Freemasonry: Good, Bad, Indifferent

[tyndale1946]

One cannot be a Mason and be a member of our church.

The Old Line Primitive Baptist have never condoned according to my knowledge being in the church over 50 years, of any member belonging to any secret society... The key word is SECRET... In no uncertain terms... Keep your mouth shut... Then there is this scripture among many, that could be quoted... Brother Glen

Matthew 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

 

[JonC]

The dead wear their while linen covering, as a sign of now having attained to being with the Supreme Architect in Heaven in the celestial Lodge.

I have no clue as to what you mean here, brother. I've only seen two funerals where they had the masons do their thing. Both times the dead guys wore suits (so did the masons but they had aprons on).

 

[Yeshua1]

I have no clue as to what you mean here, brother. I've only seen two funerals where they had the masons do their thing. Both times the dead guys wore suits (so did the masons but they had aprons on).

They wear that to show that they are now ready to go into the Heavenly Lodge, created by whatever God you worship!

 

[JonC]

I have found this to be true as well; that is, getting Masons to admit to something is like trying to nail down jello.

I can help you here. Regarding what goes on, every degree has books so that you can read your way through a degree (if the one conferring the degree hasn't memorized it or stumbles). All of these can be found easy enough (I tossed mine when I left the fraternity, but they are not hard to get). Each state has a book of bylaws. That's it (just degrees and one business meeting a month). But non-masons want more (so do many new masons....they quit once they discover there are no "real" secrets). When questioned they pretend masons are hard to nail down. Well....I was a mason and I offered to answer whatever questions you have (if I can)....sometimes people asking questions are like trying to nail down jello (just kidding).

The biggest problem is that it can't be "nailed down". It is subjective. In Freemasonry EVERYTHING is symbolic. The meaning of the symbols are subjective to the individual mason. This is why the "Architect of the Universe" can be understood as God or as Allah, or as Ahura Mazda...or whatever. The whole point is the idea that if a man is religious he has a common goal because all religious share a common sense of right and wrong as it pertains to the human race. They can all work together for the benefit of man even as they pray to different gods.

But people want to find a spokesman. They want Albert Pike's writing to be what masons believe (it's not). Or they want Duncan's idea of what it was to him to be what it is to all masons (it is not). It is philosophical and can be adopted (even if it shouldn't) by any religion because it is not a religion itself.

 

[JonC]

They wear that to show that they are now ready to go into the Heavenly Lodge, created by whatever God you worship!

What makes you think that?

 

[JonC]

The Old Line Primitive Baptist have never condoned according to my knowledge being in the church over 50 years, of any member belonging to any secret society... The key word is SECRET... In no uncertain terms... Keep your mouth shut... Then there is this scripture among many, that could be quoted... Brother Glen

Matthew 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

A neighboring lodge (in a very small town) had a Primitive Baptist (don't know about "Old Line") pastor as Chaplain and our tiler was of that denomination. On another note, a friend of mine was over a lodge in Nashville. He was Hispanic and Catholic.

 

[tyndale1946]

A neighboring lodge (in a very small town) had a Primitive Baptist (don't know about "Old Line") pastor as Chaplain and our tiler was of that denomination. On another note, a friend of mine was over a lodge in Nashville. He was Hispanic and Catholic.

My first wife's father was Mason in the Scottish Rite in San Diego and she belonged to Jobs Daughters, never could get his son to join DeMolay, but that was then... As the old saying goes Jon... Different strokes for different folk... Brother Glen

 

[JonC]

My first wife's father was Mason in the Scottish Rite in San Diego and she belonged to Jobs Daughters, never could get his son to join DeMolay, but that was then... As the old saying goes Jon... Different strokes for different folk... Brother Glen

I land between Christian liberty (which should be given up if people object to the fraternity) and a flat out "it's bad". I wouldn't recommend to anyone they join, but knowing what it is (and isn't) I also wouldn't deny fellowship to anyone based on their membership. I understand some people believe it is a religion and my knowing it isn't will never change their minds. And it can be...as anything can be...a religion if one was to make it such.

But forming such a view based on internet sources and a few books (and, BTW, choosing which ones you are going to believe) seems foreign to the purpose of the local church. A problem here is that too many churches have taken their eyes off of Christ and instead are involving themselves in such silliness.

The reason primary reason I think it is bad is that Christians are to function within a church. I don't believe that it is proper for a believer to link himself with organizations such as the Freemasons, the FOP (I'm a little iffy on this one....but their oath is very similar), the Elks, ect. in order to show the love of man for the world (charity). I believe Christians are to function within the church to show the love of God instead.

The reason I believe this is that we are called to do good works so that the world will see and glorify God. This cannot happen with a secular organization.

 

[The Biblicist]

It also depends on the jurisdiction. Each state is a separate fraternity that just recognizes other states or other countries (none are exactly the same).

