Freemasonry: Good, Bad, Indifferent

Yea, it's dying out. They were popular when "secret" societies were popular. Just about all the rest are gone (except those related to specific groups....like the Knights of Columbus [Catholic] and the Fraternal Order of Police [job related]).

I wonder why the only one addressed is the Masons. The others are about the same (very similar oaths and symbols...e.g., the pentagram and "all seeing eye" of the FOP).

 

I think sometimes the problem is that the Christians to find different enemies to fight, so they invent them (or become so gullible they will swallow whatever comes their way). This is, IMHO, a victory for the Enemy as local churches end up chasing their tails rather than doing the Kingdom work that God has purposed for them to do.

The problem is not Freemasonry or the fiction that has been attached to that organization. It is not the Fraternal Order of Police, the Elks lodge, the Moose Lodge or the Water Buffalos. It is not witchcraft in Harry Potter or backwards masked lyrics in “Another One Bites the Dust”).

The problem here is the church and Christians trying to do Kingdom work worldly ways. The problem is Christians who embrace secular humanism by joining the Masons to work as a “brotherhood of man” to solve the problem of sin. And the problem is well meaning but ignorant Christians who leave the security of the Cross to tackle this problem on their own but lose credibility, ultimately casting doubt on all they say to include the message of the gospel (if they ever get around to sharing it). Both are, IMHO, just as destructive in the church.

The church I told you about split over this issue. The Christians who were, had been, or knew about Freemasonry kicked the pastor out because he had disqualified himself in the pulpit (he preached worldly gossip as if it were truth). The pastor, sure his internet research was correct and having interpreted for himself what he had found in books and Bible introductions, left and took about half the congregation. Both sides blame the other, but both were to blame. Things happen for a reason. The church needed to die out (it is now two small dead churches) because they had lost their First Love.

 

I am an ex-mason who gave you honest answers to "important questions". I also gave you quotes from their ceremonies.

What is your response to your claim that Masons are buried in white linens and relying on ritual to get them to heaven when the funeral ritual denies your interpretation?

To what end do you believe the "higher" Masons, like your father, tricked Christians into worshiping Lucifer while believing that they were secure in the hands of Christ?

How do you reconcile the fact that your interpretation is foreign to my experience when you have never been a Mason and I am an ex-Mason and Past-Master?

I am looking at the ritual right now and I can see two things. First, there is no justification a Christian can make to remain a Freemason. Second, there is no justification that you can for the sin of being a false witness against those Christians who do remain Freemasons. They (Christian Masons) are yoking themselves with the world. You are sinning "with a high hand".

 

So why do you pick these sites instead of the hundreds that say Freemasonry is not a religion? Why do you believe the ex-Masons that say what you want them to say and not the ex-Masons that say otherwise?

The reason that you choose those sites is that they say what you want them to say. You know as well as I that we could just as easily link to sites saying the exact opposite. And I could link them here but I won't because this is exactly what I am talking about when I say that on this topic people like you are even more dangerous to the local church than are the Freemasons.

In fact, at least when you read the Freemason sites they are honest. They can't say too much because you could just as easily have a Freemason who worships Satan as you could a Christian worshiping God. My argument is that under the framework of Freemasonry these yoke themselves together. But at least they are honest.

YOU, on the other hand, ignored actual statements from the organization. AND as proof you offer a link to the Church of Christ website which is also arguing for baptismal regeneration. Are your sources valid? Do you believe that Baptists are going to hell because they don't believe that without water baptism one cannot be saved?

See....I told you that you belong to a group that handles snakes and believes in baptismal regeneration....at least we have proof I'm half right

 

I think that people get more defensive when it "hits home". Freemasonry is not nearly as common as it once was in churches. When I was young it was already going away. But we tend to overlook things like the FOP because so many belong to that organization (it is linked to law enforcement and is not in danger of dying out like those purely designed for social reasons).

