Ever and anon . . .

[Aaron]

. . . the cry of the noncalvinist is, "Why doth He yet find fault?"

Mark Corbett: But if faith is an irresistible gift that does not depend on us choosing in any way, than why does God not give this gift to everyone? Predestination and Foreknowledge​

And the answer is the same as was supplied millennia ago: I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

It also is far from clear that Romans 9:13 is referring to Esau's eternal destiny. It may be referring to the fact that God chose Jacob and his descendants (Israel) to have a special role in salvation history which Esau and his descendants were not chosen for.

Did Edom have a representative stone on the breastplate of the High Priest?

 

[SovereignGrace]

Why hasn't anyone from the opposing view addressed this?

 

[Rob_BW]

Because I've never asked myself that question.

Read it in here a few times, and I'm still not sure exactly what the point of it is.

 

[Katarina Von Bora]

Why hasn't anyone from the opposing view addressed this?

Dan Wallace wrote an article on corporate and individual election.

Here is the link and an excerpt:

https://credohouse.org/blog/corperate-election-dan-wallace


If that is what you mean by corporate election, then I would reject it. Here are the reasons why:

First, the authors you cited seemed to make a conceptual-lexical equation (i.e., if the word “elect” was used, only groups were in view; ergo, election is only corporate). That view has been regarded by linguists and biblical scholars as linguistically naïve. James Barr in his Semantics of Biblical Language (Oxford, 1961) makes a lengthy and devastating critique of Kittel’s ten-volume Theological Dictionary of the New Testament for its numerous linguistic fallacies. Among them is this conceptual-lexical equation. Allow me to unpack this a bit more: conceptual-lexical equation means that one does not find the concept unless he sees the words. That seems to be an underlying assumption in the authors you cited. However, where else do we argue this? Would we not say that the concept of fellowship occurs everywhere in the New Testament? Yet the word κοινωνια is found only twenty times. Or consider the deity of Christ: If we could only speak of Christ’s deity in passages where he is explicitly called “God,” then we are shut up to no more than about half a dozen texts. Yet the New Testament wreaks of the deity of Christ—via his actions, attributes that are ascribed to him, Old Testament quotations made of him, implicit and explicit statements made about him. Hence, our first question needs to be: Do we see the concept of election as a corporate notion or an individual one?

God Bless

 

[utilyan]

One group believes God is so Powerful everything he does is GOOD, Another believes God is so GOOD everything he does is Powerful.


Evil will always spit on kindness, mercy, humility as a weakness.



"I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion."

That can mean the possibility of no mercy to anyone and mercy to all.


The insult is in presuming God's mercy to be lesser.


Common theme I hear. "what is unbelievable to me is that God would save ANYONE! because he has the full right to damn all"

They don't see the insult to God in that statement. Because its reflective of one's own image of God.


You might be given the right to slap your mother's face. What would you think of me for presuming you do and probably often, Then my believing there is no way you would ever touch her?



When judgment day comes how are you going to sugar coat the accusation?

Lord, the next case is hilarious, a complete joke, this self-proclaimed servant of yours, he thought you were so kind and loving, He so erroneously thought you were such a GOOD thing, he actually thought you were going to save the world, can you believe that!?

 

[Katarina Von Bora]

One group believes God is so Powerful everything he does is GOOD, Another believes God is so GOOD everything he does is Powerful.


Evil will always spit on kindness, mercy, humility as a weakness.



"I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion."

That can mean the possibility of no mercy to anyone and mercy to all.


The insult is in presuming God's mercy to be lesser.


Common theme I hear. "what is unbelievable to me is that God would save ANYONE! because he has the full right to damn all"

They don't see the insult to God in that statement. Because its reflective of one's own image of God.


You might be given the right to slap your mother's face. What would you think of me for presuming you do and probably often, Then my believing there is no way you would ever touch her?



When judgment day comes how are you going to sugar coat the accusation?

Lord, the next case is hilarious, a complete joke, this self-proclaimed servant of yours, he thought you were so kind and loving, He so erroneously thought you were such a GOOD thing, he actually thought you were going to save the world, can you believe that!?

You have completely ignored the context which is God choosing Jacob and rejecting Esau.

 

[SovereignGrace]

You have completely ignored the context which is God choosing Jacob and rejecting Esau.

Its best to put Uti and Van on ignore, as that's what they do with 95+% of the scriptures. This will save you a HUGE headache.

 

[utilyan]

You have completely ignored the context which is God choosing Jacob and rejecting Esau.

