Freemasonry: Good, Bad, Indifferent

[JonC]

In a small town, the Masonic Lodge can affect a person's job. I think that the SBC said that if you were already a member, you could stay in if you liked; but if you were not a member, do not join. I think that the Masonic Lodge is losing members as time goes by.

Yea, it's dying out. They were popular when "secret" societies were popular. Just about all the rest are gone (except those related to specific groups....like the Knights of Columbus [Catholic] and the Fraternal Order of Police [job related]).

I wonder why the only one addressed is the Masons. The others are about the same (very similar oaths and symbols...e.g., the pentagram and "all seeing eye" of the FOP).

 

[Bro. James]

Satan is still devouring as many as he can. He knows his days are drawing short.

The enemy is in the camp--whatever the name.

For those interested in our Islamic adventures see: rvbeypublications.com. Also: clockofdestiny.com.

This is not going away. We have watered down the impact it has on our lives.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

[percho]

The irony here is your argument about the founding of America as you quoted those evil satanic Masons as evidence of a Christian heritage. Sometimes you can see the reed changing with the wind.

I do hope you keep Freemasonry out of your church and I share that desire. The difference, I suppose, is that while some want to drive away the people with superstitions and myths I prefer to deal honestly with the subject and lead them to repentance. While you would drive them away with a lie I want to bring them to reconciliation and repentance with truth.

You can pretend all day that the reason Masons reject your conclusions is that they are unrepentant of evil. But the truth is they reject your conclusions because their experience tells them that you are wrong. I believe that the Christian does best from the standpoint of Truth but I do understand pastors who intentionally teach a lie for the greater good. The problem with that philosophy is when (or if) the lie is discovered the pastor loses credibility.

For example, you cannot persuade someone who holds to corporate election that they are wrong because they deny God's sovereignty because they know they don't. That said, you can never convenience some they don't because they have already made up their mind based on the writings of others and people who converted to their way of thinking. You lose credibility with the corporate election folks because they KNOW you misunderstand their theology.

You cannot persuade a free-will theologian that they believe that men save themselves because they know this is not what they believe. You lose credibility with the free-will folks because they KNOW you misunderstand their theology.

You cannot persuade a Calvinist that he believes God authors evil because this is not what a Calvinist believes. You lose credibility with the Calvinists because they KNOW you misunderstand their theology

And you cannot persuade a Mason who is a Christian that he worships Lucifer because he knows he doesn't. You can't persuade them that the degrees mean one thing when he, by experience, knows they don't. You lose credibility with the Masons because they KNOW you misunderstand their organization.

I know you believe what what you believe. And that's fine, we are on the same side of the issue here. I only hope that God will give you the grace to keep the conspiracy gossip from tearing down Christians you may encounter who may have experienced Freemasonry very differently from the ideas you have formed.

Amen; And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Can a deceived man, "know," he is deceived? To him his deception is, "truth"

Romans 8:20.

 

[JonC]

Amen; And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Can a deceived man, "know," he is deceived? To him his deception is, "truth"

Romans 8:20.

I think sometimes the problem is that the Christians to find different enemies to fight, so they invent them (or become so gullible they will swallow whatever comes their way). This is, IMHO, a victory for the Enemy as local churches end up chasing their tails rather than doing the Kingdom work that God has purposed for them to do.

The problem is not Freemasonry or the fiction that has been attached to that organization. It is not the Fraternal Order of Police, the Elks lodge, the Moose Lodge or the Water Buffalos. It is not witchcraft in Harry Potter or backwards masked lyrics in “Another One Bites the Dust”).

The problem here is the church and Christians trying to do Kingdom work worldly ways. The problem is Christians who embrace secular humanism by joining the Masons to work as a “brotherhood of man” to solve the problem of sin. And the problem is well meaning but ignorant Christians who leave the security of the Cross to tackle this problem on their own but lose credibility, ultimately casting doubt on all they say to include the message of the gospel (if they ever get around to sharing it). Both are, IMHO, just as destructive in the church.

