Freemasonry: Good, Bad, Indifferent

[Revmitchell]

Each church should determine these things. Even if their view is influenced by fake news it is still their view and it affects the church. I remember a pastor telling me that he believed the passage about deacons in Tim. concerned polygamy instead of divorce, but that it was proper to respect the voice of the congregation on such matters.

Technically, one can't be a member of our church if they engage in the sell of alcohol. I don't know if this is enforced.

While I disagree that the church should exclude people because they are a member of the Freemasons (unless, perhaps, it includes other fraternities that also take such oaths....e.g., the FOP, Elks,....Water Buffaloes ....), I respect that type of church for taking the command to be a holy people seriously. For me, I think that this is ultimately a matter of Christian liberty.

"Are non-Christian Freemasons led to believe that they can reach Heaven outside of professing faith in Jesus Christ?

Without question. In the long speech in the second degree, a Fellowcraft is explicitly told that they will be happy at death if “the setting splendors of a virtuous life gild his departing moments with the gentle tints of hope.” Often Freemasonry is described as an organization that exists to “make good men better.” It presupposes the basic goodness of man (at least of those who pass the initial screening of their candidacy).

If the Great Architect of the Universe the same God as the God of the Holy Bible?

It cannot be by definition since Freemasonry only requires a belief in a Supreme Being/God/god and leaves that up to the candidate to determine who/Who/what that is for them. In rural Missouri, people were basically “Christian” in their mindset (not born again mind you but simply meaning that they took their oaths on the Bible but one could have taken it on any “holy book”). The only requirement is that you cannot be a professing atheist. That kind of pluralistic approach cannot be the God of the Holy Bible.

Is there any truth to the notion that Freemasonry teaches belief in Osiris, Hours, or other Egyptian deities?

I do not recall these names in either the Blue Lodge or the Scottish Rite (however, the Scottish Rite was a weekend “marathon” in which degrees 4-32 were given and it was done “theater style” with us watching the proceedings so I have very little recollection of it)

Is the “All Seeing Eye” a representation of God?

Yes, because we are reminded that even if our actions evade the eyes of men, that all of them are seen by the “All-Seeing Eye” who will reward us according to “our merits” (yet another false doctrine, unless by “reward” they mean “judgment”)."

The False Gospel of Freemasonry: Pulpit & Pen Interviews a Former Mason

 

[JonC]

"Are non-Christian Freemasons led to believe that they can reach Heaven outside of professing faith in Jesus Christ?

Without question. In the long speech in the second degree, a Fellowcraft is explicitly told that they will be happy at death if “the setting splendors of a virtuous life gild his departing moments with the gentle tints of hope.” Often Freemasonry is described as an organization that exists to “make good men better.” It presupposes the basic goodness of man (at least of those who pass the initial screening of their candidacy).

If the Great Architect of the Universe the same God as the God of the Holy Bible?

It cannot be by definition since Freemasonry only requires a belief in a Supreme Being/God/god and leaves that up to the candidate to determine who/Who/what that is for them. In rural Missouri, people were basically “Christian” in their mindset (not born again mind you but simply meaning that they took their oaths on the Bible but one could have taken it on any “holy book”). The only requirement is that you cannot be a professing atheist. That kind of pluralistic approach cannot be the God of the Holy Bible.

Is there any truth to the notion that Freemasonry teaches belief in Osiris, Hours, or other Egyptian deities?

I do not recall these names in either the Blue Lodge or the Scottish Rite (however, the Scottish Rite was a weekend “marathon” in which degrees 4-32 were given and it was done “theater style” with us watching the proceedings so I have very little recollection of it)

Is the “All Seeing Eye” a representation of God?

Yes, because we are reminded that even if our actions evade the eyes of men, that all of them are seen by the “All-Seeing Eye” who will reward us according to “our merits” (yet another false doctrine, unless by “reward” they mean “judgment”)."

The False Gospel of Freemasonry: Pulpit & Pen Interviews a Former Mason

No, they are not. It is assumed the person already has a belief in a supreme being and an afterlife of some type of rewards. It is assumed they believe themselves accountable to a supreme being insofar as tgeir deeds. They are not taught a gospel or a way to heaven or a way to God. In other words, a preacher who preaches that masons teach another gospel is a preacher who has forfeited the pulpit to gossip.

Yes, the symbolism of the Scottish rite incorporates several mythologies (Zoroastrianism, Egyptian, Judaism, ect.). And yes, the focus is that all of these religions seek the common goal of benefiting mankind and should be tolerant of one another and work towards that end (it is secular....maybe atheistic....humanism).

All of the degrees are plays along the same line but with different themes (I was never a member of the Shrines, but I understand they are much the same).

