[One Baptism]

And still [6] again in John 6:50-52, etc [throughout], we find that the Jews again misunderstand Jesus, in that they think He is speaking of physical, even fleshly “flesh” and “blood” [which is exactly what Roman Catholicism does today!], yet He was speaking of Spiritual, not Physical:

This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. John 6:50

I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. John 6:51

The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? John 6:52​

And further throughout the Scriptures, [6] Matthew 16:5-12, etc, etc, and including today's person, that totally misunderstand Jesus and even Paul on who "Israel" actually is. See Hosea 11:1; Matthew 2:15. "Israel" is a Spiritual name, given to a singular person [Jacob] originally, who in God's strength overcame with God. They do not make distinction, as the Bible does, between "Israel after the flesh" [I Corinthians 10:18; Romans 9:3,4], and the Spiritual "Israel of God" [Galatians 6:14-16; Romans 9:6]. Read Isaiah 41:8, see Galatians 3:28-29, then see Galatians 3:7, then Matthew 3:7-10, then John 1:47. Then continue with Hosea 11:1, followed by Matthew 2:1-15, then read in this order Exodus 4:22; Psalms 80:8; Isaiah 49:3; Isaiah 42:1-3; Isaiah 41:8, and complete again with Hosea 11:1, Matthew 2:15. Then turn to Hebrews 8:8-10; Revelation 7:4, 22:1, and read Hebrews 2:10 and turn to Isaiah 8:13-20, 56;1-8; John 10:16; finally Exodus 31:16 ["children" and "sons" are the key words in the last two verses].

They which make the same mistakes as these examples, then do the same unto Daniel and Revelation, especially Revelation, taking the Literal names, Jezebel, Balaam, Gog and Magog and think they are speaking of something present in the middle east/palestine area somewhere, when they are merely references to an OT event in type, to help understand the much greater event about to happen... those which are looking for events in the middle east, are deceived, and are looking in the wrong direction. I would recommend as a read for helpful tips, [End-time delusions, by Steve Wholberg], or Exploding the Israel Deception, by the same, for further material if one likes to read.

... but now let us delve into John 6 [after having read up to John 6, from John 1, and all the confusion between the spiritual and the literal] itself more deeply [yet with one more stop over in Exodus], after this pattern of the Religious leaders, Jews in common and even Disciples totally misunderstand Jesus' words in their spiritual meaning [symbolic, heavenly] and apply a physical [non-symbolic, fleshly, etc] meaning in their place.

 

[One Baptism]

ANTI-TYPE OF MANNA; SCRIPTURE:

Sixth Day [14th Nisan], the Seventh Day [15th Nisan] and the First Day [16th Nisan]...

First let us see the Type in Exodus 16 [compare also to Joshua 5; Leviticus 23]:

“I have heard the murmurings of the children of Israel: speak unto them, saying, At even ye shall eat flesh, and in the morning ye shall be filled with bread; and ye shall know that I am the LORD your God.” Exodus 16:12

“And it came to pass, that at even the quails came up, and covered the camp: and in the morning the dew lay round about the host.” Exodus 16:13

“And when the dew that lay was gone up, behold, upon the face of the wilderness there lay a small round thing, as small as the hoar frost on the ground.” Exodus 16:14

“And when the children of Israel saw it, they said one to another, It is manna: for they wist not what it was. And Moses said unto them, This is the bread which the LORD hath given you to eat.” Exodus 16:15

“This is the thing which the LORD hath commanded, Gather of it every man according to his eating, an omer for every man, according to the number of your persons; take ye every man for them which are in his tents.” Exodus 16:16

“And the children of Israel did so, and gathered, some more, some less.” Exodus 16:17

“And when they did mete it with an omer, he that gathered much had nothing over, and he that gathered little had no lack; they gathered every man according to his eating.” Exodus 16:18

“And Moses said, Let no man leave of it till the morning.” Exodus 16:19

“Notwithstanding they hearkened not unto Moses; but some of them left of it until the morning, and it bred worms, and stank: and Moses was wroth with them.” Exodus 16:20

“And they gathered it every morning, every man according to his eating: and when the sun waxed hot, it melted.” Exodus 16:21

“And it came to pass, thaton the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses.” Exodus 16:22

“And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.” Exodus 16:23

“And they laid it up till the morning, as Moses bade: and it did not stink, neither was there any worm therein.” Exodus 16:24

“And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the LORD: to day ye shall not find it in the field.” Exodus 16:25

“Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which isthe sabbath, in it there shall be none.” Exodus 16:26

“And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none.” Exodus 16:27

“And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?” Exodus 16:28

“See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.” Exodus 16:29

“So the people rested on the seventh day.” Exodus 16:30

“And the house of Israel called the name thereof Manna: and it was like coriander seed, white; and the taste of it was like wafers made with honey.” Exodus 16:31

“And Moses said, This is the thing which the LORD commandeth, Fill an omer of it to be kept for your generations; that they may see the bread wherewith I have fed you in the wilderness, when I brought you forth from the land of Egypt.” Exodus 16:32