The church I told you about split over this issue. The Christians who were, had been, or knew about Freemasonry kicked the pastor out because he had disqualified himself in the pulpit (he preached worldly gossip as if it were truth). The pastor, sure his internet research was correct and having interpreted for himself what he had found in books and Bible introductions, left and took about half the congregation. Both sides blame the other, but both were to blame. Things happen for a reason. The church needed to die out (it is now two small dead churches) because they had lost their First Love.

 

[rlvaughn]

Yea, it's dying out. They were popular when "secret" societies were popular. Just about all the rest are gone (except those related to specific groups....like the Knights of Columbus [Catholic] and the Fraternal Order of Police [job related]).

I wonder why the only one addressed is the Masons. The others are about the same (very similar oaths and symbols...e.g., the pentagram and "all seeing eye" of the FOP).

The reason I addressed the Masons in this thread is because the group/subject was related to Brother James's comments in the other thread. I suppose another reason Masons are focused on more than others is that they are the best known -- at least among Baptists. I think most Baptist churches won't have to deal directly with Knights of Columbus, since it is a Catholic organization. Most people probably assume that the Fraternal Order of Police is merely a club more like Kiwanis or Lions for police. But I agree with your point in principle -- all secret societies on this order are equally wrong in their clandestine nature, and in that sense should be opposed equally.

 

[Yeshua1]

I appreciate the sincerity with which you hold your conclusions. I believe that you have the very best intentions, and I do not think that you are intentionally misleading people. I've encountered many sincere pastors that were dumbfounded as to why they failed to connect to so many Masonic church members as their churches divided. The reason, of course, is that their "study" showed what the experience of actual members (including 32 degree Scottish Rite members) proved false. Those pastors only preached to the choir who were equally ignorant about the fraternity.

I know that you are an intelligent man, and I don't want to insult your intelligence. I had read and studied what you present here long before I joined the masons. I read that along with the rebuttals, and I came to the conclusion that if I picked a side it would be out of ignorance. How do you know that you are right and I am wrong? You don't. You have simply chosen what you believe to be the most logical conclusion. How do I know that I am right and you are wrong? I studied the Freemasons from within the group. I read at the Scottish Rite library (many other takes on the degrees that rejected any remotely close to Albert Pike's ideas). I went through the Rite (32 degree mason). I went through the York Rite. I presided over a loge, conferred degrees, explained that everything was symbolism and subjective, and finished my experience as a Past Master. I know that I am right and you are wrong because I took the time (even if it was not the wisest thing to do) to find out.

Again, I know from past conversations that you are both intelligent and scholarly. I truly wish that I had the gift to explain to you in a way that you would understand exactly how Freemasonry works. On one hand, it really is an interesting philosophy - especially when applied to government (the Scottish Rite). Different ideologies uniting under a common and symbolic framework for the betterment of man (an atheistic or deistic religious structure from which work united towards a common good without compromising the various religions represented therein...."In God We Trust").

But in another way, it is more dangerous than your fiction (those wicked 32 degree masons "at the top level" teaching things no one under them will ever know for....well, for no reason at all but to worship Lucifer and trick others into worshiping Lucifer....without knowing they are worshiping Lucifer ...). The fiction is rather silly when you get down to it. A few top rung people tricking Christians into worshiping a false god? Really? Step back and look at what you are saying. It's foolishness in the end because it is pointless. Until you see this I guess you're left to battle Albert Pike's ideas, Tolkien's wizards, and C.S. Lewis' witches. Go get'em tiger. Just try not to tear down too many Christians on your quest.

BUT if you are ever able to understand that Freemasonry is a philosophy and not a religion, that it is a philosophy that can be applied to religions (to include Christianity) because it is so subjective and that it seeks to create an environment where men unite under a common ceremonial deism for the purpose of creating a better humanity, then you will start to see why I am concerned about Christians joining the fraternity.

