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I want to see an Arminian Exegete this passage

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Calv1

Calv1

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Romans 1-7
I ask, then, a member of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel? “Lord, they have killed your prophets, they have demolished your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life.” 4 But what is God's reply to him? “I have reserved for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5 So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. 6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

7 What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened, 8 as it is written,

“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes that would not see
and ears that would not hear,
down to this very day.”
 
SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

Well-Known Member
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This oughta be good...

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D

Don

Well-Known Member
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I'm not here to "exegete"; I'm curious what your point may be.

Having skimmed your posts in the past, and this being the cal/arm forum, I think you may be trying to make the point of predestination. That would indicate that some of the key words in the passage would be "foreknew," "remnant," and "elect." But those depend on pre-conceived definitions. For example, are you defining "foreknowledge" as "prior knowledge," or connecting it to "prior selection"? The same with the reference to remnant; in the context of the passage, are you implying that there are only 7,000, or that 7,000 is a sub-set of a larger number?
 
InTheLight

InTheLight

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Reynolds said:
I thought you were one. I have gotten the feeling that on here that if you are not a very strict 5 point Calvinist then you are an Arminian.
Click to expand...
I believe in eternal security. I don't buy conditional atonement.

If you aren't a 5 pointer you will be called all sorts of names on here. Pelagian, semi-Pelagian, universalist, etc.

Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo.
 
kyredneck

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
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InTheLight said:
Non-Cal.
Click to expand...

I believe Aaron may have been the first to introduce that handle to the BB. I've always appreciated his quote and signature at one time:

"Ever and anon the non-Cal cries, "Why doth He still find fault"".

I think it sums it up rather concisely. Doesn't matter if you're free willer, synergist, Arminian, non-Cal, etc., that is the root of the controversy.
 
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MennoSota

MennoSota

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InTheLight said:
I believe in eternal security. I don't buy conditional atonement.

If you aren't a 5 pointer you will be called all sorts of names on here. Pelagian, semi-Pelagian, universalist, etc.

Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo.
Click to expand...
If the shoe fits...
 
MennoSota

MennoSota

Well-Known Member
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Calv1 said:
Romans 1-7
I ask, then, a member of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel? “Lord, they have killed your prophets, they have demolished your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life.” 4 But what is God's reply to him? “I have reserved for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5 So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. 6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

7 What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened, 8 as it is written,

“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes that would not see
and ears that would not hear,
down to this very day.”
Click to expand...
Did you mean Romans 11:1-7?

1 I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel? 3 “Lord, they have killed Your prophets, they have torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they are seeking my life.” 4 But what is the divine response to him? “I have kept for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5 In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God’s gracious choice. 6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.
7 What then? What Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were hardened; 8 just as it is written,
“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
Eyes to see not and ears to hear not,
Down to this very day.”

Is there even a semi-pelagian willing to exegete?
 
R

Revmitchell

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Are there any actual "Arminians" on this board or is that just being used as a generic term for those who are not a Calvinist?
 
TCassidy

TCassidy

Late-Administator Emeritus
Administrator
There are some 5 point Arminians in the "Other Christians" side of the board.

Most 5 Pointers see the points as "either/or." If you don't accept Point #1 of the Canons of Dordt you are considered to accept the opposing point of the Remonstrance. And so on.

Most Baptists, with the exception of some "Free Will Baptists," accept Point #5 of Dort so, at worst, they would be 4 point Arminians.

Dort:

1. Total Depravity.

Remonstrance:

1. Depravity is less than total.

Dort:

2. Unconditional Election.

Remonstrance:

2. Conditional Election.

Dort:

3. Limited Atonement.

Remonstrance:

3. Unlimited Atonement.

Dort:

4. Efficacious Grace.

Remonstrance:

4. Non-efficacious grace.

Dort:

5. Preservation of the believer.

Remonstrance:

5. Unsure, but leave open the possibility that the believer will not be preserved unto the end.

(#5 is actually rejected by both sides in certain ways. The "pure" Arminians deny eternal security and the more radical of the "Lordship Salvationists" deny believers who fall into sin will be preserved.)
 
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