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Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by John of Japan, Sep 6, 2017.

  1. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    My parents went to Wheaton with Dr. Hendricks back in the 1940's. They called him "Howie."

    My son teaches hermeneutics here--and refuses to let me horn in on it. He starts the first class with what not to do--an Internet video that tries to make out Obama as the Antichrist using numerology. Hilarious!
     
  2. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Amen! Yes, he graduated with a Bachelor's degree in 1946. Then a Th.M. from Dallas in 1950. A truly great man. His student's just called him "Prof." :)

    LOL! I know some guys like that.

    [Whisper]But does he know of the book his great grandfather wrote, then recalled, in about 1940 or 1941?[/Whisper] :D:D:D
     
  3. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Ooh, do we have to go there? (Low voice: The one where JRR thought Mussolini was the Antichrist?)
     
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  4. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    LOL! Shhhhhhh! It will be just our secret! :D:D:D
     
  5. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    This thing of studying all by yourself (and exceeding in knowledge people who put the hard work in to graduate from Bible college and seminary) reminds me of when I was an assistant instructor in a kung fu school, and two guys wandered in and wanted to spar. Their style was "Jeet Coonee Dough," and they were completely self taught. (They meant Jeet Kune Do, Bruce Lee's method.) I did a side kick to the head of one, stopping an inch away, and he said with wild eyes, "What was that?" It was a basic side kick, taught to our students in the very first lesson.

    Let's not brag about our ignorance, okay? :rolleyes:
     
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  6. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    My virtual lips are totally sealed. :Barefoot

    Gotta go home. My wife's out of town and I'm at MickeyD's. Catch you later.
     
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  7. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    John, our little banter at your grand-dad's expense brings up a question.

    I am aware that JRR was Historic Premill, but was he, as most Historic Premills tend to be, post trib too? Some of his writings caused me to think he may have at least leaned toward pre-trib?

    In the interest of full disclosure I am Historic Pre-Mill but lean, ever so slightly, toward pre-trib, largely through a healthy self interest. :)
     
  8. Covenanter

    Covenanter Well-Known Member
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    My post was deadly serious. Do they study the Bible, or do they study interpreting the Bible? Are they the heirs of the Scofield Bible "legacy" that saw that "Bible" freely distributed to the students as a readily available one volume commentary?

    The great perpetrator of religious fiction, Tim LaHaye went to THREE Bible colleges.
    Bob Jones University (B.A.)
    Western Seminary (D.Min.)
    Liberty University (D.Litt)
    What did he learn at Bible College?

    Why did more than 50 million Americans buy into that dispensationalist fiction? And is it the basis for US foreign policy that sees billions of taxpayers money poured into the state of Israel, providing free health care & education, while those who pay those taxes do not receive those benefits?

    Do they learn the simplistic "say this prayer to become a Christian" rather than Gospel preaching?
     
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  9. OnlyaSinner

    OnlyaSinner Well-Known Member
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    I'm not sure that citing one person whose eschatology differs from one's own as a reason to downplay the potential value of learning from the Bible using the experience of folks who have studied it intensively. There are plenty of "educated fools" out there, but they don't warrant tossing the baby out with the bathwater.
    Also, I wonder about the quotes around "Bible" in reference to the Scofield works. I have a 1960s edition of the Scofield version, and it looks to me like the AV, though I'd have preferred an older version with the modernized terms for archaic in the margin, rather than in the text and margin-noted to the original terms. All of Scofield's comments are clearly noted as such, and I've found some to be quite helpful, though one who might consider the faintest whiff of dispensationalism to be toxic would doubtless think otherwise.
     
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  10. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Amen! The only thing worse than an "educated fool" is an "uneducated fool!" :)
     
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  11. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    The late Dr. B. Myron Cedarholm founder and president of Maranatha Baptist Bible College (now MBU) said on many occasions,
    Dr. Cedarholm took exception to Schofield's Gap Theory and his Universal Church.


    From the 1977-1978 MBBC Catalog:
    B. Myron Cedarholm, B.A, B.D., Th.M. D.D Litt.D., L.H.D. Iowa State College, University of Minnesota, Eastern Baptist Theological Seminary, Princeton Theological Seminary, Northwestern Schools, Baptist Bible College [Denver], Bob Jones University

     
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  12. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    He was always pretrib, to my knowledge. Being in the SBC in his youth (possibly until 1955), he came to a premil position through personal Bible study. He never embraced dispensationalism, but admired Scofield and often quoted him, sometimes positively and sometimes to disagree. So the Scofield Bible may be what steered him to pretrib.