And you are smart enough to understand. I think the problem is that I am not articulate enough to explain. And for that, I do apologize.

It is a religion though, as it promises to have a future life after death for those who observe iy rites and rituals.
And it does have a view of God that comes from the Occult, and not the scriptures. as being Gnostic wisdom/knowledge not from the scriptures!

 

[Yeshua1]

I think sometimes the problem is that the Christians to find different enemies to fight, so they invent them (or become so gullible they will swallow whatever comes their way). This is, IMHO, a victory for the Enemy as local churches end up chasing their tails rather than doing the Kingdom work that God has purposed for them to do.

The problem is not Freemasonry or the fiction that has been attached to that organization. It is not the Fraternal Order of Police, the Elks lodge, the Moose Lodge or the Water Buffalos. It is not witchcraft in Harry Potter or backwards masked lyrics in “Another One Bites the Dust”).

The problem here is the church and Christians trying to do Kingdom work worldly ways. The problem is Christians who embrace secular humanism by joining the Masons to work as a “brotherhood of man” to solve the problem of sin. And the problem is well meaning but ignorant Christians who leave the security of the Cross to tackle this problem on their own but lose credibility, ultimately casting doubt on all they say to include the message of the gospel (if they ever get around to sharing it). Both are, IMHO, just as destructive in the church.

The church I told you about split over this issue. The Christians who were, had been, or knew about Freemasonry kicked the pastor out because he had disqualified himself in the pulpit (he preached worldly gossip as if it were truth). The pastor, sure his internet research was correct and having interpreted for himself what he had found in books and Bible introductions, left and took about half the congregation. Both sides blame the other, but both were to blame. Things happen for a reason. The church needed to die out (it is now two small dead churches) because they had lost their First Love.

Is Freemasonry a religion? - Secret Societies Exposed
Masonic Lodge has a religion that is not for Christians

 

[Yeshua1]

Yea, it's dying out. They were popular when "secret" societies were popular. Just about all the rest are gone (except those related to specific groups....like the Knights of Columbus [Catholic] and the Fraternal Order of Police [job related]).

I wonder why the only one addressed is the Masons. The others are about the same (very similar oaths and symbols...e.g., the pentagram and "all seeing eye" of the FOP).

Ex-Masons give Honest Answers to Important Questions

 

[JonC]

Ex-Masons give Honest Answers to Important Questions

I am an ex-mason who gave you honest answers to "important questions". I also gave you quotes from their ceremonies.

What is your response to your claim that Masons are buried in white linens and relying on ritual to get them to heaven when the funeral ritual denies your interpretation?

To what end do you believe the "higher" Masons, like your father, tricked Christians into worshiping Lucifer while believing that they were secure in the hands of Christ?

How do you reconcile the fact that your interpretation is foreign to my experience when you have never been a Mason and I am an ex-Mason and Past-Master?

I am looking at the ritual right now and I can see two things. First, there is no justification a Christian can make to remain a Freemason. Second, there is no justification that you can for the sin of being a false witness against those Christians who do remain Freemasons. They (Christian Masons) are yoking themselves with the world. You are sinning "with a high hand".

 

[JonC]

Is Freemasonry a religion? - Secret Societies Exposed
Masonic Lodge has a religion that is not for Christians

So why do you pick these sites instead of the hundreds that say Freemasonry is not a religion? Why do you believe the ex-Masons that say what you want them to say and not the ex-Masons that say otherwise?

The reason that you choose those sites is that they say what you want them to say. You know as well as I that we could just as easily link to sites saying the exact opposite. And I could link them here but I won't because this is exactly what I am talking about when I say that on this topic people like you are even more dangerous to the local church than are the Freemasons.

In fact, at least when you read the Freemason sites they are honest. They can't say too much because you could just as easily have a Freemason who worships Satan as you could a Christian worshiping God. My argument is that under the framework of Freemasonry these yoke themselves together. But at least they are honest.

