-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Just really how new is the New Covenant then?
- Thread starter Yeshua1
- Start date
This is the difference between paedobaptist C.T. and its Baptist alternative.
Paedobaptist C.T. sees the new covenant as being a renewal of the old, and therefore baptism is a replacement of circumcision and should therefore be performed upon infants.
Baptist C.T. sees the New Covenant as just that--new. '"Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them......out of the land of Egypt.......for they will all know Me from the least of them to the greatest of them," declares the LORD' (Jeremiah 31:32-34).
If the only people in the new covenant are those who know the Lord, only such people are candidates for baptism.
Paedobaptist C.T. sees the new covenant as being a renewal of the old, and therefore baptism is a replacement of circumcision and should therefore be performed upon infants.
Baptist C.T. sees the New Covenant as just that--new. '"Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them......out of the land of Egypt.......for they will all know Me from the least of them to the greatest of them," declares the LORD' (Jeremiah 31:32-34).
If the only people in the new covenant are those who know the Lord, only such people are candidates for baptism.
true, but would not the New Covenant be the Old one branching out to include all saved now within spiritual israel? That was a question got asked by one holding to Covenant theology.
I guess it depends on exactly what you believed the Old Covenant to be. I believe it refers to the covenant given to Israel after Israel had existed for centuries (rather than the covenant God made with Abraham, which predates Israel).
The old covenant embraced [some of] the physical descendants of Abraham. The new covenant embraces his spiritual descendants (eg. Galatians 3:29).
So both saved and lost were included under the Old one given to Israel, but only saved now under the New One?
Does the new one build upon the prior Abrahamic covenant to now include gentiles, or is it a new one, stand alone?
The Abrahamic Covenant included Gentiles. I mean both were within the Abrahamic Covenant. It stands apart from the Old Covenant. Gentiles are grafted into God's people in fulfillment of God's covenant with Abraham.
The new Covenant is the summation and fulfillment of that promise then?
I don't know I'd call it a summation, but I do see it as being within the Abrhamic Covenant.
So you would not see it as being a brand new One then?
I would see it as a brand new covenant, but one foreseen within the Abrahamic Covenant. Paul emphasized this point when arguing the inclusion of Gentiles within the people of God (he reached back to God's promise to Abraham in order to explain the nature of the New Covenant in terms of incorporating people not of the Old).
I would agree with you here, as the actual Covenant relationship being established had to wait until messiah came and died and rose again, and the coming of the Holy Spirit as He did at Pentecost.
I see the Abrahamic Covenant as an unconditional promise of an inheritance to his descendants, with a two-fold fulfillment:
First, and unconditionally, his physical descendants would have an inheritance of a piece of property which would become their corporate possession (with a kingdom)
The "Old Covenant" with Israel was a conditional promise to secure and retain that possession - individually and corporately. The condition was that they keep the law written in stone and handed to them on Mount Sinai. It was meant only for Israel. But they failed.
Second, and more far-reaching, and not fully explained until later, Abraham's descendants according to his faith will have an eternal inheritance (and kingdom).
The second aspect includes a "New Covenant extended to invlude Gentiles, who were not included in the first Covenant. This is the mystery spoken of in Ephesians 2, how both Jew and Gentile have been brought together into one body
This promise is still to Abraham, and unconditionally includes all those who have the same faith as Abraham.
This New Covenant also has a conditional element. Instead of being handed a law chiseled in stone, we have been given the eternal Spirit of God at Mount Calvary. The Eternal inheritance will be secured buy those who are led by the Holy Spirit
First, and unconditionally, his physical descendants would have an inheritance of a piece of property which would become their corporate possession (with a kingdom)
The "Old Covenant" with Israel was a conditional promise to secure and retain that possession - individually and corporately. The condition was that they keep the law written in stone and handed to them on Mount Sinai. It was meant only for Israel. But they failed.
Second, and more far-reaching, and not fully explained until later, Abraham's descendants according to his faith will have an eternal inheritance (and kingdom).
The second aspect includes a "New Covenant extended to invlude Gentiles, who were not included in the first Covenant. This is the mystery spoken of in Ephesians 2, how both Jew and Gentile have been brought together into one body
This promise is still to Abraham, and unconditionally includes all those who have the same faith as Abraham.
This New Covenant also has a conditional element. Instead of being handed a law chiseled in stone, we have been given the eternal Spirit of God at Mount Calvary. The Eternal inheritance will be secured buy those who are led by the Holy Spirit
Let us get a bit more specific. The Old Covenant is typically synonymous with the Mosaic Covenant. The Mosaic Covenant only revealed Christ and the future New Covenant in types and shadows. Covenant Theologians and the framers of the 1689 Second London Baptist Confession of Faith understood the New Covenant to be one and the same with an overall Covenant of Grace. I quote from the 1689 LBC:
1689 LBC, 7.2 Moreover, man having brought himself under the curse of the law by his fall, it pleased the Lord to make a covenant of grace, wherein he freely offereth unto sinners life and salvation by Jesus Christ, requiring of them faith in him, that they may be saved; and promising to give unto all those that are ordained unto eternal life, his Holy Spirit, to make them willing and able to believe.
The Covenant of Grace was promised in the Old Covenant through types and shadows but was not realized until Christ's death, resurrection, and the bequeathing of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. Pentecost was the inauguration of the New Covenant.
1689 LBC, 7.2 Moreover, man having brought himself under the curse of the law by his fall, it pleased the Lord to make a covenant of grace, wherein he freely offereth unto sinners life and salvation by Jesus Christ, requiring of them faith in him, that they may be saved; and promising to give unto all those that are ordained unto eternal life, his Holy Spirit, to make them willing and able to believe.
The Covenant of Grace was promised in the Old Covenant through types and shadows but was not realized until Christ's death, resurrection, and the bequeathing of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. Pentecost was the inauguration of the New Covenant.
Actually, the Old one was conditional, based upon obedience to God, and were mainly physical blessings, while the new one is totally unconditional, and with all spiritual blessings!
Spoken like a good reformed Baptist!
Lol, deja vu, reference post #10 for my comments:
Did the new Covenant Continue the Old One, or Replace it?
[add]
....check out Aaron's post, #25...
Last edited:
Yes, the "Old" covenant was conditioned upon keeping the Law.
The "New" covenant is conditioned upon following the Holy Spirit.
Both are a matter of blessing