What Do You Feel About John Hagees' Teaching on the Jews...

[robycop3]

Back to the theme of this thread -

Jesus performed miracles in front of many Jews that SHOULD'VE seen he was messiah, and the Pharisees & Sanhedrin members who were the most-versed in Old Testament prophecy then, should've been in the forefront of seeing this, as they often foliowed Jesus' acts, looking for violations of their rules.

It never occurred to the men of Nazareth to investigate and find He was born in Bethlehem, or that messiah would be called a Nazarene.

And yes, SOME Jews realized He was Messiah, such as those in Jerusalem who wanted to make Him king as He rode the donkey's colt into town, and a few were undoubtedly familiar with the prophecy that he would do this, but for most, fear of the Pharisees, sanhedrin, & the Romans guided their thoughts & actions.

And many, such as Iscariot, were bitterly disappointed when Jesus didn't overthrow the Romans as they expected of Messiah. they hadn't learned the prophecy that Messiah was to be "cut off" before he led the Jews to greatness.

I believe those Jews were guilty of the same thing many of US are guilty of - NOT STUDYING SCRIPTURE ENOUGH! Jesus' "it is written" is as true today as it is now. And they paid the penalty for that. Let US not be guilty of that!

 

[kyredneck]

I recommend you study a little Latin & a little history.

....and that will change the findings of genetic research how?

It's a really hard pill for you Christian Zionists to swallow, the thought that the Palestinians have as much of a DNA claim to Palestine (more actually, because they've never left the land) than those that are slowly committing genocide on their own blood kin- with U.S. tax dollars and support to appease the potent Christian Zionist lobby.

Hadrian crushed. He then expelled the Jews entirely outta the Roman empire

Is this yet another Dispy fable, or a robycop3 fib? Expulsion of Jews from the entire empire? Didn't happen. Hadrian never even expelled all the Jews from Palestine.

Jewish Virtual Library

"...Following the battle of Bethar, there were a few small skirmishes in the Judean Desert Caves, but the war was essentially over and Judean independence was lost. The Romans plowed Jerusalem with a yoke of oxen. Jews were sold into slavery and many were transported to Egypt. Judean settlements were not rebuilt. Jerusalem was turned into a pagan city called Aelia Capitolina and the Jews were forbidden to live there. They were permitted to enter only on the 9th of Av to mourn their losses in the revolt. Hadrian changed the country’s name from Judea to Syria Palestina.

In the years following the revolt, Hadrian discriminated against all Judeo-Christian sects, but the worst persecution was directed against religious Jews. He made anti-religious decrees forbidding Torah study, Sabbath observance, circumcision, Jewish courts, meeting in synagogues and other ritual practices. Many Jews assimilated and many sages and prominent men were martyred including Rabbi Akiva and the rest of the Asara Harugei Malchut (ten martyrs). This age of persecution lasted throughout the remainder of Hadrian’s reign, until 138 C.E."

Your claim that Hadrian expelled the Jews from the Roman Empire is phony. He didn't even expel all of them them from Palestine.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Has this ever bothered you?

John Hagee on Salvation for the Jews...

John Hagee, who pastors a church in Texas with an active membership of over 19,000 and who has a radio and television ministry that reaches 99 million homes, has written a book, which, by his own admission, is an attack on the very foundations of the Christian faith! In a video promoting his new book, Hagee makes the following claims:

“In Defense of Israel will shake Christian theology. It scripturally proves that the Jewish people as a whole did not reject Jesus as Messiah. It will also prove that Jesus did not come to earth to be the Messiah. It will prove that there was a Calvary conspiracy between Rome, the high priest, and Herod to execute Jesus as an insurrectionist too dangerous to live. Since Jesus refused by word and deed to claim to be the Messiah, how can the Jews be blamed for rejecting what was never offered? Read this shocking exposѐ, In Defense of Israel.”

So what do you think...

I lost interest after "John Hagee". He's a false teacher and a nut.