YOU, on the other hand, ignored actual statements from the organization. AND as proof you offer a link to the Church of Christ website which is also arguing for baptismal regeneration. Are your sources valid? Do you believe that Baptists are going to hell because they don't believe that without water baptism one cannot be saved?

See....I told you that you belong to a group that handles snakes and believes in baptismal regeneration....at least we have proof I'm half right

 

[JonC]

The reason I addressed the Masons in this thread is because the group/subject was related to Brother James's comments in the other thread. I suppose another reason Masons are focused on more than others is that they are the best known -- at least among Baptists. I think most Baptist churches won't have to deal directly with Knights of Columbus, since it is a Catholic organization. Most people probably assume that the Fraternal Order of Police is merely a club more like Kiwanis or Lions for police. But I agree with your point in principle -- all secret societies on this order are equally wrong in their clandestine nature, and in that sense should be opposed equally.

I think that people get more defensive when it "hits home". Freemasonry is not nearly as common as it once was in churches. When I was young it was already going away. But we tend to overlook things like the FOP because so many belong to that organization (it is linked to law enforcement and is not in danger of dying out like those purely designed for social reasons).

I also agree that this may be because the Freemasons are so well known. They took advantage of misinformation (and spins on the Taxil hoax) to add to their "mystery"/secrecy and now its come around to bite them. Adding to this is the subjectivity of the philosophy. At one time in America you probably would find it hard to find a Freemason who was not also a Christian (or at least ascribe to a Christian based morality). As churches turn from the organization I think it will continue to decline. And I'm sure the biggest reason is the churches involvement in internet propaganda, but I wish it were on a more honest basis. '

When we oppose Freemasonry based on misinformation we only oppose Freemasonry. But if we look at it honestly and look at the real dangers and detractors to the church, then we are standing on the ground of Scripture and opposing the principles behind all of these types of organizations.

But....I suppose it's more fun to fight dragons than windmills. I suspect the fraternity will die out before Christians move from gossip to the real issues at hand.

 

[The Biblicist]

I appreciate the sincerity with which you hold your conclusions. I believe that you have the very best intentions, and I do not think that you are intentionally misleading people. I've encountered many sincere pastors that were dumbfounded as to why they failed to connect to so many Masonic church members as their churches divided. The reason, of course, is that their "study" showed what the experience of actual members (including 32 degree Scottish Rite members) proved false. Those pastors only preached to the choir who were equally ignorant about the fraternity.

I know that you are an intelligent man, and I don't want to insult your intelligence. I had read and studied what you present here long before I joined the masons. I read that along with the rebuttals, and I came to the conclusion that if I picked a side it would be out of ignorance. How do you know that you are right and I am wrong? You don't. You have simply chosen what you believe to be the most logical conclusion. How do I know that I am right and you are wrong? I studied the Freemasons from within the group. I read at the Scottish Rite library (many other takes on the degrees that rejected any remotely close to Albert Pike's ideas). I went through the Rite (32 degree mason). I went through the York Rite. I presided over a loge, conferred degrees, explained that everything was symbolism and subjective, and finished my experience as a Past Master. I know that I am right and you are wrong because I took the time (even if it was not the wisest thing to do) to find out.

You are trying to tell me that from a very wide perspective of Masonic writings which all agree with the conclusions I have presented concerning their history and intents that I am wrong but you are right simply because of your own personal experience and research. That reminds me of the Pentecostals who claimed that I did not know what I was talking about when it came to their speaking in tongues and baptism in the Spirit BECAUSE THEY HAD EXPERIENCED IT AND I HAD NOT. Well, I have never murdered a person, committed adultery (with regard to the acts) and yet I don't have to experience these things to know they are wrong.

I have had my own experiences with the Masons, but your experience and research trumps my experience and research. Sorry don't buy it!