“And Moses said unto Aaron, Take a pot, and put an omer full of manna therein, and lay it up before the LORD, to be kept for your generations.” Exodus 16:33

“As the LORD commanded Moses, so Aaron laid it up before the Testimony, to be kept.” Exodus 16:34

“And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.” Deuteronomy 8:3

“But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.” Matthew 4:4

“And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.” Luke 4:4

“Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope.” Psalms 16:9

“For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.” Psalms 16:10

“That he should still live for ever, and not see corruption.” Psalms 49:9

“Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.” Acts 2:27

“He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.” Acts 2:31

“God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.” Acts 13:33

“And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.” Acts 13:34

“Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.” Acts 13:35

“For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:” Acts 13:36

“But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.” Acts 13:37​

Jesus is the Anti-type of the Manna. The Manna was but pointing to 'every word [the Ten Commandments, the "word"] of God, doth man live by', for even as Jesus lives by every word of the Father, so too we to live by every word of Jesus, and to keep His Commandments [John 14:15; Exodus 20:6]...

The Manna was literally bread from Heaven, first the Natural.

Jesus is the spiritual bread [even the Word of the Father] from Heaven, the spiritual, as 1 Corinthians 15:44-46 KJB teaches.

1 Corinthians 15:46 KJB - Howbeit that [was] not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
​

But what does Romanism teach?, the opposite, the reversal of the teaching.

 

[One Baptism]

John Chapter 6,

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.” John 6:63

“As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.” John 6:57

“Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.” John 6:27​

What is this "meat which endureth"?

It is the "words" that Jesus speaks to us. That is eternal life. What must we do about His "words", his teachings?

We must "believe on Him" [Jesus] whom the Father has sent and do as He commands [John 14:15; Exodus 20:6].

“Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.” John 6:29

“And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.” John 6:40

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.” John 6:47​

However, many of the crowd simply did not want to believe in/on Jesus as the Messiah, the Son of God, being God, the I AM [especially as the only way] without some great sign, even though a little earlier they had all just been fed and been full physically from so very little bread and fish. They wanted a way in salvation apart from Jesus, they wanted a way of works, not of faith which works.

They did not want to understand that "He came down from Heaven" and said, "Is not this...the son of Joseph?" They did not want to take Jesus on faith. He is the living Manna, and His words are Life!

Jesus pointed out that even those who had been fed from miraculous manna from heaven, all had still died [and are still dead to this day, awaiting their resurrection "at the last day"; John 6:40], but those who believed on Him, the True manna, He says would not permanantly die in the 2nd death, but would sleep in death until their resurrection and would live forever, neither thirst, nor hunger.

“And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.” John 6:35

“I am that bread of life.” John 6:48

“This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.” John 6:58​

Not as their fathers who ate the flakes, physical wafers of manna, but truly Christ Jesus is the living “Bread”, the "Way", "Truth" and "Life". We must believe on Him unto salvation, and follow in His steps by His grace, obey His words, practice [do] what He says.

Jesus was speaking of Himself as the Messiah and Saviour, thus speaking Himself as the Messiah, the very Son of God, to believe upon and the example to follow:

“This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.” John 6:50​

Jesus human "Flesh" and "Blood" did not come down from heaven, but He and His doctrine, His Way have.

Notice how Jesus Himself lives, "by the Father" [even as he says, "...I have meat to eat that ye know not of." John 4:32; and what was this "meat"?

"My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work." John 4:32], and so likewise we, also, by Him by heeding His words, following His example and keeping/doing His Commandments [Ten Commandments]:

“As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.” John 6:57​

That is eats [takes them into the daily Life, by imbibing, reading, assimiliating and doing His teachings], of His Word...

Jesus makes it abundantly clear that His words are Spirit:

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.” John 6:63
​

Peter, himself, acknowledges that Jesus has the Words of Life because that He is the Messiah:

“Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.” John 6:68
​

Jesus makes known who did not have eternal life and why they did not, it was because they believed not on Him, as the Christ, even though they had seen Him and the works He performed:

“But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.” John 6:35
​

And the entirety of the Chapter of John 6 is summed up in this one verse:

And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God. John 6:69
​

That is the whole point of John 6, declaring Jesus to be the Christ, the Son of God, from personal experience and personal acknowledgment, and to follow Him.

That is why there are two stacks of 6 loaves in the sanctuary, one set for Jesus living by the word of the Father, and one set for man living by the word of Jesus, one place for the Father upon the throne, the other place for the Son upon the throne, beside the Father.

 

[One Baptism]

John 6 is focusing on who is "the Christ, the Son of the living God" and who "believe[d]" "on Him" and who did not.

It is Belief in Christ Jesus as the "Son of the living God", the Messiah, the Christ, God manifest in the likeness of the human sinful flesh, the sent of the Father, the Saviour, etc that is the focus.

“And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” John 17:3​

We are to "eat" and "drink" His words, for they are spirit and are life, and the flesh profiteth nothing.

Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 1 Corinthians 10:1

And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 1 Corinthians 10:2

And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 1 Corinthians 10:3

And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 1 Corinthians 10:4

But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. 1 Corinthians 10:5

The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? John 6:52​

And Moses said, This shall be, when the LORD shall give you in the evening flesh to eat, and in the morning bread to the full; for that the LORD heareth your murmurings which ye murmur against him: and what are we? your murmurings are not against us, but against the LORD. Exodus 16:8

And the mixt multitude that was among them fell a lusting: and the children of Israel also wept again, and said, Who shall give us flesh to eat? Numbers 11:4

Whence should I have flesh to give unto all this people? for they weep unto me, saying, Give us flesh, that we may eat. Numbers 11:13

And say thou unto the people, Sanctify yourselves against to morrow, and ye shall eat flesh: for ye have wept in the ears of the LORD, saying, Who shall give us flesh to eat? for it was well with us in Egypt: therefore the LORD will give you flesh, and ye shall eat. Numbers 11:18​

We see that Christ is the True manna, even the Word of God [John 1:1], the Bread that came down from Heaven. Just as the bread was for 6 days and on the 7th it was not to be found in the field [which is a symbol of the world; Matthew 13:38], so too Christ was not found in the world, being buried in the Tomb. Though Christ was dead, and buried, His flesh did not see corruption on the 7th Day, even as the Manna saw no corruption on the 7th Day.

On the very next day, being the first [day] of the week, we see Christ Jesus arisen from the dead, and preserved forever, never to see corruption, nor death again, and so too likewise the Manna which was uncorrupted was gathered into the Golden Pot, and placed before the Ark [symbol of the Throne of God], even as Christ Jesus ascended that very morning for the first time to the Father.

Like the mistaken Pharisaical Jews of Old, the Roman Catholic dogma, seeks to make of Christ's spiritual words, into a fleshly, carnal, physical "flesh" and "blood".

What is worse, is that they presently believe, as I used to believe, even by faith that those physical elements, were actually the physical body and physical blood of Jesus, under the guise [lie, deception] of 'bread' and [corrupt/intoxicating/alcoholic] 'wine'.

Whether they presently know it or not, that is still eating "human flesh" and "human blood" by 'faith', which means they actually must [dogmatically] believe that that is what they are actually doing.

Scripture forbids this in this most explicit terms.

What is more it is supposed to be the sacrificial Jesus [dead, a 'true' sacrifice as they would say] the Passover, devouring what they perceive 'mysteriously' and without question the flesh and blood of Him...

Roman Catholicism, is actually the worship of death [dead saints, tombs [in Cathedrals, forbidden in Scripture], bones, relics [under altars], blood, persecution [sword of the state]], sacrifice of Christ continually and ever, and its worship focused entirely on Earth, where their "host" is [set in the Baal Hadad, Sun/Moon monstrance], never knowing if they are forgiven, or if their relatives are out of 'purgatory', ever doing penance, and a thousand people in their between them and Christ Jesus.... priest after preist, bishop after bishop, pope after pope, saint after saint, and then finally having to go through 'mary' [that messenger of Light; 2 Corinthians 11:14, of which it is already proven in their own literature and 'apparitions'...]... ["the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth"], yet reading Hebrews, our Worship is to be directed to Christ Jesus always above in the Heavenly Sanctuary:

The Roman Catholic system of belief, actually takes away the worship due unto Christ Jesus, and I have the Photographic evidence to show that the entire "Mass" is but a counterfeit system on Earth of the True Heavenly Sanctuary above where all our focus ought to be, to follow the Lamb whithersoever He goeth therein...

Laver...
Altar...
Priests...
Incense...
High-Priest...
12 GemStone BreastPlate...
Sacrifice...
Bread...
Golden Cups...
Table...
Golden Box...
Two Room Compartment With Veil/Wall [Confessional, Priest sits in the place of God, hearing confessions of sins]
Great White Throne, surrounded by 4 Living, 2 Golden Angels
Congregation before Him...
a Deity...

yes... brothers and sisters, it is the great counterfeit, and there is so much more, for even in prophecy and history is it the counterfeit... ever 'standing in the place of' [anti christos; vicarivs christi]... this system that was once wounded to death is almost healed...

...if only they would call upon the True Jesus Christ to set them free of it, they would be free... and ask Him for the Truth, and He shall freely give it unto you...

...that Roman Papal system will collapse in the most terrible way, after it appears to succeed, it is already foretold...

 

[One Baptism]

Now, as time allows, I shall enter into a reply in regards the second portion of the OP, namely that of 'priestly' [sacerdotal] confession [auricular].

It is actually a counterfeit of the Holy and Most Holy Place of the Sanctuary. A two compartment room, with a veil inbetween, separating the 'alter christus' [another Christ] from the 'sinner', where the 'priest' sits enthroned in a chair, lifted above the 'penitent', and the 'penitent' kneeling in the other place, as to 'Christ Himself'.

Our Father which art in Heaven ... not on earth.

 

[MennoSota]

Wow...are we having a cut & paste contest?

 

[Aragorn]

Thank you One Baptism for your long and informative effort post.