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God controls quite a lot or God controls all?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by MennoSota, Aug 6, 2017.

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  1. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    What does the manager find unimportant? Is there an instance in the Bible where God, the manager, said he didn't feel something was important?
     
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  2. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Trying to put God into words or into a box is impossible. Every hair on my head is important to Him. Only He can determine what warrants His supernatural direct involvement. When does He supernaturally act and when does He simply let the Laws of nature which He decreed and established simply play out? Only He knows.
     
  3. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    There were all unimportant enough to not be recorded in Scripture.
     
  4. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Why does God have to let the "laws of nature" play out? Isn't that just a science term made up by humans who cannot comprehend how God acts?

    I don't see anything in the Bible that portrays God as "letting the laws of nature play out."
     
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  5. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Again, you are playing with words instead of looking at a concept. God told nature how to generally behave. Rock gets thrown into air, rock falls back to ground. Science attempts to understand and define it.
     
  6. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    LOL, you're working hard to create a theory from nothing.
     
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  7. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Let's reverse the question. What part of God's work in creation is not important?
     
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  8. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Psalms 146:1 Praise ye the LORD. Praise the LORD, O my soul.

    146:2 While I live will I praise the LORD: I will sing praises unto my God while I have any being.

    146:3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.

    146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

    146:5 Happy is he that hath the God of Jacob for his help, whose hope is in the LORD his God:

    146:6 Which made heaven, and earth, the sea, and all that therein is: which keepeth truth for ever:

    146:7 Which executeth judgment for the oppressed: which giveth food to the hungry. The LORD looseth the prisoners:

    146:8 The LORD openeth the eyes of the blind: the LORD raiseth them that are bowed down: the LORD loveth the righteous:

    146:9 The LORD preserveth the strangers; he relieveth the fatherless and widow: but the way of the wicked he turneth upside down.

    146:10 The LORD shall reign for ever, even thy God, O Zion, unto all generations. Praise ye the LORD.



    Psalms 147:1 Praise ye the LORD: for it is good to sing praises unto our God; for it is pleasant; and praise is comely.

    147:2 The LORD doth build up Jerusalem: he gathereth together the outcasts of Israel.

    147:3 He healeth the broken in heart, and bindeth up their wounds.

    147:4 He telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by their names.

    147:5 Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite.

    147:6 The LORD lifteth up the meek: he casteth the wicked down to the ground.

    147:7 Sing unto the LORD with thanksgiving; sing praise upon the harp unto our God:

    147:8 Who covereth the heaven with clouds, who prepareth rain for the earth, who maketh grass to grow upon the mountains.

    147:9 He giveth to the beast his food, and to the young ravens which cry.

    147:10 He delighteth not in the strength of the horse: he taketh not pleasure in the legs of a man.

    147:11 The LORD taketh pleasure in them that fear him, in those that hope in his mercy.

    147:12 Praise the LORD, O Jerusalem; praise thy God, O Zion.

    147:13 For he hath strengthened the bars of thy gates; he hath blessed thy children within thee.

    147:14 He maketh peace in thy borders, and filleth thee with the finest of the wheat.

    147:15 He sendeth forth his commandment upon earth: his word runneth very swiftly.

    147:16 He giveth snow like wool: he scattereth the hoarfrost like ashes.

    147:17 He casteth forth his ice like morsels: who can stand before his cold?

    147:18 He sendeth out his word, and melteth them: he causeth his wind to blow, and the waters flow.

    147:19 He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel.

    147:20 He hath not dealt so with any nation: and as for his judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the LORD.



    Psalms 148:1 Praise ye the LORD. Praise ye the LORD from the heavens: praise him in the heights.

    148:2 Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, all his hosts.

    148:3 Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light.

    148:4 Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens.

    148:5 Let them praise the name of the LORD: for he commanded, and they were created.

    148:6 He hath also stablished them for ever and ever: he hath made a decree which shall not pass.

    148:7 Praise the LORD from the earth, ye dragons, and all deeps:

    148:8 Fire, and hail; snow, and vapours; stormy wind fulfilling his word:

    148:9 Mountains, and all hills; fruitful trees, and all cedars:

    148:10 Beasts, and all cattle; creeping things, and flying fowl:

    148:11 Kings of the earth, and all people; princes, and all judges of the earth:

    148:12 Both young men, and maidens; old men, and children:

    148:13 Let them praise the name of the LORD: for his name alone is excellent; his glory is above the earth and heaven.

    148:14 He also exalteth the horn of his people, the praise of all his saints; even of the children of Israel, a people near unto him. Praise ye the LORD.



    Psalms 149:1 Praise ye the LORD. Sing unto the LORD a new song, and his praise in the congregation of saints.

    149:2 Let Israel rejoice in him that made him: let the children of Zion be joyful in their King.

    149:3 Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp.

    149:4 For the LORD taketh pleasure in his people: he will beautify the meek with salvation.

    149:5 Let the saints be joyful in glory: let them sing aloud upon their beds.