The thing is so atheistic that any religion can put their holy book on the stand and keep the same degrees.

 

[The Biblicist]

As I mentioned at the start, there are some un-Christlike brothers who make the topic difficult to truly discuss due to the unfortunate combination of gullibility and gossip. Thank you for that demonstration, brother.

This is why this thread will get nowhere. Those who don't know read such and such and those with first hand knowledge drank the koolaide. We just end up with this type of logical fallacy even when you and I are on the same side of the issue.

I went white water rafting last weekend (my first time). They had this rock called "idiot rock" because of the idiots who jumped off it into the river. You are on that rock, brother. We, as Christians, do not need to get into conspiracy stupidity in order to address these things.

You were wrong in your implication towards me. I told you my experience and pointed out where common myth differed. I do not advocate Freemasonry, not am I a member. But, unlike some, I will not forfeit my integriy as I speak of why I believe Christians should be masons.

I think you might be right along side me on that rock. You are going to take your isolated experience in one fraternity as the standard, when those recognized as Masonic authorities don't agree with you and when my own experiences cross over two different states both of which side with the standard authorties.

I think it is a naive position to claim the Mason's is not a religious organization when in fact they do require a religious litmus test to join and they do in fact perform "Christian" burial services using the bible (or Koran in muslim countries). So watch your feet, you are about to slip off that rock!

 

[Revmitchell]

No, they are not. It is assumed the person already has a belief in a supreme being and an afterlife of some type of rewards. It is assumed they believe themselves accountable to a supreme being insofar as tgeir deeds. They are not taught a gospel or a way to heaven or a way to God. In other words, a preacher who preaches that masons teach another gospel is a preacher who has forfeited the pulpit to gossip.

And yet it was this person experience that they do. This former mason is not the only one to make this claim.

Yes, the symbolism of the Scottish rite incorporates several mythologies (Zoroastrianism, Egyptian, Judaism, ect.). And yes, the focus is that all of these religions seek the common goal of benefiting mankind and should be tolerant of one another and work towards that end (it is secular....maybe atheistic....humanism).

All of the degrees are plays along the same line but with different themes (I was never a member of the Shrines, but I understand they are much the same).

The thing is so atheistic that any religion can put their holy book on the stand and keep the same degrees.

No Christian belongs to any organization that must act as if they will have their throat slit if they reveal their secrets.

 

[JonC]

And yet it was this person experience that they do.

Maybe that was his experience, but it certainly wasn't mine.

No Christian belongs to any organization that must act as if they will have their throat slit if they reveal their secrets.

I agree. And I agree that Christians shouldn't be Freemasons where they are told the penalty of revealing the "secrets" is to be expelled (which is viewed as no less a penalty than ...). Also,this is a good example of how a preacher could mistakenly spread fake news (the penality stated in every degree is the same - to be kicked out).

Along the same line, Christians shouldn't belong to the FOP, the Odd Fellows, or the Elks (I did the Elks for a year as part of a marketing campaign.....they were founded to get around the blue laws and I discovered a few deacons getting drunk in "secret").

 

[Revmitchell]

Maybe that was his experience, but it certainly wasn't mine.

I agree. And I agree that Christians shouldn't be Freemasons where they are told the penalty of revealing the "secrets" is to be expelled (which is viewed as no less a penalty than ...). Also,this is a good example of how a preacher could mistakenly spread fake news (the penality stated in every degree is the same - to be kicked out).

Along the same line, Christians shouldn't belong to the FOP, the Odd Fellows, or the Elks (I did the Elks for a year as part of a marketing campaign.....they were founded to get around the blue laws and I discovered a few deacons getting drunk in "secret").

Uh no, there are far too many former masons that took those oaths. Not fake news.

 

[rlvaughn]

However, I have found that Mason's are experts at passing the buck. If one of their official representative written works says something they don't like they down play that person...

I have found this to be true as well; that is, getting Masons to admit to something is like trying to nail down jello.

One old preacher who I considered a good Christian and quite biblically sound was nevertheless a Mason. He tried to explain it by saying that Christianity was the answer to what Freemasonry was seeking for (the light).

Has anyone performed a joint funeral with Masons?

I have. In my case I held the service at the funeral home and the Masons held the service at the graveside.

They remind me of LDS and the prophetic writings of LDS.

It is interesting that Mormons actually have a connection to Masonry. I haven't studied to see just what it is, but I think it is that some of the early leaders were Masons and they incorporated some of the beliefs and symbology into their religion. I remember a book that I read on Mormons had a picture of one of the leaders -- Brigham Young, I think -- and he had the square & compass symbol on his lapel.

