1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Colossians 2, the "nailed it to his cross", what was "it"?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by One Baptism, Jul 3, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    71
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    1 Cor 6 does not bother me - (as we both know ) -- it simply proves that the wild speculation some folks offer in Col 2 does not stand up to a close review of scripture. It shows that the moral law of God STILL remains.

    So also does Eph 6:2
    So also does James 2j

    So also does the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19 admit to this obvious Bible detail.
     
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    71
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Matt 18 and 1 Cor 6 address that point.

    Matt 18 with "I forgave you all that debt..."

    And 1 Cor 6 making the claim that they had been washed and cleansed by the Holy Spirit.

    ---
    and then BOTH examples showing how they would lose salvation if not careful.
     
  3. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8,909
    Likes Received:
    2,128
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The whole of the Bible should bother you, but let that pass.
    Of course the moral law of God still remains (1 Corinthians 9:21), but as the 1689 Confession (Art. XIX:6) makes plain it no longer condemns the Christian (Romans 6:14) who has passed from death to life. It is his delight to keep it (Psalm 40:8); indeed, it is written on his heart (Hebrews 8:10).

    Now then, why are you so desperate to discuss anything except Colossians 2?
     
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    71
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    this clarification that God's Ten Commandments remain - as the moral law of God written on the heart under the NEW covenant (All TEN) is key to understanding Col 2.

    Col 2 is not about deleting scripture - it is about condemning the traditions and commandments of men.

    It is not the moral law of God that is deleted at the cross - it is our debt of sin that is being paid -- the "certificate of debt".

    And what is being condemned in Col 2 - is "man made tradition" and "making stuff up".

    Col 2
    4 I tell you this so that no one may deceive you by fine-sounding arguments.
    ...
    8 See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ.
    ...
    16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind.
    ...
    20 Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules: 21 “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? 22 These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings. 23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.

    NASB
    18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.

    20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as, 21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men? 23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.
     
    #124 BobRyan, Jul 23, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2017
  5. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8,909
    Likes Received:
    2,128
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Exactly so. The moral law stands against the unsaved sinner to condemn him and to drive him to Christ (Galatians 3:24). We cannot keep it in our own strength. Read Matthew 5:;22 and Matthew 5:28. But when we turn to Christ, we find that ALL or sins are forgiven. 'Let it be known to you, brethren, that through this man is preached to you the forgiveness of sins; and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses' (Acts 13:38-39). So when david had committed sins (adultery and murder) for which the Mosaic law prescribed only death, he could, as an O.T. believer in the Messiah, by-pass the Levitical priesthood, go straight to God, confess his sins and obtain forgiveness (Psalm 51). And so can we. Therefore the law, instead of standing over us, cane in hand, ready to condemn us, becomes our friend and our guide (Psalm 119:111-112, 127 etc.), leading us into the paths of righteousness, and we say, 'I delight to do Your will, O my God, and Your law is within my heart' (Psalm 40:8).

    'There is now therefore no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit' (Romans 8:1).
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    How can God ever re condeme whom Jesus died in place of, for God sees us in Christ as Keeping his Law perfectly, just as Jesus did, so to have any Christian lose salvation, God would have to disown Jesus!
     
  7. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,597
    Likes Received:
    20
    Are these passages related, one to the other?

    Colossians 2:14 KJB - "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross."

    Colossians 1:16 KJB - "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of am holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"

    Colossians 2:17 KJB - "Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."

    Colossians 2:20 KJB - "Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,"

    Ephesians 2:14 KJB - "For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;"

    Ephesians 2:15 KJB -"Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;"

    Ephesians 2:16 KJB - "And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby."

    Hebrews 9:1 KJB - "Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary."

    Hebrews 9:10 KJB - "Which stood only in meats and drinks, and diverse washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation."​
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Are we under the old or the new covenant?
     
  9. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,597
    Likes Received:
    20
    No, brother Yeshua1, we [whom are in Christ Jesus] are under the New Covenant.

    The mistake that a lot of well-meaning people make is that they think they have justification in the scripture [KJB] for teaching that the Ten Commandments are the Old Covenant, when they are not equal terms, demonstrable upon request.
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The are the moral code of God, but we are not saved by keeping them! If you keep 9 of them, but fail to keep 1, you failed!
     