I also agree that this may be because the Freemasons are so well known. They took advantage of misinformation (and spins on the Taxil hoax) to add to their "mystery"/secrecy and now its come around to bite them. Adding to this is the subjectivity of the philosophy. At one time in America you probably would find it hard to find a Freemason who was not also a Christian (or at least ascribe to a Christian based morality). As churches turn from the organization I think it will continue to decline. And I'm sure the biggest reason is the churches involvement in internet propaganda, but I wish it were on a more honest basis. '

When we oppose Freemasonry based on misinformation we only oppose Freemasonry. But if we look at it honestly and look at the real dangers and detractors to the church, then we are standing on the ground of Scripture and opposing the principles behind all of these types of organizations.

But....I suppose it's more fun to fight dragons than windmills. I suspect the fraternity will die out before Christians move from gossip to the real issues at hand.

 

I am trying to tell you that Freemasonry is symbolic and subjective in its symbolism. This is true with its history as well (John J. Robinson wrote a very popular book that many take as history, but so did Davis....and the "histories" are different).
There are Masonic books about how Masons originated with King Solomon. But there are other books that relate them originating in England as a type of labor union during the Middle Ages. There are books that have them coming about as blue collar workers and then introducing the philosophers and artists until the latter defined the group. There are explanations that they originated from with the Catholic church. No one really denounces other views because it's subjective. The "official" stance is that no one knows (this is stated in the first degree ritual).

So yes, Masons have written in a very wide perspective. You have Albert Pike's interpretation. But you also have Duncan's and MacKay's interpretations. Add to this the hundreds and hundreds of other interpretations all differing. Which one is the "real" interpretation? If you ask the Freemasons, they will say all are real because Freemasonry is not a religion. It is what it is to the member.

Your inability to accept this fact does not make it less true. And my view that you are on the right side of the issue (against Freemasonry in the church) does not lessen the fact that you are sinning by bearing false witness on a group of people we both to whom we both object. Why should I consider your sin as any less than theirs?

"In some ways, the relationship between Masonry and religion is like the relationship between the Parent-Teacher Association (the P.T.A.) and education. Members of the P.T.A. believe in the importance of education. They support it. They assert that no man or woman can be a complete and whole individual or live up to his or her full potential without education. They encourage students to stay in school and parents to be involved with the education of their children. They may give scholarships. They encourage their members to get involved with and to support their individual schools.

But there are some things P.T.A.s do not do. They do not teach. They do not tell people which school to attend. They do not try to tell people what they should study or what their major should be.

In much the same way, Masons believe in the importance of religion. Masonry encourages every Mason to be active in the religion and church of his own choice. Masonry teaches that without religion a man is alone and lost, and that without religion, he can never reach his full potential.

But Freemasonry does not tell a person which religion he should practice or how he should practice it. That is between the individual and God. That is the function of his house of worship, not his fraternity, and Masonry is a fraternity, not a religion."

North Raleigh Masonic Lodge - J.J. Crowder #743

When we examine what a group of people believe we look at their stances. This is true of Calvinists, this is true of Arminianism, this is true of Christians, this is true of Islam, and this is true of Freemasons. You have no right to ascribe to them a belief they claim not to hold. It is dishonest and you should know it.

 

Are you literate? I am not defending the Masons any more than I would be defending Catholics if I were to say that they don't kill chickens on their altars.

I believe that Christianity and Freemasons do not jive, and that they are dangerous to the church. Where we disagree is that I also believe gullible Christians who believe anything they read is true as long as it makes them feel good about themselves and justifies what they want to say is right are just as dangerous.

You were a seminary student. If you defended your views in seminary with the sources and methods you defend your views here you would have never passed one course. It is intellectually lazy and willfully ignorant.

What I did was tell you what Freemasonry says. I've given you proof that this is what they say. Your response should be "then they are much more dangerous in the church than my fiction allowed" but instead it's insults and false charges against me. This leads me to think that YOU are much more dangerous in the church than a Freemason could ever be. Dishonestly is NEVER justifiable even if it is on the right side of an argument.

 

The link you supplied denounced Masons as worshiping Lucifer and believers baptism as a false gospel. We have to be more careful. There has never been a reason to get into all the conspiracy garbage in order to argue against Freemasonry.

I don't know why Christians remain in those things. I even see Fraternial Order of Police stickers on cars at church (Sometimes Masonic ones too, but not as much).