9/11 Revisited

[asterisktom]

Hey, to disabuse you of your long-held beliefs of that tragic day will take time. Taking it step-by-step is necessary.

You'll notice, Rippon, that most of the naysayers either go for the ridicule (tinfoil hat) or the broad brush (if you believe in this you must also believe conspiracies x, y, z.). But this shouldn't stop us from talking about 9/11. Amidst all the flak there are always some political Bereans whose minds are willing to change.

I know because I used to make fun of my wife for believing 9/11 was an inside job. But after a while I had to admit she was right.

 

[Rippon]

Thanks for the new thread Tom.

John Farmer was the Senior Counselor of the 9/11 Commission.

He wrote a book called The Ground Truth : The Untold Story of America Under Attack on 9/11.

Part of the intro said :
"Ultimately, Farmer builds the inescapably convincing case that the official version not only is almost entirely untrue but serves to create a false impression of order and security."

 

[asterisktom]

Thanks for the new thread Tom.

John Farmer was the Senior Counselor of the 9/11 Commission.

He wrote a book called The Ground Truth : The Untold Story of America Under Attack on 9/11.

Part of the intro said :
"Ultimately, Farmer builds the inescapably convincing case that the official version not only is almost entirely untrue but serves to create a false impression of order and security."

Maybe I'll check that book out once I get back from vacation. I remember reading of others on that commission expressing frustration that evidence was withheld on several points of investigation, especially in regard,to WT7.

One thing I remember from the first days of the events is how the narrative shifted.

 

[JPPT1974]

Yeah as our world changed forever on that day sixteen years ago.

 

[asterisktom]

Yeah as our world changed forever on that day sixteen years ago.

Yep. Arguably, one might say it had already changed on 9/10. That is when the trillions of dollars went missing.

Another odd note, a puzzle piece that doesn't fit, is that we went to war against Afghanistan even though most of the alleged instigators were Saudi.

 

[rsr]

Thanks for the new thread Tom.

John Farmer was the Senior Counselor of the 9/11 Commission.

He wrote a book called The Ground Truth : The Untold Story of America Under Attack on 9/11.

Part of the intro said :
"Ultimately, Farmer builds the inescapably convincing case that the official version not only is almost entirely untrue but serves to create a false impression of order and security."

You realize, of course, that Farmer didn't question that planes with people crashed and brought down buildings. What he criticizes is the defense establishment's covering up the strategic deficiencies that allowed it to happen.

 

[Covenanter]

Yep. Arguably, one might say it had already changed on 9/10. That is when the trillions of dollars went missing.

Another odd note, a puzzle piece that doesn't fit, is that we went to war against Afghanistan even though most of the alleged instigators were Saudi.

And are alive & well, flying with Saudi airlines

 

[Covenanter]

Over there you may not be familiar with the supposed suicide of David Kelly who provided the information that led to the allegation that the case for invading Iraq was being "sexed up."

The inquest results are sealed for 70 years.

 

[asterisktom]

Over there you may not be familiar with the supposed suicide of David Kelly who provided the information that led to the allegation that the case for invading Iraq was being "sexed up."

The inquest results are sealed for 70 years.

I remember reading about Kelly's supposed suicide. He was another person who, to use the cliche, knew too much. Several have died for the same reason on this side of the pond.

 

[TCassidy]

Everybody knew Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. We sold them to them.

 

[asterisktom]

You realize, of course, that Farmer didn't question that planes with people crashed and brought down buildings. What he criticizes is the defense establishment's covering up the strategic deficiencies that allowed it to happen.

Not true, at least concerning WT7. That is, Farmer didn't even mention WT7 so how can you say he believed a plane brought it down? The very fact that he, in a position to know *something* entirely glossed over WT7 speaks volumes.

 

[TCassidy]

The very fact that he, in a position to know *something* entirely glossed over WT7 speaks volumes.

He did not address the burning issue of who killed cock robin, either, so he must be guilty of a cover up.