    And you are forgiven for leaning, ever so slightly, to post trib. :Coffee
     
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  13. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Lean in to your computer. A little closer. They study the Bible at any good Baptist College that I know of, for Pete's sake.
    This is logically irrelevant and even incoherent. Taking one graduate of these schools with whose theology you disagree, and making that mean that Bible college students don't study the Bible is a complete non sequiter.
    Personally, I am not so arrogant as to say that anyone not believing in my dispensationalism is believing theological fiction. :Coffee
    American aid does not go to providing free health care and education for Israelis. Don't know where you got that. And actually, American public education is free. I went through 13 years of it myself. And any American (or illegal immigrant, for that matter) has access to free emergency room care anywhere in the 50 states. Please, get your facts right, Brit.
    Never learned that at Bible college or seminary, myself, and I have attended 4 fundamental schools and teach at another. The only class this would be taught in is one on personal evangelism, and they don't teach that here where I teach, and the Japanese textbook I wrote on the subject didn't teach it either.

    P. S. I never heard of any Bible college anywhere giving free Scofield Bibles to their students. You must have picked that one out of the ether--the 19th century scientific version, that is.
     
    #53 John of Japan, Sep 11, 2017
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  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I am sure you are aware that two well studied people, both indwelt with the Holy Spirit, can carefully study a verse or passage and conclude two very different meanings. We see through a glass darkly. That is why church leaders consider issues prayerfully and meditate and seek counsel so that the consensus reflects the leading of the Holy Spirit. And that is why Baptist polity gives deference to a consensus of believers.

    You should study what scripture says about individuals grasping for power, and thinking they are the smartest people in the room.
    Remember God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble. There is a big difference between opening the eyes of others to the intended message of scripture, and telling others what to think.
     
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  15. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Yes, and one view of a Spirit indwelt believer can be Dispensationalism and another can be historic premil and another dispensationalism.
    Hmm. I wonder who we are meant to think of as "proud" and who as "humble" in this post?? :Biggrin
     
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  16. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    I was just checking my record, and I took 37 credits of undergrad Bible. (I'm not even including my seminary training.) At the usual 14 class hours for each credit, that's a total of 518 actual class hours of sitting under the teaching of godly, well-studied men such as Dr. Wymal Porter or Dr. Dennis Wisdom. (That does not include the hundreds of hours I spent studying for these classes.) What an awesome privilege I had of being taught by these wonderful men of God at Tennessee Temple. I truly thank God for my education at Bible colleges and seminaries, and for the godly, wise scholars who taught me.

    This does not include the chapel and revival and missionary conference services I was required to attend, hearing some of the greatest preachers of the day: Lee Roberson, John R. Rice, Monroe Parker, E. J. Daniels, R. G. Lee (preaching "Payday Someday"), and many, many more. I would not trade my Bible college education for a billion dollars.

    The "wannabe" Bibliologist (like Pidgeon) touts his own personal study as being authoritative over sitting in the classroom of godly and wise scholars. That's baloney, malarkey, and self-delusion.
     
    #56 John of Japan, Sep 11, 2017
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  17. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Amen. At the M.Div. level I studied not only Hebrew, Greek, OT Theology. Systematic Theology, Church History, History of Fundamentalism (George W. Dollar was Dean my last two years), History of Israel, Hermeneutics, Homiletics, Pastoral Theology, Pastoral Counseling, Christian Education, Research Methodology, and English Bible.

    Of all the courses, English Bible was the most interesting, and comprehensive. English Bible-OT Introduction, English Bible-NT Introduction, English Bible-Genesis, English Bible-The Poetry Books, English Bible-The Major Prophets, English Bible-The Minor Prophets, English Bible-The Gospels. English Bible-Acts, English Bible-Romans, English Bible-The Pauline Epistles, English Bible-Hebrews, English Bible-The General Epistles, English Bible-The Revelation, and probably more that I can't remember off the top of my head (after all, it has only been 45 years ago that I was in Seminary).

    The idea that we didn't study English Bible is the most ludicrous thing I ever read on the BB! (And, I am fairly certain it was born out of desperation to win an argument he is unqualified to participate in.) :(
     
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  18. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    You clobbered that nail right on the head. :Coffee
     
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  19. Covenanter

    Covenanter Well-Known Member
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    Absolutely wrong - the educated fools tend to claim credit for their educational status & so can do far more damage than an uneducated fool whose lack of education coupled with his folly mean he will be ignored - until, by the Holy Spirit, the folly he preaches is owned as the power of God for salvation.

    What does Scripture say?
    20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. 22 For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
     
  20. Covenanter

    Covenanter Well-Known Member
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    I have since looked up "Methods of Bible Study," & find the course is concerned with "Interpretive methods for understanding the literature of the New (& Old) Testament....... "


    My wife studied theology at the University of Hull, where we met while I was studying chemistry. There was one Bible believing lecturer, the others were modernist. One needs to choose one's Bible college carefully, & not all new students will have the wisdom or guidance to choose wisely. The advice of Pastors was not to go to Bible college for theological qualifications, but study sound theology books with the guidance of a Reformed Pastor.

    I believe the US has the same problem of modernist or fundamentalist, with reformed, dispensationalist, charismatic, etc, colleges to confuse the prospective student.

    The soundness of your college, its Bible teaching & its theological position may be excellent, but it could be questioned by those of a different persuasion.
     
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