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"elect"

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by SheepWhisperer, Jul 26, 2017.

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  1. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    1Pe 2:6
    Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

    To the Calvinist: why do you think that Christ, the "chief corner stone" is "elect"?
    Do you think He was chosen to exist at some time in the past? Do you think He was "chosen to be saved" at some time? Or do you think God just chose Him from among the rest of the Heavenly beings to be the Christ? How do you think the "Word which was God", "the Alpha and Omega" who has always existed,was "chosen" and how could Christ, being God, be "chosen", according to the Calvinist definition of "elect", at all?
     
    #1 SheepWhisperer, Jul 26, 2017
  2. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    No takers? OK
    election noun [ C/U ]
    US /ɪˈlek·ʃən/
    act or occasion of being chosen for a particular job, esp. by voting:
    election Definition in the Cambridge English Dictionary

    Christ, the Word, God the Son, had the job of creating all things (John chapter 1)
    His "goings forth" have been "ever of old"
    He was in the fiery furnace with the three Hebrew children.
    He was the "I Am" who spoke with Moses out of the burning bush.
    He was born of a virgin, taught in the synagogues, preached to the multitudes, gave bread to the hungry, healed the lame, healed the blind, cast devils out of men, healed the woman with the issue, brought the dead back to life, prayed, walked on the sea, was scourged and whipped, saved the woman at the well, taught his disciples, saved the thief on the cross, died and rose again and did a bunch more stuff, ascended and now makes intercession for us to the Father. THAT's what his "election" is. Election has nothing to do with God selecting us for salvation, even "angels" are "elect". It has to do with our service, purpose, our job and that is to preach the word and live holy lives in this world. All this stuff about being "elect" to salvation? It's the blind leading the blind. Jesus died for all mankind, end of story. He is infinite, perfect, all powerful and complete. He doesn't do anything halfway. His love and His salvation has no limits! And no one "limits" "overpowers" or "thwarts" Him by rejecting His "so great salvation".....no, He will just send you to Hell after you die. Is that "weak"? I don't think so.
     
    #2 SheepWhisperer, Jul 26, 2017
  3. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Christ was chosen in eternity, and He was chosen, not to be saved of course, but to save. '.....Just as He [the Father] chose us In Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holt and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory bof His grace, by which He made us accepted in the beloved [Son]. In Him we have redemption through His blood.....' (Ephesians 1:4-7).

    Christ is made the sure foundation,
    Christ the Head and Cornerstone.
    Chosen of the Lord and precious,
    Binding all the Church in one;
    Holy Zion's help forever,
    And her confidence alone.
    [7th Century Latin hymn translated by J. M. Neale]
     
    #3 Martin Marprelate, Jul 26, 2017
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  4. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    See the next thread "Predestination" for that one......
     
    #4 SheepWhisperer, Jul 26, 2017
  5. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    We are elected In Christ before the world was.
    We are elected and called to be saints.
    We are elected unto good works that God has ordained for us to do.eph2:1-10
    God elects individuals, nations, for both salvation and service.
    His elect sheep hear His voice. Jn10:27....
    Goats do not, because they are goatsjn10:26
    All elect saints are thankful to God for His electing grace.
    Goats mumble about it, complain, whine,speak of corporate election and other fantasies not in scripture.
    God foreknow's each elect person....their names are known to Him.
    It is a fixed number , a multitude that no man can number.
    Jesus is the surety for them, not for every person ever born.heb7:22-25
     
    #5 Iconoclast, Jul 26, 2017
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  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    the Christ was/is fully God, so no need to get saved!
     
    #6 Yeshua1, Jul 26, 2017
  7. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    exactly!
     
    #7 SheepWhisperer, Jul 26, 2017
  8. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    In context he is speaking of the assembly as an organic institution of living stones who are assembled in order to conduct "acceptable" worship unto God. Christ is called the "cheif cornerstone" in making up the "foundation" as in Ephesians 2:20 as the congregation of baptized believers receive none to be baptized in water or for membership into the assembly other than those who profess Jesus Christ as Savior. The apostles, followed by the prophets (1 Cor. 12:28 "first.....secondarily) also make up this metaphorical foundation as they reveal Christ through their inspired writings - the written New Testament, and thus speak on his behalf. Thus the "cornerstone" with the apostles and prophets - written New Testament express the revealed will of Jesus Christ and it is upon this the congregation is built, thus making it "the pillar and ground of the truth."

    The "cornerstone" was the stone that the rest of the foundation lined up with and that is precisely what the aposltes and prophets did in providing the New Testament - they lined up with the teachings and person of Christ.
     
    #8 The Biblicist, Aug 4, 2017
  9. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    Yes, I understand this is what it is referring to. Here is another scripture which I believe refers to that very thing, spoken in "prophetic perfect tense" in the Book of Job......
    Job 38:4-7King James Version (KJV)
    4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

    5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

    6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

    7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

    From this, it indicates that the "corner stone laying" event actually takes place in the future when all of God's children (sons of God) are present at "zion" But let's not get into that now. The subject was the word"elect" and what that word refers to is the purpose of the Lord Jesus Christ: Christ had a job to do.
    Likewise, "elect" also refers to our purpose which is to spread the Gospel to every creature and the Bible is telling us that it was God's purpose, design and plan from the beginning.. It has nothing to do with being chosen for salvation. The Bible never says that a single time.
     
    #9 SheepWhisperer, Aug 5, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2017
  10. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    You can't put the term "elect" in just one box. God chose unregenerate Cyrus to perform a job for him. God chooses people to be prophets (Jer. 1:5). God chooses people "to" salvation (2 Thes. 2:13).
     
    #10 The Biblicist, Aug 5, 2017
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  11. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Right.
    Habakkuk reveals that God raised up Babylon as his choice to reprimand his elect people, Israel/Judah. God chose to harden Pharaoh's heart. God elects to snatch some from the river that flows to hell while electing not to snatch others from the river. What we must understand is that humans willingly swim headlong toward hell with no attempt to swim against the stream. Swimming against the stream seems foolish to unredeemed humanity. They hate the thought and despise the suggestion to stop swimming down stream. God elects to let them swim to their own demise.
     
    #11 MennoSota, Aug 5, 2017
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  12. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    God doesn't refer to Babylon, Pharaoh, or "Cyrus" as being "elect".
     
    #12 SheepWhisperer, Aug 7, 2017
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