 

[Yeshua1]

In another thread Bro. James brought up the topic of Freemasonry. Rather than respond to it there, I decided to create a new thread. I didn't notice that it has been discussed much on this site. If it has, I apologize.

According to this site, if accurate, some fairly prominent Baptists were Masons. In general, when the Baptists in the U.S. split over missionary societies, seminaries, church auxiliaries and such like, the side in favor of these viewed Freemasonry as a thing indifferent, while the opposing side generally viewed Freemasonry as incompatible with the work of the church (and have fairly consistently maintained that position). Perhaps in recent years that view has begun to change among missionary Baptists. In 1993 the SBC passed a resolution on Freemasonry, that (among other things) concluded "That many tenets and teachings of Freemasonry are not compatible with Christianity or Southern Baptist doctrine." (See also A Closer Look at Freemasonry)

What do you think of Freemasonry? Is it a Christian organization that is fitting for Baptists to be members of? Is it a benign philosophy whose basic principles are compatible with Christianity? Is it a false religion that infiltrates Christian churches? You may have other ideas; these are just some questions to get the ball rolling.

It is a cult group, that sees God as being whatever supreme Being that you need Him to be, to mix all religions as equal, and to have how you act and behave as standards to going to Heaven. It is really Gnostic, as they claim to have hidden spiritual truths/knowledge, and it is very deceptive and dangerous to join!

 

[JonC]

Uh no, there are far too many former masons that took those oaths. Not fake news.

"I will keep, conceal and never reveal....under no less a penalty than that of having my throat cut from ear to ear.....when you took the oath you swore to keep the secrets of the lodge. When a brother tells you something in confidence you are to keep this as if it were your own. You swore under a penalty. The penalty to be expelled which we consider most severe".

Fake news includes when people leave things out (like the part of that 1st degree explaining the penalty is not a bloody death but being expelled which is viewed as worse). Unfortunately many well meaning pastors have surrendered to gossip and tarnished their integrity.

 

[Revmitchell]

"I will keep, conceal and never reveal....under no less a penalty than that of having my throat cut from ear to ear.....when you took the oath you swore to keep the secrets of the lodge. When a brother tells you something in confidence you are to keep this as if it were your own. You swore under a penalty. The penalty to be expelled which we consider most severe".

Fake news includes when people leave things out (like the part of that 1st degree explaining the penalty is not a bloody death but being expelled which is viewed as worse). Unfortunately many well meaning pastors have surrendered to gossip and tarnished their integrity.

Uh no, no tarnishing of integrity after the following nothing more needs to be said:

"I will keep, conceal and never reveal....under no less a penalty than that of having my throat cut from ear to ear."

There is no context in which this is what a Christian should take part in. ever

 

[JonC]

It is a cult group, that sees God as being whatever supreme Being that you need Him to be, to mix all religions as equal

Well, no. It uses the idea of a supreme being in a secular sense. It's ceremonial deism (like how Muslims, Christians, and atheists open meetings in "prayer"). The idea is that the Christian can pray to God and the Muslim to Allah. So no, they don't "see God as being whatever supreme being" but that do accept every religion as equal in a secular sense (not as individuals but as an organization). And I do, actually, find this dangerous.

It is really Gnostic, as they claim to have hidden spiritual truths/knowledge, and it is very deceptive and dangerous to join!

I agree with this part.

 

[JonC]

Uh no, no tarnishing of integrity after the following nothing more needs to be said:

"I will keep, conceal and never reveal....under no less a penalty than that of having my throat cut from ear to ear."

There is no context in which this is what a Christian should take part in. ever

I agree. But that was not what you said. What you left out was the part of that degree where the "no less than" is being expelled. You led (I believe) to the false idea that Masons take a "blood oath" when (regardless of the dark language) the penalty explained in that same degree is to be expelled (just like the Fraternal Order of Police and the Elks).

I believe we have to be careful because we are talking about people and about other Christians. The churches that I have seen split over the issue were the ones where the teachings exceeded truth and every Mason knew it. When they tried to correct the issue they were told they drank the Coolaide or just never made it to "that"level (and told this by people connected to the subject via anti-mason books or the internet).

Other churches have dealt with Freemasonry on much more honest terms.

 

[Yeshua1]

Well, no. It uses the idea of a supreme being in a secular sense. It's ceremonial deism (like how Muslims, Christians, and atheists open meetings in "prayer"). The idea is that the Christian can pray to God and the Muslim to Allah. So no, they don't "see God as being whatever supreme being" but that do accept every religion as equal in a secular sense (not as individuals but as an organization). And I do, actually, find this dangerous.

I agree with this part.