    149:6 Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a two-edged sword in their hand;

    149:7 To execute vengeance upon the heathen, and punishments upon the people;

    149:8 To bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron;

    149:9 To execute upon them the judgment written: this honour have all his saints. Praise ye the LORD.


    Psalms 150:1 Praise ye the LORD. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power.

    150:2 Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness.

    150:3 Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.

    150:4 Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.

    150:5 Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.

    150:6 Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD.


    GOD is in complete control... Brother Glen:)










     
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  9. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Where do we find God telling nature how to "generally" behave? I don't see that in the Bible. You seem to be forcing this concept because you cannot imagine a non-random world.
     
  10. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    This chapter and the next was written for those who do not understand who is in complete control

    Job 38King James Version (KJV)

    38 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,

    2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?

    3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.

    4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

    5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

    6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

    7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

    8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?

    9 When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,

    10 And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,

    11 And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?

    12 Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place;

    13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?

    14 It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment.

    15 And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken.

    16 Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth?

    17 Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death?

    18 Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all.

    19 Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof,

    20 That thou shouldest take it to the bound thereof, and that thou shouldest know the paths to the house thereof?

    21 Knowest thou it, because thou wast then born? or because the number of thy days is great?

    22 Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail,

    23 Which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war?

    24 By what way is the light parted, which scattereth the east wind upon the earth?

    25 Who hath divided a watercourse for the overflowing of waters, or a way for the lightning of thunder;

    26 To cause it to rain on the earth, where no man is; on the wilderness, wherein there is no man;

    27 To satisfy the desolate and waste ground; and to cause the bud of the tender herb to spring forth?

    28 Hath the rain a father? or who hath begotten the drops of dew?

    29 Out of whose womb came the ice? and the hoary frost of heaven, who hath gendered it?

    30 The waters are hid as with a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen.

    31 Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?

    32 Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?

    33 Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?

    34 Canst thou lift up thy voice to the clouds, that abundance of waters may cover thee?

    35 Canst thou send lightnings, that they may go and say unto thee, Here we are?

    36 Who hath put wisdom in the inward parts? or who hath given understanding to the heart?

    37 Who can number the clouds in wisdom? or who can stay the bottles of heaven,

    38 When the dust groweth into hardness, and the clods cleave fast together?

    39 Wilt thou hunt the prey for the lion? or fill the appetite of the young lions,

    40 When they couch in their dens, and abide in the covert to lie in wait?

    41 Who provideth for the raven his food? when his young ones cry unto God, they wander for lack of meat.
     
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  11. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Reynolds,

    Brother, God is so sovereign that you were born to whom you were, where you were born, when you were born, all that you had no say in. You had no say in who your parents were. You had no say in what area of God's earth you were born in. You had no say in what time of history you were born into.

    Yeah, He's sovereign like that.
     
  12. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Look at Elijah. God had ravens feed him and then God said he had a widow He commanded to feed him.

    Yeah, God is sovereign like that.
     
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  13. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    God does not want you to sin ever again, So I guess you no longer sin.

    Or does God not control all? Is God not sovereign?

    Or does God want you to sin?
     
  14. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    We've been over your tired schtick and shown where you are wrong. (Romans 7&8)

    Since we still sin, does God consider sin unimportant? Is God not in control when we sin? Is God less Sovereign because He chooses not to judge sin immediately?
     
  15. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    You will give account for every word you speak at the judgment.
     
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  16. Rob_BW

    Rob_BW Well-Known Member
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    Why not both?

    We are given command, to evangelize and disciple, for instance. But then we are also given a Counselor and Helper.

    So, obviously earthly comparisons will always fall short, but the superior equipping subordinates in addition to commanding subordinates sounds like its veering into management territory.
     
  17. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Do you have biblical support or are you just spit balling off the top of your head?
    As humans we try to personify God as a human being rather than consider Him as the omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient God-being that He is.
     
  18. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    There are too many verses to list but i Have told you over and over: God is all powerful and nothing and no one will escape His power and judgement.

    Isaiah 14:24 The Lord of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand:
    Proverbs 16:9 A man's heart deviseth his way: but the Lord directeth his steps.
    Proverbs 19:21 There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the Lord, that shall stand.
    Proverbs 19: 5 A false witness shall not be unpunished, and he that speaketh lies shall not escape.
    Deuteronomyy 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

    Sir, Read the verses above carefully. It's the same theme throughout the Bible: God, even now, "sets before you this day", "Sin, righteousness, and judgement". But it is you who "deviseth your way", it is you who decide in your heart the path you want to take. God's Holy Spirit tugs at your heart, trying to get you to choose Jesus....choose LIFE. That is how He "purposed" it and that is how "it shall stand". He is in perfect and complete control of His purpose. But if you don't know Him, He will judge you. It's coming.
     
  19. Rob_BW

    Rob_BW Well-Known Member
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    Do I really need to pull up the verses that speak of the Holy Spirit as Counselor and Helper? John 14:26
     
  20. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Of course uou realize that an atheist could say:
    You do not control whom you were born to, where you were born, when you were born, all that you had no say in. You had no say in who your parents were. You had no say in what area of earth you were born in. You had no say in what time of history you were born into.
     
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