God controls quite a lot or God controls all?

[TCassidy]

Ordained to do or ordained to happen; no practical difference.

I agree. Two sides of the same coin. But this is common when sloppy terminology is used.

When God decrees something to happen He is the First Cause.

When God permits something to happen He is not the First Cause.

And therein lies the difference.

 

[TCassidy]

When the Jack the Ripper does his sin, is that caused by God or not?

Define "caused."

Did God "cause" it to happen as a Decree, He being First Cause?

Or did God allow it to happen as permitted, He not being the First Cause?

(I just realized how utterly futile this post is, asking you to be precise in your terminology!)

 

[Yeshua1]

Define "caused."

Did God "cause" it to happen as a Decree, He being First Cause?

Or did God allow it to happen as permitted, He not being the First Cause?

(I just realized how utterly futile this post is, asking you to be precise in your terminology!)

I was asking the poster if he sees God causing Jack to do his sinning!

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Six Hour Warning
This thread will be closed sometime after 4:30 PM Pacific.

 

[Yeshua1]

Define "caused."

Did God "cause" it to happen as a Decree, He being First Cause?

Or did God allow it to happen as permitted, He not being the First Cause?

(I just realized how utterly futile this post is, asking you to be precise in your terminology!)

Option 2!

 

[InTheLight]

If you don't understand the difference you are not qualified to participate in this discussion.

I understand the Calvinist definitions. Doesn't mean there is a practical difference.

Also, if the standard of intimately understanding something before commenting on it applied to everybody on BB for all topics, there would be no one allowed on here.

 

[Reynolds]

If you don't understand the difference you are not qualified to participate in this discussion.

You and Mennosota do not agree on it. He was lecturing on it being an unbiblical concept.(I agree with you, by the way.)

 

[Reynolds]

I agree. Two sides of the same coin. But this is common when sloppy terminology is used.

When God decrees something to happen He is the First Cause.

When God permits something to happen He is not the First Cause.

And therein lies the difference.

I fully agree. That is why I have a huge problem with the typical Calvinistic view of Job.

 

[MennoSota]

You and Mennosota do not agree on it. He was lecturing on it being an unbiblical concept.(I agree with you, by the way.)

Ordained by God. Here's a good article on my view.
Ordained by God by Douglas Kelly

 

[InTheLight]

I agree. Two sides of the same coin. But this is common when sloppy terminology is used.

When God decrees something to happen He is the First Cause.

When God permits something to happen He is not the First Cause.

And therein lies the difference.

So.....

When God is the First Cause of something isn't he, by definition, exercising more control over something than if he permits something to happen and is not the First Cause?

And isn't this the crux of the entire thread?

 

[Iconoclast]

Word games. Ordained to do or ordained to happen; no practical difference.

The difference is who is the cause for that which happens.
This is not a word game, it us the reason truth eludes you on this topic....you will get no help from in the light as he names true ideas then denies they are truth as he evidently misses the Context on every passage he seeks to flee from.

 

[Iconoclast]

Word games. Ordained to do or ordained to happen; no practical difference.

Did you listen to the posted sermons?

 

[Reynolds]

Ordained by God. Here's a good article on my view.
Ordained by God by Douglas Kelly

Its vague. Do you believe God has a single will or a perfect and a Permissive will? (Or whatever you want to call it)
I understand and mostly agree with Cassidy on this issue.

 

[MennoSota]

Its vague. Do you believe God has a single will or a perfect and a Permissive will? (Or whatever you want to call it)
I understand and mostly agree with Cassidy on this issue.

I believe God wills whatever he pleases and his will is always perfect and good so that even the evil all around us is woven into the tapestry of his good and perfect will.

I have no idea how that plays out with God as He is a mystery to my finite senses. What I know comes from what God has chosen to reveal in His holy word. It is futile for me to surmise beyond that.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

This thread is closed.

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