 

[David Kent]

I completely agree with this excerpt from monergism.com:

"Dispensationalism is a relatively modern hermeneutic, or way of interpreting the scriptures, that has roots in the teachings of John Darby, was greatly popularized by C. I. Scofield, through the notes in his study bible, became influential through the establishment of Dallas Theological Seminary and many of its professors, including Lewis Sperry Chafer and Charles Ryrie, and has been greatly sensationalized and made influential at a popular level through the fiction and dramatic predictions and interpretations of authors such as Hal Lindsey and Tim LaHaye. Today, Dispensationalism is hugely influential worldwide, having a significant impact not just on the doctrine of the Church, but even on global politics, as the Dispensationally-driven Christian Zionist movement, championed by such men as John Hagee, has largely shaped America's Middle Eastern policies for many years."

What is Dispensationalism?

Actually, in his Morning Watch Magazine, Edward Irving claimed to be the first to preach on dispenationalism on Christmas day 1825 and again the same day a year later.

 

[David Kent]

Actually, Baptists trace back to the Church at Pentecost, in the sense that we hold to true Apostolic doctrines, unlike Church of Rome!

But they can't prove it.

 

[David Kent]

Most Baptists around here try to go all the way back to John The Baptist.

John was under the law.

 

[David Kent]

Actually, in his Morning Watch Magazine, Edward Irving claimed to be the first to preach on dispenationalism on Christmas day 1825 and again the same day a year later.

You can find he \Morning Watch online but you will have to page through the issues as I did, acually it didn't take too long.

 

[kyredneck]

John was under the law.

Some would debate that:

16 The law and the prophets were until John: from that time the gospel of the kingdom of God is preached, and every man entereth violently into it. Lu 16

Though I DO agree with you . I believe the law covenant officially came to an end here:

51 And behold, the veil of the temple was rent in two from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake; and the rocks were rent; Mt 27

 

[David Kent]

Matthew 11 11

 

[kyredneck]

v 13: For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

...comparing scripture with scripture, the simplest and most effective of all hermeneutics.

 

[Reynolds]

John was under the law.

Most baptists in this geographic area act like they are too. Baptists like me get called all kinds of nasty names.

 

[TCassidy]

John was under the law.

Technically the 4 Gospels, up to the Crucifixion, were "under the law."

Hebrew 9:16 For where a last will and testament is, there must of necessity be the death of him who made it.
17 For a will is in force where there has been death, for it is never in force while he who made it lives.

 

[Yeshua1]

Technically the 4 Gospels, up to the Crucifixion, were "under the law."

Hebrew 9:16 For where a last will and testament is, there must of necessity be the death of him who made it.
17 For a will is in force where there has been death, for it is never in force while he who made it lives.

Yes, as the New Covenant technically came in at day of Pentecost...

 

[FollowTheWay]

I do not consider Hagee to be a Christian, just as I consider Joel Osteen to be a heretic. Both congregations are being lead by a wolf in sheeps clothing.

I absolutely agree with you concerning both of these preachers. To Osteen you can add Norman Vincent Peale and Robert Schuller.

 

[robycop3]

....and that will change the findings of genetic research how?

It's a really hard pill for you Christian Zionists to swallow, the thought that the Palestinians have as much of a DNA claim to Palestine (more actually, because they've never left the land) than those that are slowly committing genocide on their own blood kin- with U.S. tax dollars and support to appease the potent Christian Zionist lobby.



Is this yet another Dispy fable, or a robycop3 fib? Expulsion of Jews from the entire empire? Didn't happen. Hadrian never even expelled all the Jews from Palestine.

Jewish Virtual Library

"...Following the battle of Bethar, there were a few small skirmishes in the Judean Desert Caves, but the war was essentially over and Judean independence was lost. The Romans plowed Jerusalem with a yoke of oxen. Jews were sold into slavery and many were transported to Egypt. Judean settlements were not rebuilt. Jerusalem was turned into a pagan city called Aelia Capitolina and the Jews were forbidden to live there. They were permitted to enter only on the 9th of Av to mourn their losses in the revolt. Hadrian changed the country’s name from Judea to Syria Palestina.

