Martin Lloyd-Jones and antinomianism

[JamesL]

I'm curious what your thoughts might be on this article, and the position laid out there in - namely, if you are not being accused of teaching antinomianism and licentiousness, you simply aren't preaching the same gospel that Paul preached....

Lloyd-Jones on The Gospel and the Charge of Antinomianism - Feeding on Christ


I ask because rarely have I heard a presentation of the gospel and come away thinking "wow, he's teaching that people can get saved and live however they want"

I have been accused of that by virtually every brand and stripe of Christian, however. And most unbelievers have misunderstood along those lines as well

Now, I'm not asking for someone to answer that charge.

I'm asking what are your thoughts on your presentation of the Gospel. Has it been your experience to be charged with antinomianism when you share Christ with people?

And what do you think of the idea that if you aren't charged with antinomianism, you aren't sharing the real gospel?

 

[TCassidy]

There have been some Arminians (not those who have been called Arminian by Calvinists, but real Arminians who deny the eternal security of the believer) who have accused me of believing "you can get saved then live any way you please." My response to that was, "Do you desire to 'live any way you please'?" If so maybe you were never actually saved. I teach that when a person is truly saved that God changes his "wanter." The things he used to want he no longer wants and the things he now wants he never wanted before. So, if you still want to live like the devil maybe God never changed your "wanter." That usually shuts them up.

 

[JamesL]

There have been some Arminians (not those who have been called Arminian by Calvinists, but real Arminians who deny the eternal security of the believer) who have accused me of believing "you can get saved then live any way you please." ....

Yes, not the fake Arminians but the real Arminians...

I know what you mean. The real Arminians are usually the first to hurl the accusation. I did it when I was an Arminian

 

[HankD]

OF COURSE, After I was saved I lived the way I pleased!

Of course, sin didn't please me anymore.

Jesus did. Still does.

HankD

 

[Rob_BW]

Thanks for posting that article. It showed a far different facet of Martin Lloyd-Jones than the last article/anecdote on the man that I read.

 

[JamesL]

Thanks for posting that article. It showed a far different facet of Martin Lloyd-Jones than the last article/anecdote on the man that I read.

That's why I posted it. It gave me an entirely different impression of the man than what I had previously

 

[HankD]

Who wants to jump into a hog waller, hogs or sheep?

2 Peter 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

These were never sheep in the first place.

HankD

 

[kyredneck]

Has it been your experience to be charged with antinomianism

Many times, but not by that actual term, everyday common folks never heard that word. It's almost zactly as TCassidy said, along the lines of, "If that's the way it is then it means you can go out and do anything you want to". And ive used zactly the same comeback as TCassidy, "Is that what you want to do? Sin?" I've also replied along these lines, "If it's the way you say it is then I'm a goner. I'm going to hell because I can't walk out of this room without sinning".

 

[kyredneck]

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under law, but under grace? God forbid. Ro 6

Yea, I've gotten these kinds of responses several times.

 

[JamesL]

Many times, but not by that actual term, everyday common folks never heard that word. It's almost zactly as TCassidy said, along the lines of, "If that's the way it is then it means you can go out and do anything you want to". And ive used zactly the same comeback as TCassidy, "Is that what you want to do? Sin?" I've also replied along these lines, "If it's the way you say it is then I'm a goner. I'm going to hell because I can't walk out of this room without sinning".

When you share the gospel, do you anticipate the "yeah, but..." and incorporate an answer into the gospel presentation?

Or do you present the gospel as if there won't be any "yeah, but..." and only answer if it comes up?

I think that's what Martyn Lloyd Jones was getting at. Most people try to answer all of the objections within the gospel itself and end up with something totally foreign to scripture.

there's a fear that the grace of God will be misunderstood as a license to sin. So a preacher makes commitment an integral part of the message.

He makes absolute sure that he is not giving anyone a license to sin, but he's also made sure he hasn't actually shared the gospel

 

[Martin Marprelate]

You have only to go onto the 'other Christian forums' section here and teach justification by faith alone to get a reaction from the RCs, SDAs and others.

But on the other hand, just recently, we have had folk on this forum teaching that one could be a 'carnal Christian' and live like the devil, but still be saved.

 

[TCassidy]

But on the other hand, just recently, we have had folk on this forum teaching that one could be a 'carnal Christian' and live like the devil, but still be saved.

Yes. People like the Apostle Paul. 1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

 

[HankD]

Yes. People like the Apostle Paul. 1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

I would venture to say that folks who don't believe that a Christian can live like the devil have never been in the ministry.

But what difference does it make anyway when we go after them whether for restitution or rebirth?

The Word of God is the cure.

Hebrews 4
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.


HankD

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Yes. People like the Apostle Paul. 1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

Do you really think that Paul is telling the Corinthians that they can live like the devil and still be saved?
I have read Lloyd-Jones' writings extensively and I can assure you that he did not have that view.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

I would venture to say that folks who don't believe that a Christian can live like the devil have never been in the ministry.

I am in the ministry, and I am well aware of the sins into which Christians can fall. However.......
'I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God' (Galatians 5:21).

 

[Yeshua1]

I'm curious what your thoughts might be on this article, and the position laid out there in - namely, if you are not being accused of teaching antinomianism and licentiousness, you simply aren't preaching the same gospel that Paul preached....

Lloyd-Jones on The Gospel and the Charge of Antinomianism - Feeding on Christ


I ask because rarely have I heard a presentation of the gospel and come away thinking "wow, he's teaching that people can get saved and live however they want"

I have been accused of that by virtually every brand and stripe of Christian, however. And most unbelievers have misunderstood along those lines as well

Now, I'm not asking for someone to answer that charge.

I'm asking what are your thoughts on your presentation of the Gospel. Has it been your experience to be charged with antinomianism when you share Christ with people?

And what do you think of the idea that if you aren't charged with antinomianism, you aren't sharing the real gospel?

Sounds like he and Chuck Swindol thought alike, as Chuch in Grace book makes exact same point!

 

[JamesL]

Sounds like he and Chuck Swindol thought alike, as Chuch in Grace book makes exact same point!

Do people make that charge against you?

 

[Yeshua1]

Do people make that charge against you?

Yes, as have had some accuse me of not upholing the Law well enough, that I was supporting "live as you want"

 

[TCassidy]

Do you really think that Paul is telling the Corinthians that they can live like the devil and still be saved?

Is that what I said. Where did I say that. Could you give me a thread and post # on that?

 

[HankD]

I am in the ministry, and I am well aware of the sins into which Christians can fall. However.......
'I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God' (Galatians 5:21).

Revelation 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.


HankD