He didn't mention the grassy knoll either, so he must be part of the conspiracy to kill Kennedy.

I will try to make this easy. Planes brought down the WTC buildings. The planes were not well enough tracked to alert ATC of the problem until it was too late. The ADIZ Ready planes were too late being launched and too far away to engage the hijacked planes. What he did was raise the roof on why our ATC system is so over loaded that we can't keep decent track of two B757s and 2 B767s, and why our ADIZ Ready planes took so long to get on station.

 

[Reynolds]

You'll notice, Rippon, that most of the naysayers either go for the ridicule (tinfoil hat) or the broad brush (if you believe in this you must also believe conspiracies x, y, z.). But this shouldn't stop us from talking about 9/11. Amidst all the flak there are always some political Bereans whose minds are willing to change.

I know because I used to make fun of my wife for believing 9/11 was an inside job. But after a while I had to admit she was right.

Present credible facts and change my mind. Most of the "facts" used by the conspiracy crowd are easily disproven.

 

[Reynolds]

Everybody knew Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. We sold them to them.

Yes we did. We set them up manufacturing them as well.

 

[Reynolds]

He did not address the burning issue of who killed cock robin, either, so he must be guilty of a cover up.

He didn't mention the grassy knoll either, so he must be part of the conspiracy to kill Kennedy.

I will try to make this easy. Planes brought down the WTC buildings. The planes were not well enough tracked to alert ATC of the problem until it was too late. The ADIZ Ready planes were too late being launched and too far away to engage the hijacked planes. What he did was raise the roof on why our ATC system is so over loaded that we can't keep decent track of two B757s and 2 B767s, and why our ADIZ Ready planes took so long to get on station.

The first armed jets in the air were S.C. National Guard jets.

 

[TCassidy]

The first armed jets in the air were S.C. National Guard jets.

That was another issue he tore into the DoD about. Why was Lt. Heather Penney's F-16 cleared to the active runway at Andrews Air Force Base for takeoff when they knew the plane was unarmed?

 

[Reynolds]

That was another issue he tore into the DoD about. Why was Lt. Heather Penney's F-16 cleared to the active runway at Andrews Air Force Base for takeoff when they knew the plane was unarmed?

I write it off to stupidity.

 

[Adonia]

Present credible facts and change my mind. Most of the "facts" used by the conspiracy crowd are easily disproven.

I just have one question. With all the video cameras on the grounds of the Pentagon, why wasn't any video released of the plane hitting the building?

 

[TCassidy]

I just have one question. With all the video cameras on the grounds of the Pentagon, why wasn't any video released of the plane hitting the building?

The plane was traveling at over 500 feet per second. A high quality security camera has a 1/10 of a second reaction time to send a frame of a picture. In that time the plane moved over 50 feet. All you see on the screen or on the video recording is a slight blur. The background still lingers for that same time so even the blur seems to be transparent and you can still see what is behind the object being recorded.

The still photo capture option on the video camera takes a still shot once every 1/2 second. In that time the plane moved forward 200 feet. A Boeing 757 is 155 feet long. You do the math.

The reason the video was not released earlier was that it was part of the investigation into convicted plotter for al-Qaeda, Zacarias Moussaoui. As evidence it could not be released until the trial was over. No great tin foil hat conspiracy, just our criminal justice system at work. "The wheels of justice grind slowly."

 

[rsr]

He did not address the burning issue of who killed cock robin, either, so he must be guilty of a cover up.

He didn't mention the grassy knoll either, so he must be part of the conspiracy to kill Kennedy.

I will try to make this easy. Planes brought down the WTC buildings. The planes were not well enough tracked to alert ATC of the problem until it was too late. The ADIZ Ready planes were too late being launched and too far away to engage the hijacked planes. What he did was raise the roof on why our ATC system is so over loaded that we can't keep decent track of two B757s and 2 B767s, and why our ADIZ Ready planes took so long to get on station.

Come on, Doc, now you're just talking crazy.