When I lived in Europe the issue wasn't paganism (they seemed to dismiss this, I think because things like the Taxel hoax was common knowledge). The issue was favouritism. I know a couple of people who gained employment because they were masons. I guess this isn't as common given the masons are dying out, but I see this as a concern.

Well, I am glad you are no more part of it and don't support Christians being members.

 

[JonC]

Well, I am glad you are no more part of it and don't support Christians being members.

I’ve never really supported people joining the organization (even as I was over the thing). I just never got the reason people joined fraternities in the first place except perhaps people just needing a place to belong (I joined just to learn what they were about).

But there are several things I don’t understand. I don’t understand the appeal of sports (except baseball, of course). I don’t understand lima beans and people who eat them. And I'm not sure I understand the stance some churches take, given the credibility of their sources, on the Masons.

There are far better ways for a Christian to spend his time than joining the Masons. And there are far better things a church should be doing than involving itself with anti-mason propaganda. People are dying every day without the gospel. The fields are white and ready for harvest, yet so often we are bogged down with distraction.

 

[The Biblicist]

I’ve never really supported people joining the organization (even as I was over the thing). I just never got the reason people joined fraternities in the first place except perhaps people just needing a place to belong (I joined just to learn what they were about).

But there are several things I don’t understand. I don’t understand the appeal of sports (except baseball, of course). I don’t understand lima beans and people who eat them. And I'm not sure I understand the stance some churches take, given the credibility of their sources, on the Masons.

There are far better ways for a Christian to spend his time than joining the Masons. And there are far better things a church should be doing than involving itself with anti-mason propaganda. People are dying every day without the gospel. The fields are white and ready for harvest, yet so often we are bogged down with distraction.

Well, I guess I have spent a whole 20 minutes on that subject in the last 20 years (it was 37 years ago with the Montana funeral and it was 25 years ago with the Mississippi congregation. However, I did my research thoroughly at the time.

 

[rlvaughn]

But forming such a view based on internet sources and a few books...

This is part of the jello factor; you can't get a straight answer from Masons and books purportedly written by Masons. Combine this with the secrecy and you ultimately have a system that is unknowable. Secret knowledge is antithetical to Christianity.

A few things I know.

• I know some of the oaths (unless they have changed) because I have Fellowcraft and Master Mason booklets that were left in my home by the person who lived there before me.
• I had a friend (now deceased) who took the Entered Apprentice Degree, then quit and never went back. Perhaps he took it too literally, but he was genuinely afraid to talk about it beyond that he had joined and would not talk about it.
• A preacher friend who was a Mason said the black (African-American) lodges were not recognized as true Masonic lodges (this may have been a Southern thing).
• A preacher cousin who was not a Mason said he was never called to pastor any church when he got the Masonic handshake from a deacon/the deacons.
• A friend who was a Mason seemed to get hired anywhere where the person hiring was a Mason.
• The Masonic theology or philosophy IS NOT Christ alone, which is also antithetical to Christianity.

 

[JonC]

Well, I guess I have spent a whole 20 minutes on that subject in the last 20 years (it was 37 years ago with the Montana funeral and it was 25 years ago with the Mississippi congregation. However, I did my research thoroughly at the time.

Yea...I haven't thought of the topic for some time either. I really thought the topic had died out as Calvinism became the "bad guy".

 

[rlvaughn]

A preacher friend who was a Mason said the black (African-American) lodges were not recognized a true Masonic lodges (this may have been a Southern thing).

BTW, he actually used the word "clandestine" -- which I thought might be confusing since to most of us that might mainly mean "secret". But his usage was that it was an irregular or unlawful lodge falsely claiming to be Freemasonry.

 

[Berean]

In another thread Bro. James brought up the topic of Freemasonry. Rather than respond to it there, I decided to create a new thread. I didn't notice that it has been discussed much on this site. If it has, I apologize.

According to this site, if accurate, some fairly prominent Baptists were Masons. In general, when the Baptists in the U.S. split over missionary societies, seminaries, church auxiliaries and such like, the side in favor of these viewed Freemasonry as a thing indifferent, while the opposing side generally viewed Freemasonry as incompatible with the work of the church (and have fairly consistently maintained that position). Perhaps in recent years that view has begun to change among missionary Baptists. In 1993 the SBC passed a resolution on Freemasonry, that (among other things) concluded "That many tenets and teachings of Freemasonry are not compatible with Christianity or Southern Baptist doctrine." (See also A Closer Look at Freemasonry)

What do you think of Freemasonry? Is it a Christian organization that is fitting for Baptists to be members of? Is it a benign philosophy whose basic principles are compatible with Christianity? Is it a false religion that infiltrates Christian churches? You may have other ideas; these are just some questions to get the ball rolling.