In fact, your arguments make less sense the more they are put in light of what Masons have written from a very wide perspective. Job asked can a clean thing come from an unclean thing,not one. Masonism comes from an unclean thing and the multitude of masonic witnesses to their own origin and idealogy prove that is true. You simply cannot deny the luciferian symbolsim and doctrine found in their own writings and you cannot defend it as Christian. Instead, you flee to every man's own interpetation as though the Masonic organization had no specific intents behind such symoblisms when originating them?????????!!!!????? [edited - insults removed] Your defense of Masonism reminds me of how Catholic apoligists defend Rome and its writings, the very same techiques when faced with the very same kind of evidences contrary to their experiences and research. Yes, I am not a roman Catholic,never been in the church, never studied as much as the Roman apologist and therefore, I must be wrong, my research, my critiques of their writings and interpretations must be wrong and they must be right because I have never taken the time to join the order (Knights of the Templar???) and study their works and the interpretations of their works by their scholars. Right!

 

[JonC]

You are trying to tell me that from a very wide perspective of Masonic writings which all agree with the conclusions I have presented concerning their history and intents that I am wrong but you are right simply because of your own personal experience and research. That reminds me of the Pentecostals who claimed that I did not know what I was talking about when it came to their speaking in tongues and baptism in the Spirit BECAUSE THEY HAD EXPERIENCED IT AND I HAD NOT. Well, I have never murdered a person, committed adultery (with regard to the acts) and yet I don't have to experience these things to know they are wrong.

I have had my own experiences with the Masons, but your experience and research trumps my experience and research. Sorry don't buy it!

In fact, your arguments make less sense the more they are put in light of what Masons have written from a very wide perspective. Job asked can a clean thing come from an unclean thing,not one. Masonism comes from an unclean thing and the multitude of masonic witnesses to their own origin and idealogy prove that is true. You simply cannot deny the luciferian symbolsim and doctrine found in their own writings and you cannot defend it as Christian. Instead, you flee to every man's own interpetation as though the Masonic organization had no specific intents behind such symoblisms when originating them?????????!!!!????? yeah, right, just keep drinking the koolaide. The more I read you the less I believe your arguments?. Your defense of Masonism reminds me of how Catholic apoligists defend Rome and its writings, the very same techiques when faced with the very same kind of evidences contrary to their experiences and research. Yes, I am not a roman Catholic,never been in the church, never studied as much as the Roman apologist and therefore, I must be wrong, my research, my critiques of their writings and interpretations must be wrong and they must be right because I have never taken the time to join the order (Knights of the Templar???) and study their works and the interpretations of their works by their scholars. Right!

I am trying to tell you that Freemasonry is symbolic and subjective in its symbolism. This is true with its history as well (John J. Robinson wrote a very popular book that many take as history, but so did Davis....and the "histories" are different).
There are Masonic books about how Masons originated with King Solomon. But there are other books that relate them originating in England as a type of labor union during the Middle Ages. There are books that have them coming about as blue collar workers and then introducing the philosophers and artists until the latter defined the group. There are explanations that they originated from with the Catholic church. No one really denounces other views because it's subjective. The "official" stance is that no one knows (this is stated in the first degree ritual).

So yes, Masons have written in a very wide perspective. You have Albert Pike's interpretation. But you also have Duncan's and MacKay's interpretations. Add to this the hundreds and hundreds of other interpretations all differing. Which one is the "real" interpretation? If you ask the Freemasons, they will say all are real because Freemasonry is not a religion. It is what it is to the member.

Your inability to accept this fact does not make it less true. And my view that you are on the right side of the issue (against Freemasonry in the church) does not lessen the fact that you are sinning by bearing false witness on a group of people we both to whom we both object. Why should I consider your sin as any less than theirs?

"In some ways, the relationship between Masonry and religion is like the relationship between the Parent-Teacher Association (the P.T.A.) and education. Members of the P.T.A. believe in the importance of education. They support it. They assert that no man or woman can be a complete and whole individual or live up to his or her full potential without education. They encourage students to stay in school and parents to be involved with the education of their children. They may give scholarships. They encourage their members to get involved with and to support their individual schools.