In the years following the revolt, Hadrian discriminated against all Judeo-Christian sects, but the worst persecution was directed against religious Jews. He made anti-religious decrees forbidding Torah study, Sabbath observance, circumcision, Jewish courts, meeting in synagogues and other ritual practices. Many Jews assimilated and many sages and prominent men were martyred including Rabbi Akiva and the rest of the Asara Harugei Malchut (ten martyrs). This age of persecution lasted throughout the remainder of Hadrian’s reign, until 138 C.E."

Your claim that Hadrian expelled the Jews from the Roman Empire is phony. He didn't even expel all of them them from Palestine.

As I said, you really need to study the Bar Kokhba revolt & its aftermath in greater detail. It was definitely not a good time to be a Jew in any Rome-controlled territory.

This persecution was similar to Hitler's, except the Romans didn't have the modern tech the nazis had. Hadrian and Co. passed laws that forbade Jews from being Jewish. The remaining Jews in the Roman empire were forbidden to study the Torah, worship in their traditional manner, or follow the Jewish customs. Christians were similarly "picked on", but not as severely as the Jews were.

And Hadrian definitely gave their land to the Philistines. That's the basis for the Palestinians' claims on the land today. But GOD'S PROMISE has authority over any decree of man's, and He definitely made promises of land to the Israelis And He WILL perform His promise, be it at the expense of the Palestinians or any other gentiles occupying the promised lands.

And yes, the Jews are no longer a "pure" people. Over the years, the ancestors of most of today's Jews interbred with many other peoples, as the Philistines did. far back as David's time, the 900s BC, some Jews were interbred with Jebusites, Kenites, Midianites, Egyptians, and who but God knows who else, but GOD knows whom is who! Remember, God said that not one "true kernel" shall be left out.

 

[AwesomeMachine]

I read the entire thread. I must remark on the civility of the members of this board. Through the years I've been on several Christian-type boards, none of which proved to actually be Christian. But most of what I've read on BB is authentic, or at least it is sincere.

But there are some mistaken doctrines I've run across in this particular thread. The Philistines, although the word sounds something like Palestine, were immigrants from the Island of Crete, near Greece. Cretans were known to be rough, rude, hostile, physically mighty, warrior-like and pagan.

Palestine was an ancient land known to be near the original garden of paradise. It is known for its red clay and early evening winds. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the Philistines.

Palestinians and Jews are genetically related, as are Jews and Arabs. Abraham is father of both Ishmael and Isaac. Ishmael is father to the Arabs, and Isaac is father to Jacob, who is father to the twelve tribes of Israel. The contention between the Jews and the Arabs is rooted in biblical scripture.

God said to Abraham, "Since you have asked, I will make Ishmael father of twelve mighty kingdoms. But My inheritance shall be given to Isaac." So, according to the Bible, the Jews have the Inheritance of God; they are the rightful heirs to God's Kingdom. Further on in scripture we find, "Cast out both slave girl and son together. For the son of the slave girl has no inheritance with the son of the free woman."

Abraham's wife, Sarah, is the legitimate wife: the free woman; the mother of Isaac, who is the father of Israel. Sarah's maidservant, Hagar, is the slave girl, mother of Ishmael, who is the father of the Arabs. Therefore, as God has said, His inheritance is with the Jews, not with the Arabs.

But they are genetically related.

 

[tyndale1946]

I absolutely agree with you concerning both of these preachers. To Osteen you can add Norman Vincent Peale and Robert Schuller.

I remember a remark made by one of our preachers in the pulpit... He said after reading Peale and The Apostle Paul, he found Peale appalling and Paul appealing... Brother Glen

 

[Yeshua1]

I absolutely agree with you concerning both of these preachers. To Osteen you can add Norman Vincent Peale and Robert Schuller.

And also pretty much of the so called Word of faith teachers!

 

[FollowTheWay]

I remember a remark made by one of our preachers in the pulpit... He said after reading Peale and The Apostle Paul, he found Peale appalling and Paul appealing... Brother Glen

I've heard NV Peale speak 3 times, once at marble Collegiate Church. His ideas about positive thinking are worthwhile but not the gospel. Trump calls Marble Collegiate his home church but the church says he isn't active.

Donald Trump is not an active member, church says - CNNPolitics

 

[Martin Marprelate]

'Since Jesus refused by word and deed to claim to be the Messiah....'

Mark 14:61-62.