Figure of speech. Jesus says to hate your mother and father, Simply Jesus takes priority, Jacob definitely needed it.

Unless you want to argue that you actually do hate your mother and father as commanded by Jesus Christ.

There is a perfect constitution in the bible 1 Corinthians 13.

1If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

 

[utilyan]

Here is my question. God commands that no man sin, so why are we some how clueless to what he desires for all?


10This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.

If you don't know who are the "elect" are I got some sorry news for you.

 

[Aaron]

Because I've never asked myself that question.

Read it in here a few times, and I'm still not sure exactly what the point of it is.

I would wager it's the basis of your objection to Calvinism. That it is somehow unjust of God to choose one and reject another based on His own will, and not on the basis of some act or attitude of the one being chosen.

 

[Aaron]

One group believes God is so Powerful everything he does is GOOD, Another believes God is so GOOD everything he does is Powerful.


Evil will always spit on kindness, mercy, humility as a weakness.



"I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion."

That can mean the possibility of no mercy to anyone and mercy to all.


The insult is in presuming God's mercy to be lesser.


Common theme I hear. "what is unbelievable to me is that God would save ANYONE! because he has the full right to damn all"

They don't see the insult to God in that statement. Because its reflective of one's own image of God.


You might be given the right to slap your mother's face. What would you think of me for presuming you do and probably often, Then my believing there is no way you would ever touch her?



When judgment day comes how are you going to sugar coat the accusation?

Lord, the next case is hilarious, a complete joke, this self-proclaimed servant of yours, he thought you were so kind and loving, He so erroneously thought you were such a GOOD thing, he actually thought you were going to save the world, can you believe that!?

LOL.

So your argument is that something is insulting?

I stand amazed . . .

 

[utilyan]

LOL.

So your argument is that something is insulting?

I stand amazed . . .

I too stand amazed by what folks expect of God.

Yeah if God showed up and said "I have got something you two deserve!", He turns his back and quickly turns around, you are most likely to have your arms sprawled over your head in terror.

God asks, "Whats wrong with him?"

He is okay, Father..........(lean to whisper) ...He's a Calvinist.

Believing all deserve hell.

"you can get more of what you want with a kind word and a gun than you can with just a kind word" --Al Capone

 

[Katarina Von Bora]

Its best to put Uti and Van on ignore, as that's what they do with 95+% of the scriptures. This will save you a HUGE headache.

I see that. It's amazing to me that people think that the Apostle Paul was a schizophrenic. Shameful to abuse the scriptures.

 

[finlandia]

Yeah if God showed up and said "I have got something you two deserve!"

What do you think humans deserve?

 

[utilyan]

What do you think humans deserve?

37Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink. 38“He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, ‘From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.’” 39But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

28“Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. 29“Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS. 30“For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

1“Ho! Every one who thirsts, come to the waters;
And you who have no money come, buy and eat.
Come, buy wine and milk
Without money and without cost.

2“Why do you spend money for what is not bread,
And your wages for what does not satisfy?
Listen carefully to Me, and eat what is good,
And delight yourself in abundance.

 

[finlandia]

37Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink. 38“He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, ‘From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.’” 39But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

28“Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. 29“Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS. 30“For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

1“Ho! Every one who thirsts, come to the waters;
And you who have no money come, buy and eat.
Come, buy wine and milk
Without money and without cost.

2“Why do you spend money for what is not bread,
And your wages for what does not satisfy?
Listen carefully to Me, and eat what is good,
And delight yourself in abundance.

Let me rephrase.

What do YOU think humans deserve?

 

[utilyan]

Let me rephrase.

What do YOU think humans deserve?

Love.

 

[Rob_BW]

I would wager it's the basis of your objection to Calvinism. That it is somehow unjust of God to choose one and reject another based on His own will, and not on the basis of some act or attitude of the one being chosen.

Well, I hope you don't mind being wrong.

 

[Aaron]

Well, I hope you don't mind being wrong.

Well, that would mean the Spirit is wrong. It was He who said, "Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth He yet find fault."

I have no doubt that were we to boil it down, that would be your objection.

 

[Aaron]

I too stand amazed by what folks expect of God.

Yeah if God showed up and said "I have got something you two deserve!", He turns his back and quickly turns around, you are most likely to have your arms sprawled over your head in terror.

God asks, "Whats wrong with him?"

He is okay, Father..........(lean to whisper) ...He's a Calvinist.

Believing all deserve hell.

"you can get more of what you want with a kind word and a gun than you can with just a kind word" --Al Capone

T'was brillig and the slithy toves did gyre and gimble in the wabe.