But there are some things P.T.A.s do not do. They do not teach. They do not tell people which school to attend. They do not try to tell people what they should study or what their major should be.

In much the same way, Masons believe in the importance of religion. Masonry encourages every Mason to be active in the religion and church of his own choice. Masonry teaches that without religion a man is alone and lost, and that without religion, he can never reach his full potential.

But Freemasonry does not tell a person which religion he should practice or how he should practice it. That is between the individual and God. That is the function of his house of worship, not his fraternity, and Masonry is a fraternity, not a religion."

North Raleigh Masonic Lodge - J.J. Crowder #743

When we examine what a group of people believe we look at their stances. This is true of Calvinists, this is true of Arminianism, this is true of Christians, this is true of Islam, and this is true of Freemasons. You have no right to ascribe to them a belief they claim not to hold. It is dishonest and you should know it.

 

[JonC]

Your defense of Masonism

Are you literate? I am not defending the Masons any more than I would be defending Catholics if I were to say that they don't kill chickens on their altars.

I believe that Christianity and Freemasons do not jive, and that they are dangerous to the church. Where we disagree is that I also believe gullible Christians who believe anything they read is true as long as it makes them feel good about themselves and justifies what they want to say is right are just as dangerous.

You were a seminary student. If you defended your views in seminary with the sources and methods you defend your views here you would have never passed one course. It is intellectually lazy and willfully ignorant.

What I did was tell you what Freemasonry says. I've given you proof that this is what they say. Your response should be "then they are much more dangerous in the church than my fiction allowed" but instead it's insults and false charges against me. This leads me to think that YOU are much more dangerous in the church than a Freemason could ever be. Dishonestly is NEVER justifiable even if it is on the right side of an argument.

 

[Yeshua1]

I am an ex-mason who gave you honest answers to "important questions". I also gave you quotes from their ceremonies.

What is your response to your claim that Masons are buried in white linens and relying on ritual to get them to heaven when the funeral ritual denies your interpretation?

To what end do you believe the "higher" Masons, like your father, tricked Christians into worshiping Lucifer while believing that they were secure in the hands of Christ?

How do you reconcile the fact that your interpretation is foreign to my experience when you have never been a Mason and I am an ex-Mason and Past-Master?

I am looking at the ritual right now and I can see two things. First, there is no justification a Christian can make to remain a Freemason. Second, there is no justification that you can for the sin of being a false witness against those Christians who do remain Freemasons. They (Christian Masons) are yoking themselves with the world. You are sinning "with a high hand".

I never stated that christians were worshiping Lucifer, but it is true that at the highest levels within Free Masonrty, there has been dabbling into occult and other things Christians forbidden to get into by God
The white Apron might just be for Christians to wear when dead, but how can we partake with other religions at same time, who deny Jesus is Lord, such as masons who are Jewish /Muslims?

If there is no real spiritual danger and problems in free Masonry, why so many worshipful masters and lodge masters have renounced free masonry, and as being an evil religion/organization

 

[Yeshua1]

Are you literate? I am not defending the Masons any more than I would be defending Catholics if I were to say that they don't kill chickens on their altars.

I believe that Christianity and Freemasons do not jive, and that they are dangerous to the church. Where we disagree is that I also believe gullible Christians who believe anything they read is true as long as it makes them feel good about themselves and justifies what they want to say is right are just as dangerous.

You were a seminary student. If you defended your views in seminary with the sources and methods you defend your views here you would have never passed one course. It is intellectually lazy and willfully ignorant.

What I did was tell you what Freemasonry says. I've given you proof that this is what they say. Your response should be "then they are much more dangerous in the church than my fiction allowed" but instead it's insults and false charges against me. This leads me to think that YOU are much more dangerous in the church than a Freemason could ever be. Dishonestly is NEVER justifiable even if it is on the right side of an argument.