 

[Berean]

As I mentioned at the start, there are some un-Christlike brothers who make the topic difficult to truly discuss due to the unfortunate combination of gullibility and gossip. Thank you for that demonstration, brother.

This is why this thread will get nowhere. Those who don't know read such and such and those with first hand knowledge drank the koolaide. We just end up with this type of logical fallacy even when you and I are on the same side of the issue.

I went white water rafting last weekend (my first time). They had this rock called "idiot rock" because of the idiots who jumped off it into the river. You are on that rock, brother. We, as Christians, do not need to get into conspiracy stupidity in order to address these things.

You were wrong in your implication towards me. I told you my experience and pointed out where common myth differed. I do not advocate Freemasonry, not am I a member. But, unlike some, I will not forfeit my integrity as I speak of why I believe Christians should be masons.

 

[rlvaughn]

I really thought the topic had died out as Calvinism became the "bad guy".

Move over Calvin, there's a new kid in town! His name is Mason.

 

[JonC]

This is part of the jello factor; you can't get a straight answer from Masons and books purportedly written by Masons.

It depends on what you mean by a “straight answer”. As I said, everything is symbolic and subjective (kinda like truth in postmodernism) with the only things not subjective being explained in the degrees (e.g., “meeting on the level” for meeting as equals regardless of social position). So you could ask two masons what something means and get two different answers (and some get real detailed and philosophical in their views). This only seems shifty when you mistake it for a religion rather than a secular and humanistic philosophy.

I know some of the oaths (unless they have changed) because I have Fellowcraft and Master Mason booklets that were left in my home by the person who lived there before me.

The Fellowcraft was my favorite (I was very good at presenting the staircase lecture). It's also how I learned a process to memorize long script.

I had a friend (now deceased) who took the Entered Apprentice Degree, then quit and never went back. Perhaps he took it too literally, but he was genuinely afraid to talk about it beyond that he had joined and would not talk about it.

You do take it literally at first. The person going through the degree never really gets the full picture because he is repeating what is said (in the oath) and not really paying attention to what the other characters in the play are saying. I never got the “no less than” part of the penalty until I was conferring the degrees.

A preacher friend who was a Mason said the black (African-American) lodges were not recognized a true Masonic lodges (this may have been a Southern thing).

I had a friend who is black. When I mentioned I was joining he told me he was a mason and suggested I would like it. I wanted to join his lodge, but he informed me that he was a member of a Prince Hall lodge and I needed to join a regular mason lodge. I almost didn’t join because of this segregation but he said it “is not like that”. Personally, I don’t see how it isn’t “like that”. That said, some lodges recognize both Prince Hall and regular masons (and many do not restrict membership). Like I said, a friend I served with in the Army is Hispanic and was over a lodge in Nashville. I don’t’ think this would have happened in a smaller town, though.

A preacher cousin who was not a Mason said he was never called to pastor any church when he got the Masonic handshake from a deacon/the deacons.

I doubt there is a connection here.

A friend who was a Mason seemed to get hired anywhere where the person hiring was a Mason.

I have seen this sort of favoritism (not first hand, but when I was discussing this thread with a coworker, not a mason, he told me his cousin got hired because he was a mason).

The Masonic theology or philosophy IS NOT Christ alone, which is also antithetical to Christianity.

There is no such thing as “Masonic theology” as views on God are not discussed (the whole point is for men to gather in what they have in common and apart from religious division). Your conclusion here is the same as saying “American theology IS NOT Christ alone, which is also antithetical to Christianity", and the same as saying Americanism is a religion because their currency says "In God We Trust", has an "all seeing eye", and opens congress with prayer.

That said, Christians should not (IMHO) yoke themselves with secular organizations. The danger of Freemasonry is much more subtle than the "witch hunters" seem to realize.

 

[Berean]

I was a Mason for 35 years (32 degree) and active in Scottish Rite. The first thing that got my attention was a part in the 18th (Rose Croix) "We do not assert that He (referring to Jesus Christ) was God, neither do we deny it, that is a question to be settled else where" Well I do assert that he was, is, and will forever be 100% God. I asked to have my name expunged from all record and was granted that request. There were many of my Christian Brothers in the Masons and most still remain. This did not change my relationship outside of the lodge with any of them.

 

[JonC]

BTW, he actually used the word "clandestine" -- which I thought might be confusing since to most of us that might mainly mean "secret". But his usage was that it was an irregular or unlawful lodge falsely claiming to be Freemasonry.

Yes, this is what it means to them. And it can change. An irregular lodge is one that was not formed by charter from a grand lodge. Sometimes states stop recognizing one another (there was an instance where some states did not recognize other states for a time for recognizing Prince Hall masons as regular).

So to add to the confusion, in the United States there are 51 different Freemason Grand Lodges (51 different fraternities) which are bound only by volunteer recognition of one another. None of them are exactly the same.

Come to think of it, I don't know why the SBC was so up in arms. They sound alike.