They do teach that good works and deeds they do will enable a mason to enter into the celestial lodge, and I do know their teachings, as my father was a shriner!

 

[Revmitchell]

I agree. But that was not what you said. What you left out was the part of that degree where the "no less than" is being expelled. You led (I believe) to the false idea that Masons take a "blood oath" when (regardless of the dark language) the penalty explained in that same degree is to be expelled (just like the Fraternal Order of Police and the Elks).

Sorry I see that as spin. There is no logical reason to take an oath that says you would slit your throat from ear to ear and then try to spin it as not really meaning a blood other but just expelled. You typically are as very reasonable fella, but that is the dumbest thing I have seen on this board as of yet.

 

[JonC]

Sorry I see that as spin. There is no logical reason to take an oath that says you would slit your throat from ear to ear and then try to spin it as not really meaning a blood other but just expelled. You typically are as very reasonable fella, but that is the dumbest thing I have seen on this board as of yet.

That is the degree. How can it be "spin" when the candidate says "no less a penalty than..." and is told this means "being expelled"?

I could see your point if the explanation was not an actual part of the degree, but since it is a part (and since it is a part to stress such a severe view of being expelled) I think you are missing the context.

 

[Revmitchell]

That is the degree. How can it be "spin" when the candidate says "no less a penalty than..." and is told this means "being expelled"?

I could see your point if the explanation was not an actual part of the degree, but since it is a part (and since it is a part to stress such a severe view of being expelled) I think you are missing the context.

You can call it what you want but its ungodly. Christians should have no part in it.

 

[JonC]

You can call it what you want but its ungodly. Christians should have no part in it.

I agree here.

Part of my issue is that I can be somewhat of a fact checker. A pastor once used an illustration of a boat intended for war but used as a cruise line. Turns out that was not exactly true. The tattood Mr. Rogers serving in the USMC....not true. Scientists baffled about a missing day? Nope. Fake news, urban legends.

Maybe this stuff shouldn't bother me, but it does. I'm working on that.

 

[The Biblicist]

I have found this to be true as well; that is, getting Masons to admit to something is like trying to nail down jello.

One old preacher who I considered a good Christian and quite biblically sound was nevertheless a Mason. He tried to explain it by saying that Christianity was the answer to what Freemasonry was seeking for (the light).

I have. In my case I held the service at the funeral home and the Masons held the service at the graveside.

It is interesting that Mormons actually have a connection to Masonry. I haven't studied to see just what it is, but I think it is that some of the early leaders were Masons and they incorporated some of the beliefs and symbology into their religion. I remember a book that I read on Mormons had a picture of one of the leaders -- Brigham Young, I think -- and he had the square & compass symbol on his lapel.

Like Mormons they change their past to suit the present. Blood Oaths were the norm and probably still are in most cases. I don't care what Jon says, it is a religious organization and anyone present when they conduct a funeral knows this to be true. Just listen to guy leading the ceremony. They have a religion litmus test to enter. Try entering saying you don't believe in any god. They have a religious view of after life. They are gnostics as they claim to have superior light than any other religion. Find an older KJV Masonic family bible and you can read it for yourself rather than pay attention to either Jon or me.

 

[JonC]

Like Mormons they change their past to suit the present. Blood Oaths were the norm and probably still are in most cases. I don't care what Jon says, it is a religious organization and anyone present when they conduct a funeral knows this to be true. Just listen to guy leading the ceremony. They have a religion litmus test to enter. Try entering saying you don't believe in any god. They have a religious view of after life. They are gnostics as they claim to have superior light than any other religion. Find an older KJV Masonic family bible and you can read it for yourself rather than pay attention to either Jon or me.

It also depends on the jurisdiction. Each state is a separate fraternity that just recognizes other states or other countries (none are exactly the same).

When I lived in Europe the issue wasn't paganism (they seemed to dismiss this, I think because things like the Taxel hoax was common knowledge). The issue was favouritism. I know a couple of people who gained employment because they were masons. I guess this isn't as common given the masons are dying out, but I see this as a concern.

 

[Yeshua1]

I agree here.

Part of my issue is that I can be somewhat of a fact checker. A pastor once used an illustration of a boat intended for war but used as a cruise line. Turns out that was not exactly true. The tattood Mr. Rogers serving in the USMC....not true. Scientists baffled about a missing day? Nope. Fake news, urban legends.

Maybe this stuff shouldn't bother me, but it does. I'm working on that.

The dead wear their while linen covering, as a sign of now having attained to being with the Supreme Architect in Heaven in the celestial Lodge. No Christian should be a part of any group that denies Jesus is Lord, and also denies you need Him toi get to heaven!