Katarina Von Bora
Active Member
Agree completely. Knowing God should be a staple for Christians.
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I Need Help Understanding if I did the Wrong Thing
- Thread starter Steven Yeadon
- Start date
Agree completely. Knowing God should be a staple for Christians.
The problem with the OP is its focus. It does not consider that God has used men who were theologically opposed. God used Calvin and Luther, Finney and Edwards, Whitefield and Wesley, Graham and Piper. Yet NONE of these men hold the exact same theology. The impact of these men resulted not from themselves but from God.
I guess the issue I am having right now is that my conscience felt renewed and I had great inner peace when I woke up today, and it persisted all day. I also moved back to living life instead of feeling in a funk all the time. My prayer life also feels much better. I now realize that I had seared my conscience by not rejecting false teachers and being very judging of other believers (1 Corinthians 5:12-13). At the very least for my conscience's sake I am and must be an isolated but at-peace Christian.
Katarina Von Bora
Active Member
The difference is I hate going it alone and really don't want to. I feel I have no choice for now, but I must visit churches on Sundays to see if I can find one that I feel is biblical. I will go it alone if I absolutely have to, though. I also abide by Proverbs' instruction to not trust my own judgment as wise by going to online Christian forums as a kind of public square to debate issues of great importance. I do so on a fairly continual basis.
Now, it's not that I hate church and never want to go, that is a sin. Instead, it's more like I want a spiritual family very deeply, but I cannot find one at this point in time. I must go searching for a church I can happily join. However, having gone to seminary, I know that MDiv-carrying, seminary-trained pastors and myself will most likely never see eye-to-eye.
It seems Scripture presents the local church as a very organic body (edification, correction, even compromise) while always presenting a Christian as a functioning part of such an imperfect people. This leads me to believe a Christian who is not also a member of a church is disobedient to the extent he or she has no basis to criticize others who are at least trying to be faithful in the basic and fundamental aspect of church membership. What exactly is your criteria for a biblical church?
I heard a minister respond to a member, to made a comment on a sermon he just delivered after church... Preacher he said, I didn't get a thing out of your sermon?... The preacher said well maybe you didn't bring anything to get it with?... Steven... What is your motivation for going to church?... Mine is to serve God and Jesus Christ alone... Looks to me like you don't want to fit into a church you want the church to fit into you... If you are so judgmental about the church you will never fit into anyone... Is it any wonder you are still looking... Nobody on here is perfect and it only goes to say there is no perfect church... You keep complaining why you can't go to this church or that church... Brethren on here, some have been like me, have been in church all our lives and we know the excuses, and God does too... Get off your duff and find a church or be satisfied with the one you now attend?... Which one is that?... The Church of Steven... Membership 1... Brother Glen
Katarina Von Bora
Active Member
Consider:
1 Corinthians 3:3King James Version (KJV)
3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
Ephesians 4:29King James Version (KJV)
29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
James 1:26King James Version (KJV)
26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
Colossians 4:5-6English Standard Version (ESV)
5 Walk in wisdom toward outsiders, making the best use of the time. 6 Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer each person.
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Try a Primitive Baptist Church. They are not seminary trained. However they are Doctrines of Grace oriented. There is a very deep orientation towards understanding God as well as our place in Gods kingdom. Now it may not be your place of worship but you would have to admit, the Primitive Baptists are not “same old, same old.”
But whatever you do Steve, keep Christ as your heart. I don’t know what more to tell you. For me anyway, Baptists will always best represent a biblically striving approach to Christianity....and going back to the Bible provides me solice. Therefore I personally am not interested in Church theatrical performances...hymns and prayer and bible study are sufficient. Raising kids up to be good and decent Christians is also a priority for me and the Primitive Baptists do a good job in that. Lastly, sharing the gospel of Christ is very important, though you might have heard contrary reports. When I was struggling with my own understanding, it was the Primitives who came to me and patiently answered my questions and conserns...and they never ever judged me.
Now reading this, you might think I’m completely satisfied with them...well I am not. Sometimes I question doctrine and practice, but bottom line here is what I know. A Christian must always grow, always ask questions, and never be complacent. So continue to search....continue to seek Gods will in your life. As long as He is the center post of your life, you will be comforted by His grace.
God bless you in your trip!