You are re interpreting all of those symbols and rite/rituals based upon a christian on them, which is a great thing, but you do seem to fail to see that there is a very dangerous occultist/even spiritual nature within the Free Masonry , as a serpent content to appear to bring unity among "brothers" in masonry, not based upon the truth of scriptures concerning religion and Christ!

 

[Yeshua1]

You are trying to tell me that from a very wide perspective of Masonic writings which all agree with the conclusions I have presented concerning their history and intents that I am wrong but you are right simply because of your own personal experience and research. That reminds me of the Pentecostals who claimed that I did not know what I was talking about when it came to their speaking in tongues and baptism in the Spirit BECAUSE THEY HAD EXPERIENCED IT AND I HAD NOT. Well, I have never murdered a person, committed adultery (with regard to the acts) and yet I don't have to experience these things to know they are wrong.

I have had my own experiences with the Masons, but your experience and research trumps my experience and research. Sorry don't buy it!

In fact, your arguments make less sense the more they are put in light of what Masons have written from a very wide perspective. Job asked can a clean thing come from an unclean thing,not one. Masonism comes from an unclean thing and the multitude of masonic witnesses to their own origin and idealogy prove that is true. You simply cannot deny the luciferian symbolsim and doctrine found in their own writings and you cannot defend it as Christian. Instead, you flee to every man's own interpetation as though the Masonic organization had no specific intents behind such symoblisms when originating them?????????!!!!????? [edited - insults removed] Your defense of Masonism reminds me of how Catholic apoligists defend Rome and its writings, the very same techiques when faced with the very same kind of evidences contrary to their experiences and research. Yes, I am not a roman Catholic,never been in the church, never studied as much as the Roman apologist and therefore, I must be wrong, my research, my critiques of their writings and interpretations must be wrong and they must be right because I have never taken the time to join the order (Knights of the Templar???) and study their works and the interpretations of their works by their scholars. Right!

I am not saying here that Jon C or any other Christian in the Masons are following Lucifer, or are themselves sinning against God, but do see Masonry itself as having very dangerous spiritual/religious underpinnings to it!

 

[JonC]

I never stated that christians were worshiping Lucifer, but it is true that at the highest levels within Free Masonrty, there has been dabbling into occult and other things Christians forbidden to get into by God
The white Apron might just be for Christians to wear when dead, but how can we partake with other religions at same time, who deny Jesus is Lord, such as masons who are Jewish /Muslims?

If there is no real spiritual danger and problems in free Masonry, why so many worshipful masters and lodge masters have renounced free masonry, and as being an evil religion/organization

The link you supplied denounced Masons as worshiping Lucifer and believers baptism as a false gospel. We have to be more careful. There has never been a reason to get into all the conspiracy garbage in order to argue against Freemasonry.

I don't know why Christians remain in those things. I even see Fraternial Order of Police stickers on cars at church (Sometimes Masonic ones too, but not as much).

 

[Yeshua1]

The link you supplied denounced Masons as worshiping Lucifer and believers baptism as a false gospel. We have to be more careful. There has never been a reason to get into all the conspiracy garbage in order to argue against Freemasonry.

I don't know why Christians remain in those things. I even see Fraternial Order of Police stickers on cars at church (Sometimes Masonic ones too, but not as much).

Good point, as I think my biggest concern on this is that it seems to draw too many Baptists into its nefarious web.

 

[tyndale1946]

Good point, as I think my biggest concern on this is that it seems to draw too many Baptists into its nefarious web.

Just a little side note... Unless one is pointed out to you, why is it that you have never seen a Mason?... If you have ever been to certain parades you have... Remember those men that have those funny hats that drive those tiny cars... Those are Shriners, who are an off branch of the Masons... I am not implying that these organizations do not do good work to the benefit of their fellowmen, be that as it may they are still a secret society... Check out this parade... Brother Glen