  11. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,597
    Likes Received:
    20
    Brother, as Seventh-day Adventist, I (we, wheat) believe these (and every text in scripture (KJB) & James 2:8-12; Ephesians 2:8-10; Psalms 19:7; Isaiah 33:22, 42:21, 45:25, etc., on this point.

    We are saved by grace [God's] through faith (it also being gifted, to any who will receive it. God is no respecter of persons, and would have all men to be saved) ...

    Salvation, in Christ Jesus, brings us into obedience to the perfect will of God (Psalms 40:8; Exodus 20:1-17 KJB), that we keep, in His strength, that He provided at Calvary, all, the whole of the Ten Commandments, which includes the specific instruction regarding the 7th day, the holy Sabbath of the Lord as found in that Heavenly Ark - Exodus 20:8-11 KJB.

    To any who will not come into full harmony, atonement, with that character of God, the Ten Commandments, cannot enter the kingdom of Heaven, until they are born again, because the carnal mind is enmity (at war with, in rebellion to) the Law of God, even as they which spout 'holiness' and verily violate the very 4th Commandment that delineates who the Lawgiver is, having His name, title and authority over territory in it, and who the Creator, thus re-Creator is.

    Sin is the transgression of the Law - 1 John 3:4, in which is the 4th Commandment.

    Those who continue to justify their willful transgression of that Commandment, verily break them all, and will not enter Heaven, and will be lost, a castaway, a branch separated ready to be burned, a reprobate, etc. They verily choose their own practices over God's, and practice a SELF-righteousness, and verily teach that by their actions, they recreate themselves in an image they have chosen of themselves.
     
  12. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2016
    Messages:
    5,149
    Likes Received:
    293
    Since the 10 commandments are so important why do you say it is ok to KILL?

    SDA CHURCH and HOSPITAL continue to do abortions.

    The official stance of the church is ABORTIONS ARE ALLOWED.

    Here is the official website of SDA this is not some hate group, this is their official website with the church manual rules and guidelines.

    https://www.adventist.org/en/information/official-statements/guidelines/article/go/-/abortion/


    What is worst ? Worshiping God on the wrong day or killing innocent human beings for profit?
     
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Will all who have been born again here be forever saved?
     
  14. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,597
    Likes Received:
    20
    The answer, for each and every individual, will depend upon their continuing relational free will choices in response to Christ Jesus' will for their lives.

    If you will please, I would ask if you would consider Hebrews 6:4-8; look up the word "rejected", comparing to 1 Corinthians 9:27 KJB, "castaway", to begin with, and if you have a question, or would like to ask about any certain passage or text, we can do that, as time allows, but I may open another thread on it, to deal more specifically with the topic.

    Lucifer had at one time the perfect relationship with God, but came to choose otherwise.

    Because of his choices, sin came into existence, though it had/has no cause/excuse/reason to exist. In fact, sin itself, is a violation of the Law of Causality. Sin exists, but has no cause/reason for existence. Truly, the mystery of inquity.

    The Bible says, in Psalms 77:13 KJB - Thy way, O God, is in the sanctuary: who is so great a God as our God?

    As one prayerfully studies the Sanctuary, one will come to understand every true doctrine of God, even, the true Way. It is a complete system, containing the very plan of redemption, from its begining, unto the end.

    God is love. Love involves free will, it involves relationship.
     
  15. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2016
    Messages:
    5,149
    Likes Received:
    293

    Do the children who SDA CHURCH kills in ABORTION go to heaven?
     
  16. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8,909
    Likes Received:
    2,128
    Faith:
    Baptist
    OK. Salvation by works then. 'Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?' (Galatians 3:3).
     
  17. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2000
    Messages:
    15,371
    Likes Received:
    2,405
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Six Hour Warning
    This thread will be closed sometime after 4:30 PM Pacific.
     
  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Will rejecting the Sabbath cause me to lose salvation, or seeing Ellen White as a False prophetess?
     
  19. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2000
    Messages:
    15,371
    Likes Received:
    2,405
    Faith:
    Baptist
    This thread is closed.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...