Come on Glen, stop being so accusatory. This guy has possibly experienced “bad religion” and is trying to work his way through it. And here is what he needs to know...that there are people out there struggling ,just like him, to know God and love God and love his creation. But nobody here on this earth is perfect...we all make mistakes, all take stances etc. cut the guy some slackI heard a minister respond to a member, to made a comment on a sermon he just delivered after church... Preacher he said, I didn't get a thing out of your sermon?... The preacher said well maybe you didn't bring anything to get it with?... Steven... What is your motivation for going to church?... Mine is to serve God and Jesus Christ alone... Looks to me like you don't want to fit into a church you want the church to fit into you... If you are so judgmental about the church you will never fit into anyone... Is it any wonder you are still looking... Nobody on here is perfect and it only goes to say there is no perfect church... You keep complaining why you can't go to this church or that church... Brethren on here, some have been like me, have been in church all our lives and we know the excuses, and God does too... Get off your duff and find a church or be satisfied with the one you now attend?... Which one is that?... The Church of Steven... Membership 1... Brother Glen
For the sake of process of elimination, let’s make some lists... and I will start with some of my own findings:
1. Pedofile laden church ie they allowed this behavior to exist at the cost of distorting and destroying
lives of congragents.
2. Churches with transgender bathrooms...again, acceptance of queer behavior for all to see.
3. Catholic doctrine styled services
4. Perverted staff and those who wantonly break the 10 commandments, use congregants etc
5. Dictatorial rule, unloving lording over congregants, taking advantage of them in order to enrich themselves
How’s that for a beginning...and then you wonder why people are Church adverse!
Yes, there are many unbiblical "churches" out there. I could add:
1. False works-based gospel
2. False anti-works gospel
3. The Professionalization of the ministry
4. Legalistic churches that seek to place the believer "under the Law" rather than fulfilling the law "in Christ"
5. Acceptance of sin within the congregation as normal
6. Catering to the culture
I was wondering what exactly was @Steven Yeadon 's criteria of a biblical church (one that he would consider attending).
FYI, do you know there is absolutely zero SBC in my area of NW New Jersey. So why hasn't the SBC, who are so proud of the fact that they are active mission field orientated, doing something about it? But maybe its all for the best....Ive seen an uptick in Calvary Chapel Churches which do expository preaching & Believers Baptism.
But lets just say for a moment Jon that this is all he finds(your list & mine)....is he supposed to belong to these "Unbiblical Churches?"
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As far as the SBC, they have moved to missions by planting more SBC churches in areas they are absent. I have mixed feelings about this.
I guess it depends on what exactly he finds. If there are no Christian churches then I suppose the only alternative is to try and find Christians with whom to worship. I'm really not sure which is more dangerous - overt false churches or nominal Christianity.
Overt false churches.....for obvious reasons.
1. They are false and so misrepresent Christ
2. They lead people into sin....on purpose.
3. They disorientate others.
4. They could possibly send a person to hell.
5. All in all, they damage true churches, destroy families, destroy lives, amputate the spirit,
If you have ever had to pick up the pieces, you would have clear understanding of the destruction wrought by a false church.
I agree, and I am not suggesting one attend a false church for lack of a church. I'm just wondering what the criteria is that @Steven Yeadon is using.
I know, Im just getting worked up from my own personal struggles. Sorry for unloading on you.
He seems to be looking for an absolutely perfect church. One worthy of having him attend.
I'm not trying too... You know I grew up in the Primitive Baptist Church and sometimes a brother looking out for my welfare would give me a quick kick in the seat of the pants... Sometimes it was private and sometimes it came from the pulpit... But it always did me good in one way or another if I listened and acted on the counsel given... EWF I have another friend of mine who has been a preacher over 60 years and I listen to his sermons and read his writings and he has good counsel... He talks about one having a pity party... I have walked the walk and talked the talk and have been around the block... Steven is a young man and sometime a little tough love in my opinion doesn't hurt and if I didn't care for the young brother I wouldn't even bother... Many brethren on here speak from experience and have been in the trenches... Sometime a jumpstart is just what a wandering brother needs... Brother Glen
I'm not trying too... You know I grew up in the Primitive Baptist Church and sometimes a brother looking out for my welfare would give me a quick kick in the seat of the pants... Sometimes it was private and sometimes it came from the pulpit... But it always did me good in one way or another if I listened and acted on the counsel given... EWF I have another friend of mine who has been a preacher over 60 years and I listen to his sermons and read his writings and he has good counsel... He talks about one having a pity party... I have walked the walk and talked the talk and have been around the block... Steven is a young man and sometime a little tough love in my opinion doesn't hurt and if I didn't care for the young brother I wouldn't even bother... Many brethren on here speak from experience and have been in the trenches... Sometime a jumpstart is just what a wandering brother needs... Brother Glen
Glen, what do you really know about the guy? A kick in the arse might be just what the doctor ordered....or it may do irreparable damage to someone coming off a deep depression. There was one guy in here a few years ago who was severely manic depressive......some critiqued him & the bottom line is he went off and killed himself. I had another friend who was a lovable, gentle & fun loving guy & close to a member of our family as you could get.....bottom line he hung himself. We were all shocked & saddened by Franks passing.
Look, I know your heart is in the right place ....you have been a good friend to me & so I want to be as gracious as I can be to you & to Steven. But we really know very little about the guy. So please tread lightly.